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| Thread: A complaint on linguistic dissonance |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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DagothGares
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posted July 23, 2009 12:03 AM |
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mvassilev
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posted July 23, 2009 12:03 AM |
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Who's the native English speaker here?
That's right - neither of us! 
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TheDeath
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posted July 23, 2009 12:20 AM |
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It only applies to creators of written works, though - books, tax plans, programmes, etc.
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the maker of anything
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Cepheus
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posted July 23, 2009 12:36 AM |
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Quote:
Who's the native English speaker here?
That's right - neither of us!
Upper hand ftw 
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Lord_Woock
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posted July 23, 2009 12:36 AM |
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No. Author stands on it's own just like writer, composer, etc.
In coversational (American) English, author always means a writer, and specifically a writer of long works like a book. A journalist is a writer, but would simply be called a journalist or writer, not an author. A poet might also be called a writer, but even if they published a lengthy 1000 page book of poetry they would still be called a poet, not an author.
There you go. Colloquial speech tends to accept without blinking an eye phrases that don't make sense when you apply common sense or actual definitions, like "I could care less" used to say "I don't care at all" or "the match was all but over" to say "the match was over". If I point out a community where people say "potato" instead of "I don't know", that doesn't prove that "potato" = "I don't know".
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mvassilev
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posted July 23, 2009 12:47 AM |
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Death:
The dictionary may say that. But I have neither heard nor read it used to refer to a creator of a non-written work.
Woock:
Incidentally, "I could care less" makes me RAGE. It doesn't even make sense.
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Binabik
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posted July 23, 2009 12:52 AM |
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If I point out a community where people say "potato" instead of "I don't know", that doesn't prove that "potato" = "I don't know".
Yes it does. For that community it does anyway. Dictionaries aren't the "law" that we must adhere to. It's the other way around. The dictionary must adhere to language as used. Language is created by the people and evolves through the people. Dictionaries and other language references merely document it. It's also fairly common for dictionaries to be wrong.
Language evolves rapidly. You can watch it happen over the years. Eventually the reference books are edited to reflect those changes. Language scholars formalize the language, but they don't create it. This tends to somewhat stabilize the evolution process, but it doesn't stop it.
If you think about it, it must be this way. If dictionaries were the "law", then language could never evolve, unless one day the scholars, on a whim, suddenly decided a word no longer means xxxx, it now means yyyy. But that's not what happens.
So, is the word "uber" in the dictionaries yet? If it's not in the dictionaries, does that mean it's not a word? If the word uber continues to be used, it will eventually appear in dictionaries.
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blizzardboy
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posted July 23, 2009 12:52 AM |
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Quote:
Death:
The dictionary may say that. But I have neither heard nor read it used to refer to a creator of a non-written work.
Ur a non-written work.
@Binabik: Thanks for typing that so I didn't have to. The people are the authority of language. Dictionaries and grammar books report on how people talk and what things mean, they don't establish it.
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DagothGares
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posted July 23, 2009 12:56 AM |
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Binabik, shat ap...
they already included the word "muggle" in the oxford dictionary
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Binabik
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posted July 23, 2009 12:59 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 01:00, 23 Jul 2009.
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I could care less = I couldn't care less.
That phrase is commonly used where I live. In this area, it's much more common than other parts of the country for words to be informally shortened. The last part of words just get cut off.
We also use LOTS of informal contractions around here. These are not limited to this area, but some very common examples are "gonna", "wanna", "lemme", etc. Phonetically that's how we say it.
edit: lol, I don't even know what the word "muggle" means. I don't think I've heard it before.
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DagothGares
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posted July 23, 2009 01:02 AM |
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It's a harry potter-word... WHY?
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Binabik
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posted July 23, 2009 01:18 AM |
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This thread reminds me of an English class I took. It was a college level composition class. On the first day of class the teacher looked out at us as he held the text book up. He slammed it down on his desk then loudly and emphatically declared "THERE ARE NO RULES TO ENGLISH."
Of course what he meant is that the idea of language is to communicate. We have a great deal of leeway in how we do that, as long as we are understood. It's this variation in style that gives language and written words color and makes it interesting. Strict formal adherence to a rigid set of rules is the equivilent to a monotone speaking voice.
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TheDeath
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posted July 23, 2009 01:20 AM |
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"THERE ARE NO RULES TO ENGLISH."
You should have asked him what he is employed for, then.
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DagothGares
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posted July 23, 2009 01:25 AM |
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art, no doubt
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Binabik
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posted July 23, 2009 01:29 AM |
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It was his first day as a college teacher. His job was to make "suggestions" on how to better communicate. I really don't remember how he graded our work. I think he used a red pencil to make his suggestions, then counted the suggestions to determine the grade.
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mvassilev
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posted July 23, 2009 02:07 AM |
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You should have asked him what he is employed for, then.
He's a liberal arts professor, so he's employed for the lulz.
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Rarensu
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posted July 23, 2009 08:41 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 08:49, 23 Jul 2009.
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Native English speaker here to clear up Writer VS Author.
A writer is someone who writes. If you stop writing, you stop being a writer. If you don't make a living by selling what you write, you're still a writer.
An author is someone who is making a living by selling something that (s)he already writer. If you stop selling your book, you stop being an author. If you stop writing new stuff, you're still an author.
~Examples~
My friends at school are Writers. Almost every week they write something new. However, they have never made a penny on any of it. They are not Authors.
JK Rowling is an Author. She doesn't write books. She wrote books, so she was a Writer, but then she stopped. She hired a publishing agency to print her books. Now she goes around doing interviews and book signings. She makes a lot of money doing theses things and therefore she is an Author.
George RR Martin is both an Author and a Writer. He wrote books, and is selling them for a living. He also continues to write books.
PS "linguistic dissonance" means some concept is expressed radically differently in two languages and is thus very hard to translate from one to another.
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Lord_Woock
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posted July 23, 2009 10:39 AM |
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Quote:
Native English speaker here to clear up Writer VS Author.
A writer is someone who writes. If you stop writing, you stop being a writer. If you don't make a living by selling what you write, you're still a writer.
An author is someone who is making a living by selling something that (s)he already writer. If you stop selling your book, you stop being an author. If you stop writing new stuff, you're still an author.
~Examples~
My friends at school are Writers. Almost every week they write something new. However, they have never made a penny on any of it. They are not Authors.
JK Rowling is an Author. She doesn't write books. She wrote books, so she was a Writer, but then she stopped. She hired a publishing agency to print her books. Now she goes around doing interviews and book signings. She makes a lot of money doing theses things and therefore she is an Author.
George RR Martin is both an Author and a Writer. He wrote books, and is selling them for a living. He also continues to write books.
Okay, a third, wildly different use of the word. I'm gonna start pulling hairs.
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PS "linguistic dissonance" means some concept is expressed radically differently in two languages and is thus very hard to translate from one to another.
Eh, I just came up with the phrase to express "mutually exclusive opinions regarding a language" or something to that effect. If the phrase has an actual, scientific meaning other than the one I intended, then I apologize.
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Yolk and God bless.
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 23, 2009 10:12 PM |
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My fave (new word!) case of linguistic dissonance is the word "decimate". All the dictionary definitions say "one tenth is removed." I've only heard that used that way once in my life though. 99% of the time it's used when trying to convey "a tiny fraction is left after most were eliminated."
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xerdux
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posted July 23, 2009 10:14 PM |
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What? Decimate means the same thing as devour.
I have learnt that from WoW actually xD
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