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| Thread: A complaint on linguistic dissonance |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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friendofgunnar
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posted July 23, 2009 10:22 PM |
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Quote:
What? Decimate means the same thing as devour.
I have learnt that from WoW actually xD
you mean as in, "It's time to decimate some donuts."? 
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DagothGares
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posted July 23, 2009 10:30 PM |
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The word "decimate" comes from latin and it meant to kill every tenth person in a company. This was usually down when the company acted cowardly. You can see the latin word for "ten" in it "decem".
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Binabik
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posted July 24, 2009 12:26 AM |
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Wook, it might help if you could put the question in context. One problem is that the word is slightly vague. The vast majority of the time ( 98.627% ) it refers to the writer of a book. Yes, there are some exceptions, but that can cause confusion. It would normally be assumed it meant "writer of a book" unless the context made it clear that it refers to something else.
It's one of those things in language when the context can make a subtle difference. It's difficult to explain those subtleties, and as you've seen, even native English speakers don't all agree.
First, "author" can be a noun or a verb, although most of the time it's a noun. As a verb, it is usually used in the past tense. It's not often used as a verb, and I would consider the verbal usage as somewhat formal.
He authored a book. <=== somewhat formal and precise
He wrote a book. <==== more casual and FAR more common
He will author a book. <=== correct and easily understood, but sounds very formal and kind of weird
From the Merriam-Webster definition
1 a: one that originates or creates
To get nit-picky to illustrate a subtlety:
I can write something by simply copying it from somewhere else. In this case I did not author it. I wrote the words, but was not the originator or creator of them.
I don't agree with much of what Rarensu said, but maybe this is part of what he's getting at.
If you pick up a guitar and play it once, would you call yourself a guitarist? Probably not. What if you played it 20 times or 50 times? At what point do you become a guitarist? The answer is not exact, but there is a strong implication that a guitarist is someone who plays guitar on a regular basis and has a certain proficiency at it.
Regarding what Rarensu said about "making a living". I don't think making a living makes a difference. But consider the implication that to be a guitarist, gymnast, barber or author you perform the task on a regular basis with some proficiency. While you might casually play a guitar 10-20 times without being called a guitarist, how many people would write 10-20 full length books unless they got paid for it? Probably not too many. While making a living might not be a requirement for being an author, you could derive that implication.
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Rarensu
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posted July 24, 2009 03:31 AM |
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Edited by Rarensu at 03:42, 24 Jul 2009.
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A Brief History of English Vocabulary
In around 500 AD, the Angles and the Saxons settled the Isles of great Britain. They spoke a language which was Germanic in nature. Their language, once isolated from the other languages of northern Europe, slowly drifted away and became Old English.
In 1066, the Norman French invaded Britain and defeated the English. They established a new nobility of Norman blood and forced the English into subservience. English servants learned French words in order understand their French masters. English scholars learned French for purposes of writing and debate. Eventually English became so saturated with French vocabulary that peasants began using it on a daily basis. The Norman Conquerors were eventually absorbed into the English bloodline and English was restored as the dominant language of England, but it retained the supplemental French vocabulary as a new permanent addition to the language.
Modern English has two nearly complete vocabularies - one made up of words inherited from the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, and one made up of words borrowed from the Norman French. A word in one family usually has a synonym in the other family. Whenever an Anglophone needs to express a concept, he has a choice to make: use the Germanic word or the French word? The Germanic word almost always sound more casual and the French word almost always sounds more formal. A native speaker will usually make this choice subconsciously, and so we don't even notice that we made the choice at all.
Here are some examples.
(German / French)
Build / Construct
Break / Destroy
Speak / Discuss
Think / Consider
Hungry / Famished
Small / Minuscule
Wall / Fortification
Swine / Pork
Knife / Dagger
Die / Perish
Bloom / Flourish
Good / Beneficial
Lucky / Fortunate
Understand / Comprehend
Willing / Voluntary
Writer / Author
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angelito
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posted July 24, 2009 10:43 AM |
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(German / French) (german/german)
Build / Construct (bauen / konstruieren)
Break / Destroy (brechen / zerstören)
Speak / Discuss (sprechen / diskutieren)
Think / Consider (denken / erwägen)
Hungry / Famished (hungrig / ausgehungert)
Small / Minuscule (klein / winzig)
Wall / Fortification (Mauer / Befestigung)
Swine / Pork (Schwein / Schweinefleisch)
Knife / Dagger (Messer / Dolch)
Die / Perish (Sterben / umkommen)
Bloom / Flourish (blühen / gedeihen)
Good / Beneficial (gut / vorteilhaft)
Lucky / Fortunate (glücklich / glücklich) (first: being lucky winning something; second: being happy)
Understand / Comprehend (verstehen / nachvollziehen)
Willing / Voluntary (gewillt / freiwillig)
Writer / Author (Schreiber / Autor/Verfasser)
In german, we have words for both (and even more) meanings.
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DagothGares
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posted July 24, 2009 10:57 AM |
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Angelito, after diskutieren the words who come from French don't look like the German ones at all...
Or do you see a similarity between pork and schweinefleisch...
I mean, the French say: "porc" which looks a bit more like it 
I think rarensu was talking aout the words that were derived from the languages. And I think he has a point, because French was the language of nobility in medieval England.
The words that both German and French have in common have both latin roots to explain why some are alike. Though, I suppose the Germans were never really taken over by the Romans, I think the constant trading and warring would have had at least some influence on their culture...
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angelito
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posted July 24, 2009 11:05 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 11:06, 24 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Angelito, after diskutieren the words who come from French don't look like the German ones at all...
This is what I wanted to express (but failed ) Most of the comparisons he did are just wrong, because the words do not have the same meaning!
For example:
Small = klein (little...like a dwarf)
Minuscule = winzig (very very small...like a fly)
hungry = hungrig (I did not have breakfast, and now, at 12 o`clock noon, I am very hungry)
famished = ausgehungert (2 shipwreck survivors were found after 2 weeks. They have not eaten for the whole time..they are completely famished)
good = gut (the weathher is good today)
beneficial = vorteilhaft ("has advantages")
Speak = sprechen = talk
discuss = diskutieren = debate
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Corribus
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posted July 24, 2009 03:06 PM |
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@Angelito
Quote:
Most of the comparisons he [Rarensu] did are just wrong, because the words do not have the same meaning!
Agreed. I don't see what "formality" has to do with anything. For instance, pork is not a more "formal" version of swine. They have two completely different meanings.
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Binabik
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posted July 24, 2009 07:50 PM |
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Speak = sprechen = talk
discuss = diskutieren = debate
Not really correct for the English words
Speak, talk, discuss and debate are 4 different words. Of those four words, talk and discuss are the most closely related and can usually be used as synonyms. (the difference is subtle, and discuss is a little more formal)
Sprechen sie Deutsch
Do you speak English
You would NEVER say "Do you talk English?".
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Vangelis21
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posted July 24, 2009 08:01 PM |
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sorry if this had been answered but i thought of trying to help. just think that words on their own are just letters combined. but they were created by people in order to convey a message. therefore a word means what WE like it to mean. the word author as many other words started by meaning something specific but after the years passed the original meaning changed to comfort us. i hope it helps
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TheDeath
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posted July 24, 2009 08:04 PM |
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Quote:
You would NEVER say "Do you talk English?".
Why not? I thought english had no rules
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mvassilev
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posted July 24, 2009 08:10 PM |
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They have similar meanings. The words of Germanic origin are generally "simpler" than those of Romance origin.
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angelito
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posted July 24, 2009 09:05 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 21:13, 24 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Speak = sprechen = talk
discuss = diskutieren = debate
Not really correct for the English words
Speak, talk, discuss and debate are 4 different words. Of those four words, talk and discuss are the most closely related and can usually be used as synonyms. (the difference is subtle, and discuss is a little more formal)
Sprechen sie Deutsch
Do you speak English
You would NEVER say "Do you talk English?".
My intention was "the other way around".
Speak and talk BOTH are translated with "sprechen" in german.
While discuss and debate can both be translated with "diskutieren"
edit:
As far as I know, you call a little conversation about nothing special a "smalltalk" (At least in german it is used like that), and this refers mostly to 2 persons who speak, not debate or discuss.
Or is this different in english?
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Corribus
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posted July 24, 2009 09:16 PM |
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Quote:
As far as I know, you call a little conversation about nothing special a "smalltalk" (At least in german it is used like that), and this refers mostly to 2 persons who speak, not debate or discuss.Or is this different in english?
Smalltalk is the same as "chitchat". Meaning, speaking about nothing of great importance. For instance, if you go into a meeting with your boss, before you start talking about important work-related stuff, you might talk for a little bit about what you did over the weekend, how are the kids, what your latest golf score was, etc. This is "smalltalk".
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angelito
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posted July 24, 2009 09:19 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 21:21, 24 Jul 2009.
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Exactly...it is speaking...but not debating or discuss, right?
(I am asking coz Binabik said talk and discuss are mostly related, and this made me wonder a bit...)
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Corribus
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posted July 24, 2009 09:31 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 21:34, 24 Jul 2009.
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Quote:
Exactly...it is speaking...but not debating or discuss, right?
(I am asking coz Binabik said talk and discuss are mostly related, and this made me wonder a bit...)
Well it's certainly not debating. It could be discussing. Discussing the weather, for instance, would be smalltalk.
Difference between talking and discussing is subtle:
Talking about the weather: means only that people were having a conversation and the weather was the topic.
Discussing the weather: means additionally that the people involved were expressing their specific opinions about the topic and analyzing the content of those opinions. (Was it nice, why was it nice, etc.)
However, it can still be smalltalk even if it is discussion. It's just not a really serious discussion.
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Rarensu
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posted July 25, 2009 07:24 AM |
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I list a dozen and a half examples, and two of them turn out to be bad.
OH WELL.
Modern German is not Old English. Modern French is not Old Norman. Modern English is certainly none of these. Exceptions are bound to have crept from over time. This does not change the fact that a historic trend exists.
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A Proponent of Spelling, Grammar, Punctuation, and Courtesy.
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DagothGares
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posted July 25, 2009 08:48 AM |
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Quote:
Modern German is not Old English. Modern French is not Old Norman. Modern English is certainly none of these
Indeed, in fact, modern German originates from East-Nether-Frankish
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angelito
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posted July 25, 2009 12:37 PM |
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Quote:
I list a dozen and a half examples, and two of them turn out to be bad.
Not really...
2 or 3 of them seem to be accurate (willing/understanding/and maybe die). ALL others are not correct..
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DagothGares
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posted July 25, 2009 12:44 PM |
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I thought that to die was sterben in German...
Of course, this is an indirect question
What form would die come from?
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