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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 08:40 AM |
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How is it relevant in any way what people in other countries think of their health care system?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 09:33 AM |
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Is there any other relevant opinion?
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 09:37 AM |
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Yea, the people who have to live with it and pay for it.
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 08:37 PM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 20:41, 22 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
Yea, the people who have to live with it and pay for it.
In other words the countries that have it?
Elodin
Quote:
I am addressing your statments, not calling you names. If I criticize your statments I am not attacking you.
Very well, we'll agree to disagree. I'd say your statements about not caring for illegal immigrants can be taken by some as being racist, but that's just an opinion about a statement.
Let's just get back to the important issues at hand.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted August 22, 2009 09:36 PM |
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Quote:
Elodin
Quote:
I am addressing your statments, not calling you names. If I criticize your statments I am not attacking you.
Very well, we'll agree to disagree. I'd say your statements about not caring for illegal immigrants can be taken by some as being racist, but that's just an opinion about a statement.
Let's just get back to the important issues at hand.
I never said I didn't care for illegal immigrants. I never said illegal immigrants should not be given life saving medical care. They should. But they should not receive other types of medical care for free when they are in the US illegally. I don't care what color a person is if he is illegally in a country he is not entitled to benefits from that country.
When a person is in a country illegally he should be deported. He is a lawbreaker.
There is no possible way that opinion in illegal immigration or health care for them can be called racist.
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 10:20 PM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 01:05, 23 Aug 2009.
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I didn't even say I was disagreeing with you, reread my statement, I was saying that some people see it that way =p
I apologize that you had interpreted my comments as being racist, that was not the perception I had intended to present. Now let's get this topic back to the proper subject at hand ^_^
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2009 03:01 PM |
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Governments are not needed, they are on the way of true development. All governments do is select elites who steal money from the slaves that go to work all day.
No decision should be let on opinion (human) to make it. It's like using knowledge in literature to solve a mathematical problem... it makes no sense...
Decisions should be arrived at - you have a problem, you have all the info about it - you give it to a computer and it gives you the correct answer - there you go - no government involved. Everyone that knows something about the related science behind the solving of the problem could enter their info and based on the available resources the best solution is put to action, without corruption
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted August 28, 2009 04:58 PM |
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Again, it's not that simple. Who enters the info and how, who decides what will be done based on what the computer projects, who is in charge of repairing and maintaining the computer, if you automatize all diplomacy and inner management then what if the computer reaches an error; or what if someone sabotages it on purpose...
What I've learned from here is that if someone would be doing the exploiting today, it would be corporate rulers. The government lives in a symbiosis with them - without law enforcement from courts, contracts and other cornerstones of capitalism wouldn't be able to work; and yet the government theoretically protects the rights of little men and keeps the profit machine in check - as opposed to the idea of anarcho-capitalism where companies would basically control everyone's lives. In theory.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted August 28, 2009 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
Decisions should be arrived at - you have a problem, you have all the info about it - you give it to a computer and it gives you the correct answer - there you go - no government involved.
That's funny, because there is more than 1 human on this planet 
You know, humans have a tendency to disagree with each other.
So what solution should the computer put out?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 28, 2009 07:24 PM |
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Quote:
What I've learned from here is that if someone would be doing the exploiting today, it would be corporate rulers. The government lives in a symbiosis with them - without law enforcement from courts, contracts and other cornerstones of capitalism wouldn't be able to work; and yet the government theoretically protects the rights of little men and keeps the profit machine in check - as opposed to the idea of anarcho-capitalism where companies would basically control everyone's lives. In theory.
Just look at modern China. Communist in name only, 100% free market with no regulation.
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baklava
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posted August 28, 2009 10:39 PM |
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The Chinese government seriously doesn't have any authority over Chinese companies?
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2009 12:31 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 00:34, 29 Aug 2009.
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The Chinese government seriously doesn't have any authority over Chinese companies?
The Chinese government takes bribes and lets them do whatever they want until they hurt enough people. (Tainted milk scandal, the what, 5 tainted lead toy recalls in the last 2 years?) Until then it will watch their backs. People who work in Chinese factories get no safety equipment and no coverage for their work related injuries. The medical industry is actually a full industry as well, fully privatized.
The Chinese government is an oppressive and brutal dictatorship, but it's a free market dictatorship reminiscent of some early industrial age european countries when it comes to workers rights and civil rights. Just with much more technology and a lot of Western sucker companies and countries waiting to pour money into it for the cheap to make stuff they don't expect to break because of corrupt factory heads replacing ingredients with cheaper ones.
The only socialized industry in china is police, and police to police the police to make sure their policing the way that makes the people that bribe them stay with impossible profits and any dissenters (like workers with black lung) get squished. Essentially it makes people like George Pullman and Henry Clay Flick look like normal people.
There is no legal protection for businesses from outside the country or for workers. It's despicable.
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Corribus
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The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted August 29, 2009 01:08 AM |
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Shyranis, we've had a few major food recalls here in the US within the last two years alone, and as little as 4 decades ago our own regulations governing quality food and drugs weren't much better than what the Chinese clearly have now. Isn't it just possible that the Chinese are simply a little behind us in the sophistication of their regulatory framework, and it's not due exclusively to some innate corruption and evilness on the part of the Chinese?
Just a thought.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2009 02:34 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 02:35, 29 Aug 2009.
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Shyranis, we've had a few major food recalls here in the US within the last two years alone, and as little as 4 decades ago our own regulations governing quality food and drugs weren't much better than what the Chinese clearly have now. Isn't it just possible that the Chinese are simply a little behind us in the sophistication of their regulatory framework, and it's not due exclusively to some innate corruption and evilness on the part of the Chinese?
Just a thought.
The Chinese government allows it to happen. "The Chinese" by the Chinese people aren't the ones committing the "evilness" you mentioned.
The fact is that the lead paint problems were due to the companies that manufacture the toys, electronics, etc for Western companies, despite being under contract to use specific materials in specific quantities under precise detail and nothing else, always seem to go "oops, the bottles have been getting thinner and thinner, sorry mister european cleaning product company with your bottles exploding in transit. "Oh, how did that lead get in the paint? Surely we didn't switch to a cheaper lead laden brand". "Exploding laptop batteries? Never heard of them." They have nobody to answer to but themselves, the companies from outside China are stuck with the recall tabs despite lining out specifics that are constantly ignored. As I mentioned, the government doesn't even do anything about it.
That's at least 200 years behind in regulatory progress.
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Corribus
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posted August 29, 2009 03:10 AM |
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Quote:
That's at least 200 years behind in regulatory progress.
Shyranis, you should check your FDA history.
US has no food and drug regulation at all until 1908, in response to the Jungle, which exposed the horrors of the US meat packing industry. Real (modern) regulatory authority didn't happen until The Food Drug and Cosmetic act of 1938 was passed, in part due to the sulfanilamide catastrophe, and the updated act in 1962 fixed a lot of serious problems that still remained. That's only 47 years ago, and there are still major lapses in enforcement, as evidenced by the recent peanut debacle.
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 29, 2009 03:19 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 03:22, 29 Aug 2009.
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I wasn't speaking strictly of the food industry.
edit: also when people say that all government regulations are bad, you kind of have to point out these flaws. Yes, even the shocking food problems that have happened in the US.
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mvassilev
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posted August 29, 2009 04:13 AM |
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Quote:
Just look at modern China. Communist in name only, 100% free market with no regulation.
...
No. China is far, far from being 100% free market.
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Eccentric Opinion
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 30, 2009 04:44 PM |
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Maybe more like 90% free market. Far more than any country in the West (USA included).
Anyway, factcheck debunked 26 common lies about the US healthcare bill.
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mvassilev
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posted August 30, 2009 05:02 PM |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 30, 2009 08:06 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:06, 30 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
But they should not receive other types of medical care for free when they are in the US illegally. I don't care what color a person is if he is illegally in a country he is not entitled to benefits from that country.
When a person is in a country illegally he should be deported. He is a lawbreaker..
That's how real christians speak
Lawbreakers don't get any help. Interesting statement for someone who should live like the bible tells him.
If Jesus would hear how you talk, your way to heaven would be closed forever, that's for sure.
You're nothing else but an impostor. And no, this is NOT an insult, this is just the conclusion of the way you post
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