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Chagoux
Hired Hero
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posted March 04, 2013 10:43 PM |
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Edited by Chagoux at 23:10, 04 Mar 2013.
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EDIT : Nevermind everything inexplicably works now =)
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 06, 2013 06:20 AM |
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Quote:
In 0.92 it is not recommended (or supported) to edit original info for heroes, creatures and so on. However we want to make it possible in following months.
Do you plan to convert original towns, monsters etc into mods? This would be very good.
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 06, 2013 07:21 AM |
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Original towns are already made partly as mods, but it's not that simple. SoD and its maps still expect to all the towns to be present, so it's not easy to remove them.
Also, we can't distribute towns as separate mods because they are still Ubisoft property.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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Slayer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 13, 2013 06:17 AM |
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Is VCMI compatible with other mods?
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meganix
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 15, 2013 02:59 PM |
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Edited by meganix at 15:01, 15 Mar 2013.
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I have think about how you can solve the "problem" with one hero with one huge army always win over a player which spreads his armies. You could add a new attribute (of course optional) to each creature. It will be called "mass".
Mass is defined how much a group is efficient in fighting in huge numbers. A pikemen could have "mass 1" because he use pike formation which is dependant on huge numbers. Crossbowmen could have "mass 3" because he needs to be in direct line to the enemies he wants to shoot
so in combat one creature can only damage the other in equivalent to their own mass, so If a Behemoth let's say have "mass 30" attacks 10 pikemen who have in total "10 mass" The Behemoth can only damage 1/3 of its full damage.
There could be an minimum in damaging like 1/5 of full damage so if a Behemoth goes up against 1 Pikemen, the pikemen would not survive anyway.
This means that an huge army can't just smack anything on it's path and a small specialized army with high exp can kill a much larger army (Especially if the small army gets healed) That means players has to spread his armies more and train more than 1 to 2 heroes. Of course it will be a whole another factor in Balancing
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 15, 2013 03:04 PM |
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VCMI will NOT modify original mechanics, apart from some bugfixes or additional options. What you propose is a whole new script that will have a huge impact on mechanics, whcih is not acceptable. VCMI has to maintain backward compatibility with all existing content, such as fine-tuned hardcore maps.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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meganix
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 15, 2013 11:43 PM |
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How difficult would be to implant something like this? I guess it's not easy
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 16, 2013 12:41 AM |
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Mega Nein to this idea. Also is false idea to think huge armies always win, it depends, fortunately, on many other factors, as spells, specialization, speed, immunities, mana, etc. In fact, the problem for me would be the opposite, how to code AI so it does not lose while having 10 more armies.
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Era II mods and utilities
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meganix
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 16, 2013 01:12 AM |
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Edited by meganix at 01:13, 16 Mar 2013.
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yes that is very true Your maps proves that. The idea was more to force people to spread out their armies and have multiplie strong heroes instead of one. Would It require very good knowledge to make such a script? I know it's very off topic so I will move furter discussing to another thread if it's not nearly impossible to do such a script..
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2013 06:25 AM |
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Quote:
Mega Nein to this idea. Also is false idea to think huge armies always win, it depends, fortunately, on many other factors, as spells, specialization, speed, immunities, mana, etc. In fact, the problem for me would be the opposite, how to code AI so it does not lose while having 10 more armies.
AI must learn to use Hit-n-Run at first.
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 16, 2013 01:26 PM |
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AI must learn to wait with his melee units if he has shooters and you have none. He must first weaken you with the shooters while you walk to the other end of battlefield, then engage in melee combat.
Right know he just attacks first with the fastest unit no matter what. Let's say I have Pegasi and Sharpshooters and I am facing a bunch of Zombies, the shooters can take them out before they reach me, so I don't lose any units, but if I choose autocombat, the AI will rush in with the Pegasi and I'll lose some. The AI of H5 is better about this, it waits.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 16, 2013 01:52 PM |
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This is easily fixable within resolve combat mod. Could add an option: quick combat version shooters, where all creatures on your side except shooters are given 0 speed.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 16, 2013 01:59 PM |
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Quote:
This is easily fixable within resolve combat mod. Could add an option: quick combat version shooters, where all creatures on your side except shooters are given 0 speed.
Sounds like a very good idea to use in battles where victory is guaranteed with shooters only, in longer battles you will need those units to be fast when they engage later on though.
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Fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2013 09:08 PM |
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Edited by Fnord at 21:33, 16 Mar 2013.
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(You better post a link to the other thread if you move it.) 
This would definitely not be to everyone's taste and for sure would have to be done by some optional script or mod. And as Salamandre already pointed out, getting the AI to understand this change and play properly is probably the biggest challenge.
You might also want to check out my "Command Points" script as another way to address the same issue:
Fnords WoG 3.59 Scripts
This script limits the number of troops that a single hero can take into battle. The main goal is to require players to spread out their army, rather than using the tried-and-true (but somewhat boring) "superhero" strategy.
Higher level heroes will be able to command more troops, but the limits make it necessary to diversify if you wish to field a larger army.
Each hero can command up to 2000 plus 3000 Command Points (3000 gold) worth of troops per hero level in battle. Exceeding this results in the excess troops departing.
A town without a defending hero or Fort can send 5,000 Command Points of troops into battle. If the town has a Fort, it can sent 10,000 points, a Citadel, 15,000 points, and a Castle, 20,000 points. If the town has a defending hero, the Fort/Citadel/Castle bonus is added to the defending hero's Command Point total.
Neutral armies and towns have no Command Point limits.
To see the active hero's Command Point limit and total Command Points of the hero's army at any time, right-click on the Sleep/Wake button. To see the Command Points for a town garrison or garrison hero, right-click on the garrison hero slot in the town screen.
Leadership reduces the Command Point value of troops by 10% per level of Leadership (i.e., 10%/20%/30%) for troops affected by morale only.
In other words, Undead and Elementals don't get this reduction bonus.
Necromancy reduces the Command Point value of Undead troops in the same way as Leadership (i.e., 10%/20%/30% for Undead troops only).
Air/Earth/Fire/Water Magic reduce the Command Point values of Elementals of the same element by 10%/20%/30%, e.g., Advanced Fire Magic reduces the Command Point cost of Fire and Energy Elementals by 20%.
Diplomacy increases a hero's Command Points by 150/300/500 per level.
Quote:
yes that is very true Your maps proves that. The idea was more to force people to spread out their armies and have multiplie strong heroes instead of one. Would It require very good knowledge to make such a script? I know it's very off topic so I will move furter discussing to another thread if it's not nearly impossible to do such a script..
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 16, 2013 09:19 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:21, 16 Mar 2013.
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Quote:
(EDIT: I clicked the insert Hyperlink option and typed this into the window but it didn't turn it into a link - what do I need to do to correct it?)
If you use apostrophe (') in hyperlink name they don't work.
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Fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 16, 2013 09:27 PM |
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Thanks, Artu! I'll fix that now.
Quote:
Quote:
(EDIT: I clicked the insert Hyperlink option and typed this into the window but it didn't turn it into a link - what do I need to do to correct it?)
If you use apostrophe (') in hyperlink name they don't work.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted March 16, 2013 10:19 PM |
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Quote:
I will move furter discussing to another thread if it's not nearly impossible to do such a script..
Why ruin Heroes 3 game with these perversions?
Classic rules are classic rules.
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Beware, modder! Maybe Macron1 is already benefitting from your work!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 17, 2013 01:01 AM |
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Quote:
The main goal is to require players to spread out their army, rather than using the tried-and-true (but somewhat boring) "superhero" strategy.
I don't disagree with the idea but I have a hard time to see how this can work. What is the purpose in a "regular" map? Expand. We need to expand in order to support financially more troops. While a noobie hero will see his commands points raise rather fast early game, at one point it will stop. I mean: getting from level 20 to 21 when you can command nothing more than a few troops-therefore you will will get experience accordingly to your army value vs enemy value- will be slow as hell, then expansion makes no more sense, and battles run the risk of becoming repetitive and limited. Such change require different map design, possible more rpg layout, but probably can not safely run on already made or random maps. I did not test yet, but does it take in consideration neutrals growth? Or we will be stuck after several months without material possibility to defeat anything larger than horde.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 17, 2013 02:23 AM |
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It can work on rather smaller maps where you don't get to level 20 and legions of neutrals.
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Fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2013 12:19 PM |
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That's a good point. I'm pretty sure I didn't code it to adjust the size of neutral armies, although that could of course be added. Or, as you say, a different map design, or at least smaller maps.
This script (along with several of the other "3.59 scripts" I wrote) only had very limiting testing, even by me. It was more of a concept script and definitely in a beta phase as far as balance-checking.
I also don't think the idea in general is appealing to all or even most players, because as much as we may yearn at times for a different strategy, when it comes down to it, we're all used to building up our armies and enjoy having a superhero with an unstoppable force. Therefore, I think it's primarily good as a variation when you want to try something a bit different.
Anyway, this is all off-topic for the VCMI thread. How do we get it moved?
Quote:
Quote:
The main goal is to require players to spread out their army, rather than using the tried-and-true (but somewhat boring) "superhero" strategy.
I don't disagree with the idea but I have a hard time to see how this can work. What is the purpose in a "regular" map? Expand. We need to expand in order to support financially more troops. While a noobie hero will see his commands points raise rather fast early game, at one point it will stop. I mean: getting from level 20 to 21 when you can command nothing more than a few troops-therefore you will will get experience accordingly to your army value vs enemy value- will be slow as hell, then expansion makes no more sense, and battles run the risk of becoming repetitive and limited. Such change require different map design, possible more rpg layout, but probably can not safely run on already made or random maps. I did not test yet, but does it take in consideration neutrals growth? Or we will be stuck after several months without material possibility to defeat anything larger than horde.
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