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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted August 17, 2009 06:46 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 18:50, 17 Aug 2009.
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Keep LEVEL 21 !!! At the very least!
And about the only other Balance issues I disagree with... is preventing Sylvan and Fortress for learning Dark... I understand Rain Frenzy from Sylvan is silly.. and the multiple attack rune/vamprism is silly... but without Dark... it makes beating Orcs extremely extremely hard! Cant some Brilliant Scripter ... script the sylvan spell shop to never offer Frenzy... and the Fortress spell shop to never offer vampirsm? That would be better balance then banning ALL dark spells from them 2 towns.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 17, 2009 07:35 PM |
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Considering that both tows can get light, destructive or summoning it is a good gamble already if you try shatter. Of course they can still get dark but at best they will have mass confusion/suffering. Frankly if I had orcs I'd fear more puppet/frenzy than vampirism.
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albolabris
Known Hero
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posted August 17, 2009 07:51 PM |
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Ok Elvin so leave the units and runes as they are. It's not so important because it is balanced already ( doesn't have to be perfect ) but i still think that Rakashas are and will be very deadly sometimes. Resistance on spell and they roll As for hitting them before they attack painfully, that depends on tactics mode. If you can't reach them than you can't do a lot about it ( only your shooters). She uses Dash and in the next 3 turns you must focus on her, else it can end very badly for you. Sometimes one multiple strike with luck gives you the battle.
Dangerous unit...
As for this:
Quote:
Normally I wouldn't have a problem with lvl 18 if not for two things:
- First it's a week 6 army strength by which time you are more likely to have lvl 21 than 18. Actually closer to 25 but that would be indeed too much on top of allowing the imbalanced absolute abilities. Lvl 18 I tend to have by end of week 2
- Secondly it's not nearly as much fun, many possible combinations.
Well. We fight wright? These are just battles. I understand your point of view but really for me this comparison is a bit out of sense. I know it's a simulation of ordinary game on map but still it has nothing to do with it. We can have populations from 10 weeks and fight with heroes on level 10. That depends on the Tournament or the Arena. Different armies and different levels lead to different battles. Ones are more focused one hero development and good spells combination ( higher levels ), the others more on tactical and precisive moves on the field of battle ( lower levels ). On 21 you are able to have all Skills at Ekspert level + couple abilities.
For example: having Ekspert Attack, Luck and Morale 8 Sylvan Dragons on lucky strike and multiple prismatic breath with morale at the end can win the battle almost in the first move. I know of course that Defense Skill is a must here and with good defense it would not be so painfull but it would still hurt a lot ( with favourites some units might die after one hit ). Same for the Luck on Spells and Swift Mind with Warlocks ( even if you waiste couple perks to obtain the swift mind ). One spell and we can start the rematch already. Don't think that anyone here likes that kind of battles espiecially when you die in that way. But ok. Let's try. 21 is really high
Level 18 at the end of week 2? On what circumstances?
Any RMG map on Heroic level I really doubt it's possible. Maybe Necro or Orcs with some luck, good conditions and choosed creeping starting Hero. Still, rare thing. I don't count Fix Type Map.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted August 17, 2009 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
I don't count Fix Type Map.
Well thats the problem... 99% of games played in TOH are on Fixed type maps. So no offense but your views are based on the Extreme Minority. Most players will want this tourny to have the feel of a real normal heroes game.. We already had a tourny called Arena that was like you are wanting..opposite of normal heroes game.... this tourny is designed to be like normal heroes.
@ Elvin...
Quote:
Each side has two magic shrines from level 1, 2 and 3, plus an arcane library.
Sylvan and fortress cannot learn dark from the library.
You said in your last post that they could get Dark?? Puppet and Frenzy is a must to seriously defend vs. Orcs.... SO which is true.. can they get Dark or cant they??
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 17, 2009 08:11 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 20:16, 17 Aug 2009.
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Talking about custom, more specifically toh maps. They allow for fast leveling as long as you are good at creeping with regular town level at 3.
And just about every battle I've played in a real game is about 22+ level More than needed? Possibly though it is realistic. And I'd say that more levels actually favour the magic factions because they require a lot of skills into spellcasting, 9 at the very least with exp magic, sorcery and enlightenment. But then you'd be getting more identical builds, only thing I do not like with lvl 21 is the introduction of swift mind.
Btw there's an oversight on my part, forgot to ask for people's msn. I'll start updating the second post with those I know but I'm missing the newcomers Free for the occasional duel these days but I'll soon have exams.
Edit:
@Jinxer
They can get dark but not high level since that is only accessible from library and you have no mercury. You'd be surprised how little dwarves or sylvan need dark in a non epic game. Maybe it's needed in genesis because armies grow like crazy but I assure you that I've often defeated orcs with destructive or light. In fact a simple mass slow/confusion can be enough to put them in disadvantage not to mention frenzy or puppet.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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albolabris
Known Hero
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posted August 17, 2009 08:32 PM |
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@Jinxer
On normal games you usually don't have almost all high level spells from one school in the 6th week. Here no problem on the first day. So don't tell me that it's normal heroes game because it's not and never will be. It's just raw battle. Tournament is called Duel. Duel is battle. Not normal heroes game. So no offense but your arguments don't convince me. I take part because battle is what i'm most interested in and in series 5 i find it as an extremely good piece of work from Nival. Whatever the level will be i will play. I just think that on lower levels battle are better and more fair. Agree or not.Cheers.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 17, 2009 08:40 PM |
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Respect, I too love H5 strategic potential. It is what keeps me coming back But about levels and army strength it's really a matter of taste, the map's earlier versions have passed through various stages and while this proved to be the more balanced few if any preferred the version with lvl 15 and week 4 army, or current level with week 5 army. Most just prefer more army and levels not necessarily a good or a bad thing.
Btw care for a duel? Msn is Water_Elementalist@hotmail.com
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted August 17, 2009 09:57 PM |
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One major difference between arena and real maps is that you cannot know what type of magic your opponent has chosen in the first one, while in real maps, you will generally know that precious information from garrisons. So orcs having to guess what types of magic to shatter, from so many great ones, would be put to disadvantage.
On top of that, Sylvan's Puppet might be even stronger than Necro's Puppet because of druids, so the battle would be a simple formality for Sylvan. In dwarfs case, the very hard to take down creatures, make Puppet/Frenzy a deadly tool against Orcs, only required actions being acting defensive, using ressurection rune and waiting for the Orcs to murder each other.
LE:
Btw, I consider un-shattered Mass Suffering, Endurance, Righteous Might, Haste, Slow, pretty on the same level with Puppet and Frenzy, so those extras are not really necesary.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted August 18, 2009 01:25 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 01:27, 18 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
@Jinxer
Quote:
On normal games you usually don't have almost all high level spells from one school in the 6th week.
Again you are speaking from experience with Random maps.. virtually all decent fixed maps end by week 5-6 lol... so ovcourse its EASY to have all Level 5 spells acquired by then.
Quote:
Here no problem on the first day. So don't tell me that it's normal heroes game because it's not and never will be.
And again.. no offense but sounds like you dont know what a NORMAL game is..especially if your counting Random Maps and UBI maps... I have played almost 200 TOH games... 99% of them on Fixed maps...
Quote:
It's just raw battle. Tournament is called Duel. Duel is battle. Not normal heroes game.
Infact.. you are correct that it is ONLY the battle part.. but its main purpose is to simulate what the battle conditions would be after a 6 week creeping.. So we are basically just removing the creeping and doing the battle conditions as they would be after we creeped.  Therefore.. the final battle would be just like a NORMAL Heroes Final Battle.
And just like you.. I can agree that I too am looking forward to playing in this tourny
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2009 07:11 AM |
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Quote:
Well thats the problem... 99% of games played in TOH are on Fixed type maps. So no offense but your views are based on the Extreme Minority.
Very wrong here ... Two current emperors are made by playing on random maps ... Don't think Infinitus, Willgefors, Vex, Camoes and others are extreme minority For sure our activity on TOH is a lot more that 1% ... I feel offended
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted August 18, 2009 07:25 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 11:00, 18 Aug 2009.
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Don't be. He's just trying to get a point across and exaggeration is a simple yet very effective way to show just how strongly you feel about it. I doubt he was being serious.
As for your dark issues Jinxer, I don't know wether you've played this map a few times or a lot (I have been with it since it's "birth"  ) but let me assure you that the experiences so far have shown that Dwarfs vs. Stronghold is by no means a onesided matchup simply because dwarfs don't have dark. Of course Dark makes it insultingly easy for Dwarfs but in the interest of balance I think we should avoid that.
And about the level issue albolabris I see your point and how you're not convinced by the "simulation" argument but I'd also like to tell you that over the almost one year existance of this map it's consistantly been balanced and tweeked etc. by Elvin and with the help of some of the ToH elite and 21 has proven to keep the equilibrium between the might and magic classes. Of course not always but in general it's all good. If it's not to your taste I can understand that but I'd simply like you to trust in the tremendous ammount of work that's been put in here so far. I'm sure you won't be disapointed.
And yeah considering I've already said so much here I guess I have to join.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2009 08:53 AM |
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You fell into your own trap, welcome Azagal
And of course you are the minority here infinitus, besides those everyone else has been playing custom. Didn't raise a matter of contribution because you are playing like crazy, no denying that
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2009 09:23 AM |
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Quote:
And of course you are the minority here infinitus
Minority yes, but not extreme and not 1% ...
This is only temporary Random realm make big progress on TOH this season... Work in progress 
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2009 10:00 AM |
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I have a feeling this is mostly because the people that played custom are getting inactive. You have done your best to promote random but it's still far from mainstream when it comes to toh.
Seeing as you became an emperor how about you show us what you are made of in this tournament?
____________
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2009 10:09 AM |
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Anytime on random map
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 18, 2009 10:10 AM |
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Well since the people who sent me Epic collection are giving me the run around I have ordered a copy of JUST ToTE. If this one does not work, I think I will have to find a wall to hit my head against. However, I think this tournament will be so much fun that I HAVE to try  . I am SOOOO looking forward to this.
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2009 10:17 AM |
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You'd better get a refund for the epic one.. And come on infinitus, I'm retired. Only reason I still play duels is because they take very little time compared to maps. I'm sure they wouldn't mess with your gaming schedule, how about that?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2009 10:49 AM |
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Thanks for invitation Elvin, but i enjoy full games style of play. For example in real game on random map "Silent stalker" skill sometime can win for you a game, but on duel map this skill is dead  etc ... I will wait patiently your come back. What you say game in Heroes 6 on random map ?
Gl@HF in your tournament ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted August 18, 2009 01:37 PM |
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RE-TIRED= TIRED ONCE MORE?
also latest experiments have shown that BAN is the word
brb punks
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2009 01:43 PM |
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Something like that But you must ask yourself one question.
Do you feel lucky punk?!
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