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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Might campaign on champion difficulty
Thread: Might campaign on champion difficulty
Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 21, 2009 09:13 PM
Edited by Ecoris at 21:15, 21 Aug 2009.

Might campaign on champion difficulty

I recently started playing the H4 campaigns. I have completed three of them so far at champion difficulty (nature, death and order). In general the first scenario was difficult, but from that point there were no real challenges.

But I can't defeat Screaming Tom. It seems impossible ever to gather an army that can match his.

Every week the dwellings (2x Berserker, 2x Centaur, 1x Nomad) generate in total:
19 Berserkers
9 Centaurs
3 Nomads
If I trade the wood and ore I get for gold I can buy these troops. Screaming Tom gets:
48 Pirates
26 Thieves
every week and his army starts out larger. In addition I will lose many troops claiming the dwellings and the shipyard and I may have to fight randomly generated armies each month.

Has anyone ever managed to beat this scenario at champion difficulty? My best idea is to wait for a long time (years even) and pick up some tactics skills with Waerjak. Long shot?
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 21, 2009 09:36 PM

I never had the skills do that either.

The start just seems too evil.
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 22, 2009 12:10 AM
Edited by Invictus at 03:51, 22 Aug 2009.

I've never tried it on Champion, but I think I might do that some time soon.

Your strategy of waiting years and developing tactics could eventually work.

Also, just thinking theoretically, what if you got order magic and the default spell you get is precision? lol. I think if that ever happens, your Centaurs would pwn the hell out of those guys.
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 22, 2009 03:49 AM
Edited by Invictus at 03:55, 22 Aug 2009.

Ok, I just tried it on Champion (didn't get to do so earlier because I wanted to complete all H4 and GS campaigns "quickly"). The problem I had is that by month 10, the AI showed up in my area with a huge army, like 200+ Ogre Magi, 500 Berserkers, 400 Harpies, lv 17 general and another lv 14 hero. The interesting thing is that the AI army took the shipyard and landed on the pirate island. For some reason, I couldn't get rid of the AI from the water, so basically I got screwed because his army was way larger than mine, and way more powerful than Tom's army. I tried reloading to an earlier save, and this time the AI showed up at month 9. At this point, I had 380 Berserkers, 300 Centaurs, and 65 nomads. The neutral army near the shipyard was still there, and while I could beat that easily, I couldn't beat both that and the one on the island, and plus I was screwed anyways because AI was in the area with a crapload of units.

The problem with waiting seems to be the AI. It just shows up randomly but eventually with a super strong army. I waited 10 months and the AI was there already. If you wait several years, the AI would have a thousand Ogre Magi. Of course, there is a degree of randomness to the AI's action, but I'm not sure if you can hang out for several years without getting hunted down.

Apart from the AI problem, if you wait long enough, it seems like you can roughly match Screaming Tom in terms of army strength, according to your numbers.

19 Berserkers, 3 Nomads, and 9 Centaurs equals to: 657 HP, 83-129 damage, 366 attack, 281 defense

48 pirates and 26 bandits equals to: 740 HP, 74-174 damage, 762 attack, 666 defense

However, berserkers attack twice, centaurs are ranged, nomads have first strike, and your troops have more speed/movement. Also, the AI is stupid so it can't deal with tactics such as retaliation absorption, and it would probably need to be 50-75% stronger than you to have a chance against your army (if this involved spells and high level heroes, it would probably need to be several times stronger than your force).
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted August 22, 2009 04:06 AM

Yooo you can do it :P

Screaming Tom should be the first on your hit list, at least it was for me, I only battled the centaurs to be able to recruit them, but not the nomads. You may not be able to do it from the first time, some luck in getting the right potion from the backpack and loading save games is needed. Abusing the saved games is also a possibility if you have a hard time but its possible to kill him with only a few or none.

So what I do actually is buying the berserkers, taking the free centaurs, battling the centaurs to buy more centaurs and get a bit of cash, conquer the ore and wood mines AND stealing the artifacts the skeletons guard(they wander in an area so there are turns when you can steal the artifacts without fighting them). After doing this I try to battle the pirates that guard the shipyard, if I have too many losses I load the game and wait a week before I try to defeat them again, so I repeat the process until I am pleased with the results (I am ok with losing some berserkers but not a single centaur). After you defeat them with acceptable losses you take all the resources on the way to Screaming Tom and repeat the process on him.

Remember to split your armies, specially the berserkers, having one berserker hit for retaliation and then the rest 99(for example) to hit for free is crucial strategy, there's no need to split the centaurs except for keeping the berserkers from running off. You also may restart the game if you didn't like the artifacts that were near the sceletons, I remember many games in Heroes III when I was forced to use such 'strategy'.

In case you play equilibris don't take this strategy into account. I would like to hear from someone if its possible to pass the map with the mod as I haven't done it either. I tried this strategy but cos of balance fixes it takes too much time and enemy heroes get pass the green border gate.

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 23, 2009 04:04 AM

So when you fight the army at the dock, what month/week is it? and how much troops do you have?
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted August 23, 2009 08:06 AM
Edited by TheUnknown at 08:22, 23 Aug 2009.

I killed him just now in month 2 week 4 day 5, started with 141 berserker and 91 centaur (one stack with 88 and three with 1) and I was left with 85 centaurs and 62 berserkers. From the backpack earlier I got vial of binding liquid and choking gas (used against Screaming Tom) which was great but the ring of strength on the other hand wasn't that good.

For the army at the dock I had 101 berserker and 68 centaurs at month 2 week 1 day 3.
For the first battle against the centaurs I had 35 centaurs 53 berserkers (you may wait longer here I did it on month 1 week 1 day 7 and had a lucky win with small casualties)

I obviously could have done it earlier with more casualties but this is just nice for this map.

Remember also to use the fountain of fortune that +1 luck may be the turnover. For all the battles beside the normal armies I was using stacks of 1 centaur, there were no stacks with 1 berserker. I used about 5 loadings and none of them were from within the battle.

I have the savegames if you want to see them pm me.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2009 05:40 PM

Quote:
You also may restart the game if you didn't like the artifacts that were near the sceletons
The skeletons just guard a medicine wagon, not any artifacts.
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted August 23, 2009 09:33 PM

He means the potions and vials you find there.

Throwing vials at the enemy is a great strategy. I wonder why I didn't think of that before (since your hero is worthless in combat, the only thing he can do is throw stuff). The Vial of Binding Liquid can easily turn a battle.
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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2009 09:39 PM

Ok. I thought as much.
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TheUnknown
TheUnknown


Known Hero
posted August 23, 2009 11:25 PM

People, the skeletons also guard one skeleton on the ground which gives one treasure artifact.
I got the ring of strength but if you are lucky you may even get the ring of protection or the warlords ring which give 20% to defense or offense.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2009 11:43 PM

You are right. It is hard to spot on the rough terrain.
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Bones_xa
Bones_xa


Known Hero
posted October 26, 2010 04:48 PM

I did it!
Yes this first map on champion was very hard the hardest one out of the original h4 campaigns. Generally follow what theUnknown has said. Thats the right way to get through this map.
From that skeleton I got the ring of warlords.
In week 3 I beat the pirates and rogues by the shipyard.
In month 3 I beat screaming Tom.
But yes it was very hard. It took a lot of reloads messing around with the order of troops and putting single units in slots and such to soak up retaliations.
I maintained my save states if anyone wants them let me know.
After the first two maps the rest of this campaign got very easy.

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MSG-1-1
MSG-1-1


Known Hero
posted October 27, 2010 09:48 AM

I've tried the map with equilibris with no luck.
melee and combat are too nerfed down and some of the stats of the creatures aswell. I guess it's the only map not possible to win with champion

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Theunknown
Theunknown


Known Hero
posted October 28, 2010 12:15 AM

Quote:
I've tried the map with equilibris with no luck.
melee and combat are too nerfed down and some of the stats of the creatures aswell. I guess it's the only map not possible to win with champion


On equilibris I think it is impossible too, but haven't tried many times I must admit.

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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted February 09, 2011 01:26 PM
Edited by pacifist at 13:13, 11 Feb 2011.

What scores did you achieve in this campaign on impossible? I will start it now after having played the Elwin and Tawni campaigns. In both my score was +- 5200. The individual score for map 1 of Tawni was in the 900, well under 1000 because it was the longuest so I assume the first map of Waerjak will give a poor score too? I already beat this campaign before on champion mode but I don't recall much of it now, it was long ago. Only maybe a general advide vs lots of medusas when your hero doesn't have magic resistance, take somme fodders with you so you divide the stacks by 3 so less chance of petrify .

edit : Beat Tom on 2-3-6 with Waerjak lv4 and 73 centaurs + 74 berserkers. Waerjak had master combat and potion of healing from orcs near santuary but he didn't need the potion. From the 2 skelettons (he found ring of the warlord and axe +10). The +5 armor from harpies + berserkers. Some fights lead to many casualties but it was woth it for Waerjak who became stronger. From wagon 1 vial of binding and potions of speed and restauration. The nomads is suicide, not worth to beat them now. Waerjak is now lv5 and GM combat.
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Ansive
Ansive

Tavern Dweller
posted February 12, 2011 12:40 AM

This was so unbalanced... equilibris

It took me a day to do it. When you restart the game some stacks get different numbers.

The first time I started it the centaur dwelling was guarded by scores of centaurs. Didn't manage to beat the pirates after many tries on different months.

I eventually restarted the game and I got dozens guarding the centaur dwelling.

Took the berserkers, free centaurs, 9 centaurs from the first dwelling and attacked on day 2 to get the second dwelling. I had very little losses (only 3 x 15 centaur stacks to fight).

After that I waited until the end of the first month and went to the shipyard. Managed another great victory with little losses after a few tries.

Now I'm not sure but I believe I waited until the end of the third month to attack the pirates and get the cart of ore.

I was a crazy battle (outnumbered 3 to 1) but I managed to win with a few dozens centaur left. Split the stacks (1 berserker), waste some retaliations, get some centaur morale (wait for full range damage). The priority is hurting the pirate stacks since they're massive.

Just after I got the ore cart the AI captured the cyclops dwelling. I had two more difficult battles with him (shameful reloads to minimize losses) in the next months since he had dozens of ogres and trapped me in the lower castle (the first enemy army).

I didn't even clear most of the upper map since I already hit the level cap.

I really wouldn't want to play that map again.

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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2011 03:19 PM

I don't know for Equilibris but on normal the key of first map is too kill Tom as soon as possible (even if losing all troops except Waerjak). Then the 1st town opens the gates and we receive free troops. Now each town captured gives also powerfull free troops and so it's a main goal. That way the AI doesn't have them . Then capture blue town, give one town to AI to let time to visit all power-ups and finish map. Unfortunately that map gives very low score (only in the 700's). Because of that I was not able to have megadragon rank but only dark champion with 4860. All other campaigns I had 5300 +-. The most time wasted is not winning the map but visiting the power-ups .
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Ansive
Ansive

Tavern Dweller
posted February 19, 2011 01:48 AM

I only got around 4500 with 600 on the first map... dragon golem, oh well.
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