|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted January 05, 2010 12:28 AM |
|
|
@Lepas
Reason I asked for a game was because I'm confident I can give you a good fight, win or lose. Luck always played a role in heroes but x combination cannot always win against y. Reason? Too many variables in play. You may have lost to it right now, you can win the next time.
Forget about light, so many resistance artifacts, fire protection ones, even chance for dwarven set 40% magic proof. Or even resistance ability. How long do you think 10 blackies can last against excruciating strike and a few lucky attacks from inferno? Or how long will the dungeon units survive against armageddon for that matter? It is risky for both factions if the players are well prepared.
If you want a truly balanced game then I'd have to ban all elemental artifacts and resistance ones  Or make it like arena where you can hardly afford buying artifacts and if you do you leave army behind - but it's still a random. Maybe in an order cup.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 12:42 AM |
|
|
True dat. The chances of getting fire-resisting artifact are pretty high, and it's probably the most appealing of the elemental resistance arties since aside from a fire caster, it also applies to rune priests and archmages, which are of the two factions that would typically spam Armageddon.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 01:59 AM |
|
|
Quote:
@Lepas
Reason I asked for a game was because I'm confident I can give you a good fight, win or lose.
Maybe so or maybe not, as you said there are too many variables in play. A swifted minded Armageddoner could leave you with half army in a blink of an eye, and by the time you could set excruciating strike it could be too late. And what happens if Dungeon is the one who owns fire resistance arties? Perhaps you're right, maybe some other time I'll be able to win someone before fighting too, but I tell you something and that's I won't enjoy for it at all.
And our game is granted, when have I refused a game to you? 
Anyway, to sum up my point, I'm only saying that this kind of strategy isn't fun, and so I think it's bad for the game because many times it forces you to invest some levels for something that could not happen (just like orcs shatter sometimes, but not so much deadly as Armageddon). Solution? To ban it or maybe modding it by raising its mana cost and/or reducing its power a bit.
____________
Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 09:32 AM |
|
|
To do that I would have to take into account the other factions and it's not exactly imbalanced vs the rest - more like a desperation spell. I could possibly give the dwarven smithy hammer through a quest but that requires testing, if inferno got another fire resistance artie it might get too powerful for dungeon to handle.
The interesting part is that if the warlock gets basic irresistible to avoid his blackies going down enemy units will only receive 20% damage with resistance.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 11:01 AM |
|
|
Great game Arcax, I really enjoyed watching that, although the morale wasn't so high it still worked out great with the "I've got you by the balls" surprise factor for Dagoth which didn't have any might skills 
I had a Warlock with aura of swiftness, retribution, FireWarriors and Unicorn Bow+Book o'Summon+Morale arties leading Haven not so long ago vs Elvin but we got disconnected before I could save the build  I would love to see that in action
You will perform well in the upcoming tournament
____________
none of my business.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 12:36 PM |
|
|
That was indeed a sight for sore eyes  First I checked the skills and found them peculiar, it was only then that I noticed he had Ellaine. Lucky resists in the ending but he could get to the finish line just by melee attacks on magmas.
Also good game with phoenix, had watched it but got distracted with things and forgot to comment. When shamans went down I wondered if it was possible for the dwarves to win, good try. Nice to see warlock's luck under dwarves again, been a while.
In the meantime Larry asked me to post the replays. Dibs!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 01:50 PM |
|
|
Damn you Dibs!
1st was quite unique for EPIC DUEL with larger armies...now that is an unlockable!
2nd inconclusive? I've been on losing other side of that sorta thing
4th very quick ... inf with leadership, hmm ... I won't say more... anyway having 7 full stacks helps altho I'd like a chance to play inferno with leadership against arma too just to experience it
{I still think lucky empowered slippered meteor is more dangerous, even more so with shadya}
[isn't academy arma the worst arma for inferno anyway?]
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 03:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
That was indeed a sight for sore eyes First I checked the skills and found them peculiar, it was only then that I noticed he had Ellaine. Lucky resists in the ending but he could get to the finish line just by melee attacks on magmas.
Also good game with phoenix, had watched it but got distracted with things and forgot to comment. When shamans went down I wondered if it was possible for the dwarves to win, good try. Nice to see warlock's luck under dwarves again, been a while.
In the meantime Larry asked me to post the replays. Dibs!
thanks for posting Elvin
1st game,probably the best of the series (although Lepas wanted to quit before the 1st strike ),had really good ballista,that did pretty good dmg to uber tough orcs,although 1st strike was mine orcs quickly recovered and easily killed most of my troops ,at the end he had all what is needed to win,but no shatter dark(although really good ressistance) and lucky morale with archangels when i attacked gobos,no word of the chief to counter blind that hit just when it was really necessary opened a road to hard wictory
2nd i'm pretty sure he had chance to win but he again wanted to quit too early and this time he did so
3d really hard matchup for dungeon (at least in my mind,lepas tought dungeon is the favorite),bought book of dark and spent lots of money on mentor,so my army was pretty small,at the end no chance at all,orcs were too fast and too deadly
4th i had really good setup for fire spells ,got ignite ,fire booster artie(Azagal vigor),swift mind and if i remember empathy,after the 1st arma lepas quitted, although arma did same dmg to my troops as well(except for blackies and his spawns) ignite only works for his troops so i guess i would win this 1 for sure,but it's far from unbeatable strategy,since we both suffer same initial dmg and demon sure can kill pretty fast but whatever
also Elvin have u banned staff and ring in the new version??
i haven't seen them since u updated the map
thanks for games
larry fanoga
|
|
Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 06:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
1st game,probably the best of the series (although Lepas wanted to quit before the 1st strike)
You say that as I have not enough reasons to guess it's better to quit in order to save time. First charge left me without half Executioners and Witches seriously damaged, before I could do anything. And in the end, correct if I'm wrong, I was right about quitting.
Quote:
had really good ballista,that did pretty good dmg to uber tough orcs,although 1st strike was mine orcs quickly recovered and easily killed most of my troops ,at the end he had all what is needed to win,but no shatter dark(although really good ressistance) and lucky morale with archangels when i attacked gobos,no word of the chief to counter blind that hit just when it was really necessary opened a road to hard wictory
Orcs didn't recover, they only took down Champions, and this wasn't easy either. Anyway, about Dark, with average resistance I considered it wasn't worth of picking up because the idea was to take Might over Magic too, so your mass spells won't last so much, but it didn't showed in the last moves of mentoring. Maybe with that I could have still some chance.
Quote:
2nd i'm pretty sure he had chance to win but he again wanted to quit too early and this time he did so
Are you serious? By the time I quitted I have no vamps, no ghosts (killed at first strike), half Wights and Zombies against your untouched Archangels, Griffins and almost unharmed Vindicators and Archers. Taking into account that 35% Resistance avoided two key spells, I couldn't trust they will work properly in the future, don't you think?
Quote:
3d really hard matchup for dungeon (at least in my mind,lepas tought dungeon is the favorite),bought book of dark and spent lots of money on mentor,so my army was pretty small,at the end no chance at all,orcs were too fast and too deadly
A swited Destructive area strike could have done wonders. Aside, if you got Dark Book, even without mastery, you can bring some trouble.
Quote:
4th i had really good setup for fire spells ,got ignite ,fire booster artie(Azagal vigor),swift mind and if i remember empathy,after the 1st arma lepas quitted, although arma did same dmg to my troops as well(except for blackies and his spawns) ignite only works for his troops so i guess i would win this 1 for sure,but it's far from unbeatable strategy,since we both suffer same initial dmg and demon sure can kill pretty fast but whatever
Yep, both suffered the same damage, but how the hell is supposed that I could reach Blackies before you cleared Spawns with Implo or Freeze? As I said previously, playing with Armageddon is like giving matches sometimes as they were christmas presents, a total and absolute waste of time, specially for the loser which spent some time thinking how to give some serious fight, and not this kind of joke.
____________
Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 06:38 PM |
|
|
Dude what the snow. It's the Chaos Cup, of course it's going to be retarded. I agree that it's silly and less exciting, but it's only 1 tournament and some people like it, so if you don't like the format to the point that it's not fun, you should have just skipped out until the next one. You're complaining about balance in a version explicitly designed to be imbalanced. I mean it's like showing up at a strip club and then complaining about the nudity.
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 06:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You say that as I have not enough reasons to guess it's better to quit in order to save time. First charge left me without half Executioners and Witches seriously damaged, before I could do anything. And in the end, correct if I'm wrong, I was right about quitting.
Orcs didn't recover, they only took down Champions, and this wasn't easy either. Anyway, about Dark, with average resistance I considered it wasn't worth of picking up because the idea was to take Might over Magic too, so your mass spells won't last so much, but it didn't showed in the last moves of mentoring. Maybe with that I could have still some chance.Quote:
u started quitting talk right from the start when u saw the ini bar,and yep that 1st attack was pretty good ,but saying u didn't have chance is silly,when i opened mine archers u had your chance,maybe u made some mistakes so u didn't win
Quote:
Are you serious? By the time I quitted I have no vamps, no ghosts (killed at first strike), half Wights and Zombies against your untouched Archangels, Griffins and almost unharmed Vindicators and Archers. Taking into account that 35% Resistance avoided two key spells, I couldn't trust they will work properly in the future, don't you think?
1st i think Necro is the best faction in duels,also u had full stack of dragons and skeleton warriors,2 resisted spells don't mean that much and with little luck later necro could turn the battle
Quote:
A swited Destructive area strike could have done wonders. Aside, if you got Dark Book, even without mastery, you can bring some trouble.
and u had shatter destr,also i did have expert dark and the book and swift mind probbably could have played it better ,but orcs are just too fast and danger lies in every unit
Quote:
Yep, both suffered the same damage, but how the hell is supposed that I could reach Blackies before you cleared Spawns with Implo or Freeze? As I said previously, playing with Armageddon is like giving matches sometimes as they were christmas presents, a total and absolute waste of time, specially for the loser which spent some time thinking how to give some serious fight, and not this kind of joke.
have u seen the caesar battle
while it's true in this battle u didn't have a chance, it's far from unbeatable strategy even for demon(as elvin already said)
nyway the spell is not banned after all
larry fanoga
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 06:51 PM |
|
|
|
damn quoting
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 07:10 PM |
|
|
I've missed some of the conversation, I'll get back at you Lepas did have a point since I was considering to keep it for the regular version - it's the whole reason I increased the army strength. Balance aside I won't be using it since it doesn't lead to fun games.
Things I'm not yet convinced about are cotn, wol and dv. The first two aren't particularly strong, not to the point they could turn a game around. Only exception is a ranger with druid spellpower vs inferno but it's easy to get hold of the unrepentant ring anyway. Dv is trickier, normally I'd want to exorcise it from the game like the cruelest demon but.. Some factions can wash all over you in the first charge. It can be a good ace in such a situation where regular buffing/resurrection may not be enough. On the other hand certain factions like academy/fortress that can keep bringing themselves back can abuse it to kill opponent easier so I'll likely kick it out. Rune of charge was fun while it lasted
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 07:37 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I've missed some of the conversation, I'll get back at you Lepas did have a point since I was considering to keep it for the regular version - it's the whole reason I increased the army strength. Balance aside I won't be using it since it doesn't lead to fun games.
Things I'm not yet convinced about are cotn, wol and dv. The first two aren't particularly strong, not to the point they could turn a game around. Only exception is a ranger with druid spellpower vs inferno but it's easy to get hold of the unrepentant ring anyway. Dv is trickier, normally I'd want to exorcise it from the game like the cruelest demon but.. Some factions can wash all over you in the first charge. It can be a good ace in such a situation where regular buffing/resurrection may not be enough. On the other hand certain factions like academy/fortress that can keep bringing themselves back can abuse it to kill opponent easier so I'll likely kick it out. Rune of charge was fun while it lasted
how is cotn in necro hands not that strong?
i guess academy could abuse dv best,fortress to much lesser extent
however i don't concider that spell too overpowered,although sometime i can be
about arma i guess what most mind is that the battle gets really short so it looks like no inbattle strategy is needed,but it's pretty gamble to go for that
anyway this is again getting to what to ban to make things more balanced and more modding
but starting is same for all and game can not be balanced ,and u can win/lose in 2 turns with orc charge, arma or after 30+ moves sometime,and i don't see any problem with that
also Elvin might have missed from my previous post about ring and staff(are they banned in this rebalanced version?)
larry fanoga
|
|
phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 07:46 PM |
|
|
I'm agreeing with BlizzardBoy. It's chaos it can't be balanced. I don't really like it but some of the matches are fun. May as well enable everything. I was making complaints but BB has convinced me to leave it alone.
There will be other tourneys for more balanced play.
|
|
Lepastur
Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 08:20 PM |
|
Edited by Lepastur at 20:25, 05 Jan 2010.
|
Quote:
u started quitting talk right from the start when u saw the ini bar,and yep that 1st attack was pretty good ,but saying u didn't have chance is silly,when i opened mine archers u had your chance,maybe u made some mistakes so u didn't win
I guess the only and most important mistake was not taking Might over Magic, that could have taken down the blindness to nearly 0.25 turns. When you opened archers I scared them in order to reach them, were there any other option?
Quote:
1st i think Necro is the best faction in duels,also u had full stack of dragons and skeleton warriors,2 resisted spells don't mean that much and with little luck later necro could turn the battle
12 Dragons have nothing to do with 10 Archangels, and Skellies are level 1. I can't understand why you don't see the battle was hopeless yet, because with Dark against 35% resist and a moral empathied army is difficult to succes. Perhaps another bet, like Summoning could have worked.
Quote:
and u had shatter destr,also i did have expert dark and the book and swift mind probbably could have played it better ,but orcs are just too fast and danger lies in every unit
Although I had shatter destr you could have dealed some good damage. Anyway, with Defense things could have been quite different, so I supposed it didn't showed up.
Quote:
have u seen the caesar battle
while it's true in this battle u didn't have a chance, it's far from unbeatable strategy even for demon(as elvin already said)
nyway the spell is not banned after all
No I didn't see it, what battle are you talking about?
@Blizzard and Phoenix
I'm not asking balance in Chaos, that's quite absurd because even Order has some imba things sometimes, what I ask is taking out Armageddon or at least mod it, as well as other companions like WoL or CotN, in order to avoid these kind of situations. I don't agree with you about Chaos version vision as a Dice game. I like Chaos like the way it was before, just favouring some luck with arties and such, but I think enabling armageddon is too much. Anyway, no worries, next time in case of Dungeon I'll ask the opponent if there is armageddon and I'll conceed before leveling if so.
____________
Torre de Marfil Foro / Portal - La Comunidad
hispana más completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.
|
|
Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 08:57 PM |
|
|
In my game I just followed my rule - take anything which is not Warlock even if its Barbarian. Ellaine was in reach. I had good arties apart from enlightment and retribution, so Dagoth hadnt got much chances.
Anyway I have to apologise him since I didnt make on time for the rest of our todays games.
Dagoth forgive me ...
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 10:17 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I guess the only and most important mistake was not taking Might over Magic, that could have taken down the blindness to nearly 0.25 turns. When you opened archers I scared them in order to reach them, were there any other option?
scaring archers was really ,me moving squires wasn't,but after killing archers i think you could play little different also maybe u could be bit quicker in killing ballista
Quote:
12 Dragons have nothing to do with 10 Archangels, and Skellies are level 1. I can't understand why you don't see the battle was hopeless yet, because with Dark against 35% resist and a moral empathied army is difficult to succes. Perhaps another bet, like Summoning could have worked.
who knows maybe when that pupett landed i would not have a way to dispell it
Quote:
Although I had shatter destr you could have dealed some good damage. Anyway, with Defense things could have been quite different, so I supposed it didn't showed up.
with shatter destr and rage dmg would be pathetic,orcs would run through like hot knife through butter,defence is good for last stand,but hard to get and anyway orcs will be very fast in getting to that last standing
Quote:
No I didn't see it, what battle are you talking about?
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/19888725/Caesars_final_replay1.sav
Quote:
Anyway, no worries, next time in case of Dungeon I'll ask the opponent if there is armageddon and I'll conceed before leveling if so.
unless u are academy,dwarf,orc,sylvan,haven other dungeon ,hell even the others can win with ok luck with arties or lvling
larry fanoga
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 10:35 PM |
|
|
File not found. It has been either deleted, or it never existed at all.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
foolishman
Known Hero
|
|
posted January 05, 2010 11:18 PM |
|
|
Quote:
File not found. It has been either deleted, or it never existed at all.
just copied the link from infinitus upload
anyway if anyone wants to see bugged empowered arma vs fire ressistant demon i'll send it to them
i know u have it anyway
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
