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| Thread: Limited Rights or Limited Government? [religious opinions not banned from this thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 23, 2013 10:00 PM |
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Karl Marx said, “The idea of God is the keystone of a perverted society. The true root of liberty, equality and culture is atheism.” Yet we see what discarding the idea that the root of all rights lies in God did for officially atheist societies. Pol Pot, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, ect, are landmarks that down that road lie destruction.
The Left denies a number of basic human rights. As mentioned above, parenthood came before the State and thus parental rights are inalienable natural rights that the government has no business meddling in. But the Left sees parental rights as an obstruction on the road to collectivism. All children must be brainwashed by the State to be good little worshipers of the State-god and not question the State's "right" to control every aspect of their lives.
Another right the Left has issues with is freedom of religion. Religion is not about just belief but about living your beliefs-actions. Most of the Left is willing to somewhat tolerate a "head" belief but it is frankly hostile towards true freedom of religion--that is, a person living his belief.
Pol Pot, Mao or Stalin did not kill IN THE NAME OF atheism, they were dictators defending very specific and totalitarian kinds of socialism. Today, in Northern Europe and Far East there are countries that has atheist population as MAJORITY. No mass murders take place, they are not more or less degenerated then any other country. Actually most of them are among the wealthiest countries with fine education and low crime. So stop this non-sense of State without God will corrupt BS. It is FACTUALLY proven wrong. There is no casualty between your examples and your conclusion.
And if your last post is about the faith-heals believing family letting their children die, nowhere in your quotes there is a constitutional approval to that situation. There is a critical difference between teaching your child your belief and letting that belief kill him. You don't have to be a genius to see the difference and if you can't... well... It's literally beyond words.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 10:43 AM |
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All children must be brainwashed by the State to be good little worshipers of the State-god and not question the State's "right" to control every aspect of their lives.
How is this different from being brainwashed by their parents to be racists, for instance?
If you truly care for kids not being treated like acolytes in a cult, you should care "both ways". Too much liberty given to nutjobs = same effect as "reeducation camps".
To me you're putting too much attention to the "collective" part, and too little to the "brainwashing" part. To me, it doesn't really matter if the kids are brainwashed by fascist camp teachers, or fascist stupid parents. The effect is more or less equal.
But you focus only on one part of the equation here. It looks like you don't really care if the kids are brainwashed or not, as long as it doesn't have the "government" label on it.
Quote:
Part of a parents "job" is to prepare a child for adult life to the best of his ability. To, "train up a child in the way that he should go."
What if the parent is, simply stating, evil?
The amount of "freedom" you propose here gives godlike powers to all psycho-parents to destroy their kids as they please.
Not very smart if you ask me.
Children aren't a property of their parents (or the state).
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 24, 2013 01:55 PM |
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Quote:
The US Founding fathers declared all rights of man come from God and are "inalienable." Rights are not granted by the government. The government can only recognize the rights that the people already have or the government can chose to deny those rights and oppress the people.
Your founding fathers remained very distant to religion, some of them were deists not theists. Even the term self-evident was put in your Constitution to replace some religious reference. You may personally believe whatever you want but in a secular law text "God given" is just an expression. In theory and in practice, rights are not metaphysical entities and saying they are God given holds no substantial value. Government says you can drink alcohol, you drink, government declares prohibition, you don't drink/risk jail time/revolt/get in politics or vote for people who change law, that are your options, God does not interfere.
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Further, parenthood came before the State, so it is "self evident" that nature and nature's God entrusted the children to the parents, not to the State. That right of a parent to parent his child is a natural right.
There is absolutely nothing self-evident about this. I see Doomforge was quicker than me anyway, but nevertheless, if the parents are brainwashing/torturing etc etc... The state (society) takes over. It was just like that in ancient times too, it was allowed to beat the kid but if you did it too harshly you were punished. Try to raise your kids as hardcore Neo-Nazis that believe all Jews should be terminated, see what the State does. Naturally, every parent indoctrinate their children to a level, even if they don't, the children imitate them up to a certain age, but it's also a parent's responsibility to give the kid a sense of independence and critical thinking, the ability to think for him/herself. And if the parents' teachings conflict with basic human rights and they are hate crimes, the state has a right to intervene. This should only happen in cases which the parents are EXTREMELY fundamentalist and their ideology/religion advocates violence or causes direct harm to the child (as in prayer healing case). No matter what you teach your children, they can grow up and say "I disagree." Unless you brainwash them or allow them to die because of YOUR beliefs.
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