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| Thread: H6CT1 - Team 1 discussion thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2009 06:48 AM |
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H6CT1 - Team 1 discussion thread
Okay War-overlord, KnightofHonour, shall we get cracking?
I think the first thing on the agenda should be setting, are we staying on Ashan (H5), going back to Axeoth(H4), Enroth(H1-3), or onto somewhere completely different?
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2009 08:06 AM |
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Hi there.
Might I suggest we add each other to MSN so we can chat faster there?
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Asha uses all 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 07, 2009 11:29 AM |
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Hey guys, I'm exited to finally start with this.
I agree we should define a setting before we start with the rest. I personally liked the Ashan setting best as this was the most well-organized for me. For all it's depth, the settings by 3DO was messy, verry complex and frequently inconsistent. Ashan is more solidly based, in my opinion, and I have a better grasp of it's core. And as tempting as creating a setting may sound, it's way more complex then it may seem at first glance.(I know, since I'm trying to write a fantasy novel in my spare time.)
I'd like to hear what you guys would like in a setting.
As for adding eachother on MSN, that is an option. But I for one am not all that active on it anymore and I use a different email for it. Also given the fact that I live in the Netherlands, Knight lives in Brazil and since Matt has not disclosed his location, the time difference may be problematic. Also in my past experiences threesided chats are often verry messy and unorganized. Still if you want to go through with this send me an email and I will give you the correct email.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 07, 2009 01:30 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:31, 07 Sep 2009.
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Well I can live with Ashan, but I'm concerned that going with an already-made map will limit us creatively, although I agree it might be the lesser of two evils (I'd planned to write a fantasy story of my own once, but gave up when I simply couldn't figure the map how I wanted it). Yet another thought is to use our own world, or at least a map thereof, and write our own history for it.
I'm also against the idea of MSN, I live in New Zealand, putting me geographically about 11 - 11 1/2 hours out-of-synch with War-overlord, which kind of limits the time-saving capacity of the idea, because we'd only be able to talk a few hours anyway.
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted September 07, 2009 03:11 PM |
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Good Luck Guys! 
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Vini Vidi Vici
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 07, 2009 03:35 PM |
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Mat, are you talking about the geographical map of Ashan or are you talking about setting, when you refer to map ?
If you are talking about the geographical map of Ashan, then you should perhaps take a better look, because there quite a few uncharted landmasses and islands. To be specific, east of Ranaar and Stonehelm there is a vast uncharted mass of land; in the Irisus Sea and the Jade Ocean there are multiple islandchains; Between the Silver Cities and Heresh there is an unclaimed-seeming peninsula; and south of the Silver Cities there is an entire continent that is not part of the story yet. Personally I see opertunities galore.
Creating our own world, like I said, is a whole lot of work and the work is hard as we have to start from scratch. I'm not against the idea, but I prefer to start with a laid foundation instead of creating one entirely.
But before we decide anything, we should hear from Knight and hear what he has to say about the matter.
Since we're talking about foundations, we should also discuss how we base our factions: Around a Core-race, or around a common theme, or even something else entirely.
Personnaly, I'm a BIG advocate of the Core-race foundation for a faction.
As for Kraken, thank you verry much for your best wishes, they are greatly apreciated. However flattering it may be, I hope we do not get flooded with goodluckwishes as they may get in the way of the common thread.
Also on a completely unrelated note, should we name our Team ? I for one, do not see much merit in it. But if you guys can come up with a nice name, I would not mind naming our team.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted September 07, 2009 09:11 PM |
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For all it's depth, the settings by 3DO was messy, verry complex and frequently inconsistent. Ashan is more solidly based, in my opinion
Bleh.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 07, 2009 11:07 PM |
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I vote for Ashan too, I agree with the reasons given by War-Overlord. Let's think of interesting things happening there  . I wanted MSN to keep our development secretive muahhah  .
BTW do you guys have a story already? I have one related to my insect faction. I have other new factions too. I think we could make a game with a few new factions whilst keeping core ones like ones like undead, inferno and castle.
Can you guys tell me your new faction ideas, if any, so I can imagine a complete story and propose it for you? Send me via e-mail or instant message plz.
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Asha uses all
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 07, 2009 11:42 PM |
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I see no need to keep secrets, the other teams aren't so far as I can see. This is a friendly competition, not international espionage.
Since we all need to aprove, are we agreed on Ashan then?
If so, when do we set this? Before the events of HoMMV, after HoMMV, after the events of DMoMM ?
I, for one, like to set it after DMoMM, though without using any of the given endings. The given endings were to onesided for me. You either save the world in one, and in the other three the world is conquered and/or destroyed. I'd like the idea that Sareth, while usurping Kha-Beleth, locks himself in Sheogh by mistake. That way the world is not destroyed nor is it effectively saved as the Demons are still a threat.
(On an unrelated note, I think I've read somewhere that Ubi is planning to disregard the given endings as well)
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Let's think of interesting things happening there
This is what I planned to do. After replaying some parts of HoMMIII a few weeks ago, which I haven't done for several years, I've noticed that the campaigns were full of political intrigue. This is something I'd like to introduce into Ashan. How much I liked it, HoMMV was to much Saving-the-World, Fighting-the-Evil to my tastes. I'd like to blurr the lines more, make things be less black and white.
I think we should develop a story together instead of one person coming up with an entire one. It takes long, I know, but generally the results are better.
We should also discuss how we are going to base our factions: Around a Core-race, or around a common theme, or even something else entirely.
Personnaly, I'm a BIG advocate of the Core-race foundation for a faction.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 02:06 AM |
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Ok no secret development (I had some bad experiences in the past so that's why I'm a bit defensive when doing something new on the interwebs).
As to the story I feel we need some renewal here. The demons are a important aspect of the story, they are the sons of chaos after all, but I feel we need a new enemy. And that is not a bad thing. You see, in H2 there were no demons, and is still a favorite in the series for many ppl.
I'm not saying we should discard the demons, but plz no more things like Biara controls that, Biara kills someone, the queen is corrupted, etc. So that means we need to create new villains with new motivations. And of course new heroes to save the world.
I'm currently developing my other faction, but what I can suggest already is that basic plan: The Insect Faction invading the surface world (or any other power-hungry original faction) and another new faction to detain them, that would show up later in the story. The core factions would fit in the story as well, participating in the political intrigue you mentioned that would be good. The wizards for instance, could gain a new ruler that is quite different from Zehir: this new ruler supports and aids the new evil faction seeking to control them (the Insect Army fits perfectly here). So he may seen nice in the beggining but secretly works against the griffin empire to increase the power of the wizards, seeking some new big artifact or something like that.
AS to the factions we have some data to work with. Gnoll_Mage made a poll asking what factions ppl would like to see in H6 on this thread: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=26243&pagenumber=9. The results indicated those are favorites:
Elves
Demons
Necropolis
Orcs
Lizardmen
Wizards
Faceless
Humans
Dark Elves
Trolls / Ogres
Beastmen
That actually indicates ppl want to see those creatures again in H6. But no problem! Core factions can remain! Now I also remember I saw once a thread with the proposal of the Faceless Faction done by the user Baklava I think. The Faceless could be a good enemy too.
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 07:53 AM |
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Okay, Ashan it is, but can we please drop the whole 'dragon gods' concept, I mean dragons are overdone as it is, but this just takes the cake (they're not important to the story either, just a bit of old mythology). Core-races suit me. I'd prefer to set it in the aftermath of TotE, but beyond that I have no idea about the story (I do like War-overlord's ending to DMoMM, since it not only keeps the demons in the game, but gives us the possibility of a demon civil war next time they break out), except to raise a few possibly interesting points:
- the Faceless survive at least till 540, so they may make a comeback
- the outcome of the demon attack on the Dragon Knights (717) isn't known, so this might yield possibilities.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 08:04 AM |
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Uhhm just found the thread about the faceless after some searching. It looks like they actually dislike demons and like angels  . So how would they be villains? It seems they are neutral but would cooperate with good instead of evil.
Here is the race description as done by Baklava (http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=21681):
Race Description
The Faceless have been born from the blackness, as dark, shadowy creatures, but they are tall, straight-up and human-like in some aspects of the looks. They adorn themselves in black robes and clothes, although those are mostly illusions of the misty darkness that surrounds each of them. They are fully aware of the power the illusions might have on the minds of mortals, and use that quite a lot in their battle tactics, buildings and overall appearance. The true shape of a Faceless was never truly discovered, but it is certain that their skin is of pale gray colour and that they have rather long arms with delicate, useful fingers (not claws). Since all Faceless wear robes long to the floor, nothing is known of their lower limbs.
During the ages of imprisonment within the Twilight Dimension, the Faceless have became completely dependant on darkness and now, whenever in light, their darkness reserves are emptying, and hence the use of Shadow orbs.
The Shadow orbs come as some sort of portable darkness generators, and are created out of shaped onyx imbued with various auras and other enchantments by numerous disciples – mostly ex-members of the Order of Shadow. They are completely in charge of creating those orbs and their loyalty to the Faceless is unquestionable. The Faceless now, whenever in areas of light such as Ashan during the day, seem a little different. The most noticeable thing about their appearance are dense pyres of blackness pouring from their eyes, concealing most of their eyeballs and giving them an eerie, inscrutable look.
Other creatures tamed by the Faceless in the Twilight dimension need to stick relatively close to the Faceless as they see them as sources of nourishing darkness. They do not need separate orbs, but need to be in their vicinity to gain the energy to stay in the dimension of Asha. If the sources of blackness were to be taken from them, they would be left all alone and would gradually dematerialize and get dragged back to the voids of Twilight.
The Faceless have no political system. They have no need for kings, queens or similar. They acknowledge Malassa as their deity, however, and would do anything for her. That is more because they see her as their mother, not their master. They are wise and honourable beings, but do not let themselves be blinded by chivalry (unlike human knights of the Griffin Empire). That means that they will refrain from dishonourable deeds unless they are left no choice.
Contrary to the popular belief, the Faceless do not hate Angels. They see them as equal to them, but driven by sole lust for their goals and senseless bravery. They believe the Angels must exist to keep the balance in the universe, and know that light is essential for many things. However, the Faceless see the demons as pure, vile vermin that must be destroyed if any peace was to be born. Unlike some short-sighted mortals, they are fully aware that allying with demons cannot be an option, since the final goal of Urgash is enslavement and extermination of everything made by Asha and her elemental dragon servants. They will hence rather cooperate even with Angels than with demons.
Unbreakable in their resolve, honourable, but wise, very intelligent and above everything free, only a complete fool, mortal or immortal, would neglect the might and influence of the Faceless.
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 08:38 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:39, 08 Sep 2009.
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Quote:
Uhhm just found the thread about the faceless after some searching. It looks like they actually dislike demons and like angels . So how would they be villains? It seems they are neutral but would cooperate with good instead of evil.
Half the Elder Wars were the Angels trying to wipe out the Faceless, give me one good reason the Faceless wouldn't hate them for that.
Quote:
Race Description
The Faceless have been born from the blackness, as dark, shadowy creatures, but they are tall, straight-up and human-like in some aspects of the looks. They adorn themselves in black robes and clothes, although those are mostly illusions of the misty darkness that surrounds each of them. They are fully aware of the power the illusions might have on the minds of mortals, and use that quite a lot in their battle tactics, buildings and overall appearance. The true shape of a Faceless was never truly discovered, but it is certain that their skin is of pale gray colour and that they have rather long arms with delicate, useful fingers (not claws). Since all Faceless wear robes long to the floor, nothing is known of their lower limbs.
During the ages of imprisonment within the Twilight Dimension, the Faceless have became completely dependant on darkness and now, whenever in light, their darkness reserves are emptying, and hence the use of Shadow orbs.
The Shadow orbs come as some sort of portable darkness generators, and are created out of shaped onyx imbued with various auras and other enchantments by numerous disciples – mostly ex-members of the Order of Shadow. They are completely in charge of creating those orbs and their loyalty to the Faceless is unquestionable. The Faceless now, whenever in areas of light such as Ashan during the day, seem a little different. The most noticeable thing about their appearance are dense pyres of blackness pouring from their eyes, concealing most of their eyeballs and giving them an eerie, inscrutable look.
Other creatures tamed by the Faceless in the Twilight dimension need to stick relatively close to the Faceless as they see them as sources of nourishing darkness. They do not need separate orbs, but need to be in their vicinity to gain the energy to stay in the dimension of Asha. If the sources of blackness were to be taken from them, they would be left all alone and would gradually dematerialize and get dragged back to the voids of Twilight.
The Faceless have no political system. They have no need for kings, queens or similar. They acknowledge Malassa as their deity, however, and would do anything for her. That is more because they see her as their mother, not their master. They are wise and honourable beings, but do not let themselves be blinded by chivalry (unlike human knights of the Griffin Empire). That means that they will refrain from dishonourable deeds unless they are left no choice.
Contrary to the popular belief, the Faceless do not hate Angels. They see them as equal to them, but driven by sole lust for their goals and senseless bravery. They believe the Angels must exist to keep the balance in the universe, and know that light is essential for many things. However, the Faceless see the demons as pure, vile vermin that must be destroyed if any peace was to be born. Unlike some short-sighted mortals, they are fully aware that allying with demons cannot be an option, since the final goal of Urgash is enslavement and extermination of everything made by Asha and her elemental dragon servants. They will hence rather cooperate even with Angels than with demons.
Unbreakable in their resolve, honourable, but wise, very intelligent and above everything free, only a complete fool, mortal or immortal, would neglect the might and influence of the Faceless.
Quite nice, but this is only Baklava's interpretation, I happen to see them more as Troglodytes/Mindflayers.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 08:43 AM |
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Well I suppose we need another source then. Do you have a book, site or something talking about them so that we may take our own conclusions?
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 08:56 AM |
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No I don't, but then, isn't that what this whole project is about in the first place, using our own imaginations?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 08, 2009 09:54 AM |
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Great to hear we are all agreed on Ashan as our world setting and on a core-race as basis for our factions.
I personally liked the Gods of Ashan, though we do not need to refer to them as Dragons. I'd like to keep the given Gods, though I am willing to do concessions. Also there are already factions who deviate from this. Necropolis views Asha as a Spider, Stronghold worships their own God-duo and Academy does not believe that the Gods are Gods at all, just verry powerfull magic-users.
As for an Insect-faction, I'm not oposed to that, but I do fear it will turn into a Zerg-clone verry soon and I'd like to avoid that.
As for Wizards and other old factions, I'd like to sett this at least 40-50 years after HoMMV, making it 15-30 years after DMoMM(Since it is not specified when that happens). This gives us plenty of oppertunities to make changes in old factions and give it a historical backing. I already played with an idea of removing Zehir as ruler, but I personally though of a military coup and installing a monarch to replace the Wizards Council.
I also thought of a Minotaur Rebellion in the Dungeon faction, to replace the Dark Elves as main race.
As for the Faceless survival, Yes that is true but only a handfull remained after the Elder Wars, so while we can incorporate them, they may not be enough to create a faction around them. We can use them as manipulators, pulling strings behind the screens of the world.
I have no ideas yet as to what to do with the Dragon Knights. There are plenty uses, but I haven't given it much tought.
I will continue later, as I have to go now.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 10:27 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 10:32, 08 Sep 2009.
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I personally liked the Gods of Ashan, though we do not need to refer to them as Dragons. I'd like to keep the given Gods, though I am willing to do concessions. Also there are already factions who deviate from this. Necropolis views Asha as a Spider, Stronghold worships their own God-duo and Academy does not believe that the Gods are Gods at all, just verry powerfull magic-users.
Well, I can go along with that, just as long as we drop the idea of 'dragon' gods.
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As for an Insect-faction, I'm not oposed to that, but I do fear it will turn into a Zerg-clone verry soon and I'd like to avoid that.
Agreed, giant bugs are more sci-fi/alien than they are fantasy.
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As for Wizards and other old factions, I'd like to sett this at least 40-50 years after HoMMV, making it 15-30 years after DMoMM(Since it is not specified when that happens). This gives us plenty of oppertunities to make changes in old factions and give it a historical backing.
Fair enough.
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I also thought of a Minotaur Rebellion in the Dungeon faction, to replace the Dark Elves as main race.
I don't know, Minotaurs seem a bit too simple to me to have their own faction.
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As for the Faceless survival, Yes that is true but only a handfull remained after the Elder Wars, so while we can incorporate them, they may not be enough to create a faction around them. We can use them as manipulators, pulling strings behind the screens of the world.
Hm, what if the Minotaurs were to rebel and try to exterminate the Dark elves, but get defeated and banished by the Faceless? This would lead to the Minotaurs possibly falling in with the Orcs (like their Beastmen brothers the Centaurs), and the Dark Elves worshipping/serving the Faceless.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 10:38 AM |
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No I don't, but then, isn't that what this whole project is about in the first place, using our own imaginations?
Nop, you are wrong. This is about imagination but having the right source of information does not mean we are not using our imagination, it means we are being coherent to the story and background.
So tells us what you imagined already?
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 08, 2009 11:04 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 12:17, 08 Sep 2009.
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Nop, you are wrong. This is about imagination but having the right source of information does not mean we are not using our imagination, it means we are being coherent to the story and background.
Well a fellow poster, no matter how good he is, does not count as a canonical source.
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So tells us what you imagined already?
This is only the start of the project, so I'm not certain yet what's going to stay and what's going to go.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 08, 2009 12:04 PM |
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Well, I can go along with that, just as long as we drop the idea of 'dragon' gods.
We can even explain away the fact that the mortals called them Dragon-gods, by having some or other person having a vission of the true forms of the Gods. The Gods then explain that the person is the Second Mortal after Sar-Elam to truely comprehend the Gods. Other Mortals can only begin to understand by comparing them to the mighty Dragons.
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I don't know, Minotaurs seem a bit too simple to me to have their own faction.
Hm, what if the Minotaurs were to rebel and try to exterminate the Dark elves, but get defeated and banished by the Faceless? This would lead to the Minotaurs possibly falling in with the Orcs (like their Beastmen brothers the Centaurs), and the Dark Elves worshipping/serving the Faceless.
I imagined the Minotaurs to more akin to the original Dungeon. Ruthless, brutal, cunning and biggoted. A Minotaur society that would be ruled by a small elite of Warlock and Overlords with a "conform or die" style of rule of a military dictatorship.
Still your idea isn't bad at all, we could also use that. Minotaur could fit in verry wel with the barbaric Orcs, though they do not posses their Demonic Blood.
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This is only the start of the project, so I'm not certain yet what's going to stay and what's going to go.
Indeed, at this point none of us do. But we will work on something we would all agree on.
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So tells us what you imagined already?
Ok, I will but they are only scraps and are not worked out yet. I have focussed on the existing factions, not yet on new ones. Don't get me wrong, I want to introduce new factions but we have to think about this together.
Academy: Wizards Council overthrown by a military coup, now ruled by a Sultan(or other middle-eastern monarch). Still uses magical constructs and minions, but now incorporates non mages in army.
Dungeon: Minotaurs rebel, usurp and exterminate the Dark Elves. Establishing their own nation in the caves, the Minotaurs now press down with an iron fist on the underground denizens.
Fortress: Under the rule of King Wulfstan the dwarves leave their halls more and start to embrace the mountainsides and the highlands as their homes.(Stil spend a lot of time underground, but less.) With the Dark Elves gone, the conservative Dwarves now start seeing a threat in the Sylvan Elves.(Alway wondered what ever happend to the animosity between Elves and Dwarves)
Haven: Queen Freyda brings peace, prosperity and stability to the empire. After her death, her weak-willed son inherits the throne and the rivalries between the duchies comes to a feverpoint as the Dukes all try to make their mark and consolidate their position with the new Emperor.
Inferno: While still trying to break out of their dimensional prison, the demons are divided. Sareth controlls one side, Kha-Beleth's flunkies controll the other.(I realy liked your idea of Demon civil-war, Matt)
Necropolis: With the death/dissapearance of Arantir, Heresh's unity fell apart. Powerfull Necromancers now each rule a part of the land.
(Have not thought of anything more than this)
Stronghold: Khan Gotai has become old and weak. He still holds power and manages to fend of his rivals. But it is clear that this is only a matter of time.
Sylvan: The Elves take in the few surviing Dark Elves. This leads to conflicts with the Dwarves.(Again have not thought of anything more than this)
Tell me what you guys think, like and dislike.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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