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| Thread: H6CT1 - Team 1 discussion thread |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2009 12:59 AM |
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Here are my comments of your comments:
Overlord's:
Ok, it seems you both are adamant on using alternative tiers. I will go along with this. On the condition that we unlike my suggestion use 7 tiers and that the creatures are limited to 1 upgrade. This way there are 28 units per faction (29, if we go with Mercs), which will be challenging but doable. If we'd use 8 tiers, alternate tiers and alternate upgrades we'd be looking at 48 creatures per faction. Now I'd like to think I'm good, but I'm not that good. If we had so many creatures per faction the whole thing would become bland and unimaginative.
Yeah my idea was to make basically two building paths for each faction. I think we have enough ideas for this! For example: Dark Elf Dungeon and related dwellings and Minotaur Dungeon and related dwellings. In the campaigns you would have to choose one of the paths. In single-player maps and multiplayer you could build alternative dwellings for the same faction, you would be not bound by one path only.
Now I have to say that I am firmly against this. It goes against the nature of the game, in my opinion. Do not interprate me wrongly, I own and have played both Impossible Creatures and Spore. They were unique in they're own way, but I found them overal bland. The emphasis was on the creation tools, the actual gameplay was hastend and simple. (Spore more so than Impossible Creatures) HoMM was always about strategic battles and building and on telling fantasy-stories. And while these principles do not neceserally clash, the fact that good creation tools requires an incredible amount of effort means there is less effort to be put in gameplay and story.
A pity man! I don't think it affects te lore at all. You see minotaurs, harpies and other creatures were created by the wizards anyway. So why can't we create ours based on the assumption eac faction has means to do this? Also think of the increased possibilities of having fun. And I don't think a creation tool would take a huge ammount of effort, just copy te method of Spore.
Hmmm, might be nice for multiplayer-duels. But for actual maps this might be difficult to encorporate. I'm not rejecting this, but it needs to be worked out more.
Yep at least in multiplayer this should be done: 2 heroes fighting 2 other heroes at same time. Endless fun and new skill possibilities. For single player the Heroes could "merge" so, for instance, the same hero on the map would merge with another, but mantaining teir army cnfiguration the same.
As long as it does not become to gaudy, I'm for this.
I wanted more cool effects for spells, not necessarily someting that would blind you or make the entire screen dissapear for a second. Also new spells to affect the enviroment like summoning nearby water or lava, falling rocks underground, etc. The maps could be done with more objects to be used.
Now, if I undestand you correctly, you want the factions to be split into to seperate sides, which are represented by alternate upgrades and or tiers. I'm all for this, it was done so with Haven which was split into Holy and Renegade; and with Stronghold which was clearly split between Tribal and Demonic upgrades.
However I'm against Good vs Evil. I'd like splits to be less radical, representing certain ideals rather than Black&White Good Vs Evil.
Yes, that would be two building paths for each town and not necessarily evil. In the campaigns you would have to be bound by one path or the other but in single-player maps and multiplayer the user could build alternative dwellings for the same tier. Example: tier 1 dark elf or tier 1 minotaur for dungeon.
You understand me wrong on one small thing. The Mercs are a whole different sort of unit. They are not part of the normal line-up. Say we'd keep the entire Haven line-up from TotE without any chage, the Merc would be the Landsknecht, a whole different unit altogether. Just an example, I'm not advocating reusing the entire Haven line-up, or using the name Landsknecht as the name for the Merc. (though it would fit).
Uhhm that could eiter be just like building an alternative dwelling for the same tier as I suggested or adding more dwellings on the maps for te players to use. H3 had far more neutral dwellings. In H2 I used tose medusas a lot. This could be brougt back into the game.
I imagined it to happen at around that time. However I don't like the idea that it is devided 'tween "demonists and non-demonists". I imagined it to be lead by a powerhungry officer and backed by people, soldiers and Wizards who are fedd up with the indeciveness and 'bureaucracy' of the Wizards Council.
Ok no need to make demonist wizards, we already have a demon faction anyway. Maybe we culd make a Academy path related to desert like you said and a path more similar to what we have in H5.
I DO like dwarves. But my avatar is Dr. Eggman, who I like for be a driven World-dominator with a certain flair and a certain consience.
I also want to have a Lizard/Dinosaur faction, though not neceserally in the swamps as jungles or mangroves could work just as well. (sidenote: I think Naga should have a faction of their own, not be combined with Lizardmen)
I also do not want the Dwarves out, but I want to change them to be less Vikings and more Geals.
I say let's take the swamp creatures back in H6. Two building paths: Beasts/Lizards/Dinosaurs or Mesoamerican Town. No need merge with dwarves. Sure, Naga with teir own faction though I don't imagine what the units would be. FIrst I would need more insight on their society.
Colonisation of new lands, I have absolutely nothing against as it is a good plot-device. However I admit that my proposed Haven storyline needs much work.
Yes tis plot can actually introduce te Swamp Creatures back. The Humans discover the Mesoamerican build path of that town and the beasts building pat would be allied of the mesoamericans. Conflict Ensues. Only ting missing is the new units for Haven.
I want to debate this both. I think Orcs can be a nation for long, as long as they have strong and loved leaders like Gotai. I agree that chieftains and warlords would be at eachothers throats when a leader like this falls, but when a strong leader is succeeded by another strong leader, I think Orcs can remain a whole for and extended period of time.
The other thing I'd like to debate is that Orcs and Dwarves can't get along. I've always viewed them both as a rough, hardend people that enjoy a fight and a feast. Both have a high standard of Honour and both have, generally, proud and stubborn personallities. The only thing that keeps them appart is the conservative notion that Dwarves are inherantly Good and Orcs are inherantly Evil. But as I said I strongly dislike the Good vs Evil rigidity.
How would we civilize the orcs? Maybe some of them start to worship the Dragon of Light inspired by the Humans? So that leads to a different building path. The part of conflict with dwarves is just a plot device. We need to justify the presence of those factions and the fact there's conflict. I imagined that, as a establishing nation, as we are told on the endings of the orc campaign, they would need resources, so mining would lead to partial occupation of the underground and conflict with the dwarves. Not a good vs evil debate just the clash of interests.
Yes, I think the Dark Elves of HoMMV were a cheap and unimaginative race. That's why I'd like to be rid of them. Also the reason I'd let the Elves take in the Dark Elf refugees, to make them less Goody-Two-Shoes nature hippies, as the cliché often makes them. Sure the Elves are forrestdwellers and will protect their environment. But their attitude could be more sharpend.
I don't completely dislike the Dark Elfs but I don't find them special too. I like dark elfs like in AD&D: with dark skins and really evil. Let's make something go wrong with Slvan, they are always heroes or get away well in the story. As a plot we culd use tis: one of their mother trees was corrupted by demons, teir minds altered, and the creatures assume different characteristics leading t a different building path.
While I like the idea of expanding the Necromancers, I do not want to involve Aliens. Though the fact that they are weakened, is their own fault. Because, generally, Necros are vindictive, powerhungry megalomaniacs who are unable to share or unite by their own free will. The strength of Arantir, whom I liked, was that he was a powerfull, charismatic, intelligent leader who had a clear goal in mind. He was able to teach others and convice people of his just goal. Don't misunderstand me, he was in no way Good as he brutally wiped out anything that stood in his way and considered no sacrifice to high. The reason that the Necros fell apart after Arantir is that their megalomania would have them quickly go back to their old habits.
Yes maybe aliens is going to far, at least aliens with technology. However I came up with another building path for Necropolis: werebeasts (like werewolves). They are not undead but are nightstalkers and decide to work for them. Or undead werebeasts. We can also say the live on Heresh and are rising up against the necros. And believe me there are many kinds of werebeasts.
I say we do both. Give each faction a Might and Magic hero. Give them a set faction specific skill. and further allow them have multiple skills HoMMIII style. I found the HoMMV system of abilities and perks and required perks to unlock other perks to complex.
Ok consensus on having might and magic heroes. No problem in giving them a set of specific skills too. owerver I like the abilities system and think we should keep it.
I think we should make a choice. Either alternative tiers or alternative upgrades, not a bit of both. It would be messy to do both even if we keep to certain given tiers.
A lot of work indeed. The problem is deciding how the regular path is going to be. Are the creatures going to be the same for the regular building paths of some factions? If yes they wuld need some serious redesign and new abilities. Or we culd make completely new units, under the possible, for each faction and keep just the 2 upgrades for each unit.
Given a fanbase, there will always be modders. And you should not lock them out by locking code. But to modders it's half the challenge to do all the custom creations themselves. So as long as code isn't locked you're given modders something to play with.
Yes there are ver good modders. But I don't see any huge mods done for H5 at least yet, like adding a full new faction. I think there isn't a very strong tradition of moddding the game compared to what we see in other games.
True, we've not covered all of Ashan, but Sar Elam already made contact with Asha on the moon. So it is plausible that others could make contact with the moon.
Them let's see whats is missing so we can incrporate new units, building paths and factions. What would be tere on the moon besides Asha anyway?
Matt's:
Well my idea was never for 'all' the levels to have two base creatures, just 2 or 3, and I agree, one upgrade each for double-base tiers, and 7 creatures, gives 23-24 creatures total (it'd be kind of hard to find a Haven possible alternative to Angels for example).
It would be hard but not impossible. Dragon Knigts for instance (we choose their attributes anyway).
As far as an in-game creator goes, I fully agree with this,it has no place, but if it were to happen externally like a mod (eg, WotG for H3) I'd be more open to it.
I think it has place yes, you can create creatures to add variability to the game. That alone is a reason.
the spells side I'm okay with (I won't complain, but I can't really see the point), but interactive terrain is a different story, at least if it's on the adventure map and not the battlefield.
The point is t make the spells more visually attractive, making you feel good casting them. AS to interative terrain ok if its not in, we would have to have a faction tat uses terrain like burrowing t make it more relevant.
Well it's nowhere near perfect, but if you wanted we could work from this:
T1: Hunter > Atlatl Hunter / Harpooner
T2: Varanid > Savage Varanid / Varanid Stalker
T3: Testudine > Torrasque / Ograbme
T4: Warrior > Seasoned Warrior / Blessed Warrior
T5: Shaman > Bloodshaman / Boneshaman
T6: Wyvern > Gorynch / Peuchen (yes I know it's currently a Stronghold beast, but I've replaced it there)
T7: Mahamba > Cipactli / Tiamat
Good let your immagination go free and work on what you have.
what if you were to make a choice at the start that restricted you to one side of the upgrade tree (ie, for those tiers where you have two base creatures you get to chose one of them, and where you have double upgrade, again only one of them, or you could do something revolutionary like not choosing, which wiuld allow both upgrade, but no creatures at the double-base tiers.
Yes that I propose in a similar way and agree too: at least on single player campaign you have to choose one of 2 different building paths wit different dwellings for the same faction. Also revolutionary stuff is good with me too, as long it is good not H4-like. So we could, for instance, offer the player the option to build 2 dwellings of same tier, say dread knight and wraith in te same castle, but as a penalty he can't build the dwelling for the next tier. Or no penalty at all, he woudn't be able to buy everyting anyway.
Okay, fair enough, two heroes per town it is. Is each going to have the same race skill, or are we going for separate ones?
I vote for different starting skills based on might and magic hero. Also keeping racial skills, the abilities and perks system. BUT the developers should offer more in-game information, like a window where you could see all skills, abilities and perks and their connections, just like on the skill wheel on the Heroes of the Round Table site.
New Suggestions: Return of the combinable artifacts we saw on H3 SOD, keeping set artifacts too. Add as a game feature: Besides trying to find the tear of Asha the player can now find the "Blood of Urgash" if visiting a new type of building, chaos altars or something on that line. That would allow you to build a different building than the ones the tear provides.
Also we need to think the skill/abilities/magic system to add new features to it. I doubt H6 is just going to copy the skill/magic system from H5. This might be the most difficult thing to do for the whole project.. Or you guys think it is not such a big deal?
Sorry for the typos. we can't really avoid them, it is too much writing and reading. And I type fast.
Also a important suggestion: this thread here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=29757 has many interesting factions we would do well to add on the storyline, together with the swamp town. The one I liked the most is called "The Sewers", can anyone confirm they exist in Ashan or were created out of immagination? See if you guys like them. Also we could add the "Nagas" or "The Sanctuary" as they are known as a faction, that exist in Ashan so we would make a different, fun game. They are a culture based on the seas with far-eastern architecture: http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Naga_%28Ashan%29.
Rethinking the story to our project: After some serious thinking (I won't work tomorrow so I have plenty of time on my hands ;p) I'd like to ask you guys to think about dropping Sareth emmerging as a demon master in conflict with kha-beleth. Let's pick the good ending of DMOMM. It's the best way to make the game unique because we will be forced to use new factions and those factions will be the source of new features and units. I suggest we incorporate the Naga as a new threat alongside the mesoamerican/swamp town (with lizards too) and the sewers faction I mentioned earlier, whilst keeping good guys like haven. Of course all the other suggestions of internal struggles and other things we have been discussing would be kept. All old factions should have a new approach, if I may be so bold. I think if we keep all the factions from H5 it will get repetitive since there would be similar monsters with different designs (wizards for instance). The old factions should have a total different aproach, like Haven developing gunpowder or at least different units. I do not think all conflicts should be around demons vs angels, or good vs evil. So those new factions would have their own, peculiar reasons to be a new threat, not related to the demons. Isn't there grey on the world of Ashan? Aren't there disputes for power and dictators or fanatics with new gods? Plenty of opportunities to explore. The game would appear more like H2, without demons, more mysterious, while keeping the good aspects of H3 and H5.
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Asha uses all 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2009 07:59 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:09, 11 Sep 2009.
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Yep at least in multiplayer this should be done: 2 heroes fighting 2 other heroes at same time. Endless fun and new skill possibilities. For single player the Heroes could "merge" so, for instance, the same hero on the map would merge with another, but mantaining teir army cnfiguration the same.
I doubt merging would work any better than simply finding some way to control two heroes at once.
How would we civilize the orcs? Maybe some of them start to worship the Dragon of Light inspired by the Humans?
Doubtful. Remember, the humans used to keep the orcs as virtual slaves, so I don't think they'll be taking a leaf from their book any time soon.
Let's make something go wrong with Slvan, they are always heroes or get away well in the story. As a plot we culd use tis: one of their mother trees was corrupted by demons, teir minds altered, and the creatures assume different characteristics leading t a different building path.
Absolutely not. There's any number of ways that the E'ves can be brought down off their their pedestals, but demonic influence isn't one of them.
Yes maybe aliens is going to far, at least aliens with technology. However I came up with another building path for Necropolis: werebeasts (like werewolves). They are not undead but are nightstalkers and decide to work for them. Or undead werebeasts. We can also say the live on Heresh and are rising up against the necros. And believe me there are many kinds of werebeasts.
I suppose we could do this, or we could do my suggestion, and make it Vampires vs. Lichs.
owerver I like the abilities system and think we should keep it.
It's a good enough system, but a bit convoluted, so I'll suggest that with the exception of racial skills, there are no cross-skill requirements for abilites (as an example, with the Inferno skills, 'Weakening Strike' requiring 'Mark Of The Damned' is okay, because 'Mark Of The Damned' is a racial ability, however, the same wouldn't go for 'Dead Man's Curse' requiring 'Dark Renewal').
Yes there are ver good modders. But I don't see any huge mods done for H5 at least yet, like adding a full new faction. I think there isn't a very strong tradition of moddding the game compared to what we see in other games.
'Ghosts of the Past' looked pretty big to me. And who cares if mods don't add a whole new faction (I suspect that would be impossible to do without the source code), they can change the gameplay considerably (WoG for H3 made some big ones, like commanders and creature experience, and a load of other stuff as well), which can be more fun that any mere faction could provide.
I think it has place yes, you can create creatures to add variability to the game. That alone is a reason.
You'd have to rebuild half the game to make it work, so I don't think it's likely, and I'm certainly not going to agree to it.
The point is t make the spells more visually attractive, making you feel good casting them.
Well I really don't see the point, but I'll go along with it.
AS to interative terrain ok if its not in, we would have to have a faction tat uses terrain like burrowing t make it more relevant.
I don't see a need here really, but if something can be worked out I see no reason to keep it out, except that an all-flying (burrowing is essentially the same as flying) town might be too powerful.
Yes that I propose in a similar way and agree too: at least on single player campaign you have to choose one of 2 different building paths wit different dwellings for the same faction. Also revolutionary stuff is good with me too, as long it is good not H4-like. So we could, for instance, offer the player the option to build 2 dwellings of same tier, say dread knight and wraith in te same castle, but as a penalty he can't build the dwelling for the next tier. Or no penalty at all, he woudn't be able to buy everyting anyway.
Too complex, exclusive dwelling only occur on the same tier, not on different ones (ie, I 'like' the H4 method of exclusive dwellings).
New Suggestions: Return of the combinable artifacts we saw on H3 SOD, keeping set artifacts too. Add as a game feature: Besides trying to find the tear of Asha the player can now find the "Blood of Urgash" if visiting a new type of building, chaos altars or something on that line. That would allow you to build a different building than the ones the tear provides.
Actually, I wouldn't mind dropping the idea of a Grail (that's what it was called in H3 and 4) and returning to the H1 and 2 idea of an Ultimate Artefact (like the Grail, but gives different bonuses depending on which artefact it is). As for combination artefacts, I think it works fine the way it does now.
Also we need to think the skill/abilities/magic system to add new features to it. I doubt H6 is just going to copy the skill/magic system from H5. This might be the most difficult thing to do for the whole project.. Or you guys think it is not such a big deal?
It's not such a big deal really, I mean, the only difference between the H2 and H3 skill systems was the number of skills available (14 in H2, 28 in H3), so I can't see any reason not to do something of the same here (albeit, I'd like to simplify it a bit).
Rethinking the story to our project: After some serious thinking (I won't work tomorrow so I have plenty of time on my hands ;p) I'd like to ask you guys to think about dropping Sareth emmerging as a demon master in conflict with kha-beleth. Let's pick the good ending of DMOMM. It's the best way to make the game unique because we will be forced to use new factions and those factions will be the source of new features and units. I suggest we incorporate the Naga as a new threat alongside the mesoamerican/swamp town (with lizards too) and the sewers faction I mentioned earlier, whilst keeping good guys like haven. Of course all the other suggestions of internal struggles and other things we have been discussing would be kept. All old factions should have a new approach, if I may be so bold. I think if we keep all the factions from H5 it will get repetitive since there would be similar monsters with different designs (wizards for instance). The old factions should have a total different aproach, like Haven developing gunpowder or at least different units. I do not think all conflicts should be around demons vs angels, or good vs evil. So those new factions would have their own, peculiar reasons to be a new threat, not related to the demons. Isn't there grey on the world of Ashan? Aren't there disputes for power and dictators or fanatics with new gods? Plenty of opportunities to explore. The game would appear more like H2, without demons, more mysterious, while keeping the good aspects of H3 and H5.
Actually, the main 'baddies' are probably going to be the Faceless, or their followers at least, who want to kill the Angels for what they did in the Elder Wars. This isn't to say that the other ideas can't also be used, just that they probably won't be the main plot.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 11, 2009 12:33 PM |
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what if you were to make a choice at the start that restricted you to one side of the upgrade tree (ie, for those tiers where you have two base creatures you get to chose one of them, and where you have double upgrade, again only one of them, or you could do something revolutionary like not choosing, which wiuld allow both upgrade, but no creatures at the double-base tiers.
Sorry but I do not see the use of this, if you choose what side of the tree you get from the start, you might as wel make it an different faction.
Okay, so you get one merc creature type per town type, which is available in all allied towns, have I got it right now?
Yep, you got it.
Oh, I have the abilities to go with them, I just didn't want to clutter up the lineup by posting them.
I was not talking about abilities. I was talking about a "physical description" in the line of 'Lizardman shooter armed with Javelin'.
Does he dontact Asha, or does she(he? it?) contact him?
He contact's Asha through his advanced magical studies.
Okay, fair enough, two heroes per town it is. Is each going to have the same race skill, or are we going for separate ones?
I was thinking in the same. But we may have to adapt it to be usefull to both, or usefull alltogether. (Never realy saw use in the Irrestisable Magic skill)
Yeah my idea was to make basically two building paths for each faction. I think we have enough ideas for this! For example: Dark Elf Dungeon and related dwellings and Minotaur Dungeon and related dwellings. In the campaigns you would have to choose one of the paths. In single-player maps and multiplayer you could build alternative dwellings for the same faction, you would be not bound by one path only.
I thought we agreed on having factions having a Core-race. Splitting Dungeon into a Minotaurside and a Dark Elfside sounds like mashing 2 factions into the same town, especially if they are at war with eachother. No, if we do make alternate tiers, they should be of the same racial background.
Yes, that would be two building paths for each town and not necessarily evil. In the campaigns you would have to be bound by one path or the other but in single-player maps and multiplayer the user could build alternative dwellings for the same tier. Example: tier 1 dark elf or tier 1 minotaur for dungeon.
Again, I say that alternate tiers should be of the same background. Also while I'm not against limiting the alternates in the campaign, I think it should be done so in the beginning only and have the player experience both sides and have them merge near the middle or the end. Also I think the player should not be forced to choose between them. Say the first scenario you get one side of the tree, the second you get the other. In the third or fourth scenario, one side conquers/ allies the other and you get to choose from both.
Uhhm that could eiter be just like building an alternative dwelling for the same tier as I suggested or adding more dwellings on the maps for te players to use. H3 had far more neutral dwellings. In H2 I used tose medusas a lot. This could be brougt back into the game.
No, not quite, it's adding a creature that falls between tiers and that is only useable by Heroes. They are essentially neutral, but your choices are limited in return for no penalties for use of them.
As for neutrals, I'm all for that. We should bring more neutral creatures to the game. They do however count as normal creatures with the apropriate penalties and not as Mercenaries.
I say let's take the swamp creatures back in H6. Two building paths: Beasts/Lizards/Dinosaurs or Mesoamerican Town. No need merge with dwarves. Sure, Naga with teir own faction though I don't imagine what the units would be. FIrst I would need more insight on their society.
Again I say, let's not go into faction specifics untill we got the basis covered.
How would we civilize the orcs? Maybe some of them start to worship the Dragon of Light inspired by the Humans? So that leads to a different building path. The part of conflict with dwarves is just a plot device. We need to justify the presence of those factions and the fact there's conflict. I imagined that, as a establishing nation, as we are told on the endings of the orc campaign, they would need resources, so mining would lead to partial occupation of the underground and conflict with the dwarves. Not a good vs evil debate just the clash of interests.
I think we should not further civilise the Orcs much. They are barbaric, they should stay that way. As for conflict due to conflicting interests, I'm all for that, as it increases depth.
I don't completely dislike the Dark Elfs but I don't find them special too. I like dark elfs like in AD&D: with dark skins and really evil. Let's make something go wrong with Slvan, they are always heroes or get away well in the story. As a plot we culd use tis: one of their mother trees was corrupted by demons, teir minds altered, and the creatures assume different characteristics leading t a different building path.
As far as different building paths go to represent the classical and dark elves, I'm all for that. But I'm against the Demon influences. I thought you did not want the Demons to be the Ultimate badguys this time around. Also, there was only one Mother tree and that one burnt down in the year 500-and-something. (Don't feel like looking it up)
However I came up with another building path for Necropolis: werebeasts (like werewolves). They are not undead but are nightstalkers and decide to work for them. Or undead werebeasts. We can also say the live on Heresh and are rising up against the necros. And believe me there are many kinds of werebeasts.
I'm not against using Werebeasts as alternates. It's actually a nice idea, but we should not make it one half of a town firstly. And secondly, we should have half a town ally with the other only to rise up against them. (For Necropolis, it's not a bad idea to use a few living creatures(wherebeasts, Black Guards etc.)but we should come up with a certain skill that makes their morale not affected by the presence of undead)
Ok consensus on having might and magic heroes. No problem in giving them a set of specific skills too. owerver I like the abilities system and think we should keep it.
Ok, how about this then, we keep the abilities and perks. But we simplify it. Say you get the Defence ability for your Hero, once you have gotten Expert Defence, you get the choice to specialised perk. The perk may be something like increasing basic health, or extra defence against physical attacks. You only get to choose one perk, but you get to choose it as soon as you reach Expert and not need to level up agaian to choose it.
A lot of work indeed. The problem is deciding how the regular path is going to be. Are the creatures going to be the same for the regular building paths of some factions? If yes they wuld need some serious redesign and new abilities. Or we culd make completely new units, under the possible, for each faction and keep just the 2 upgrades for each unit.
Not quite following you here. Again I say we should make a choice here. Alternating in Upgrades or in Tiers.
What would be tere on the moon besides Asha anyway?
They were able to lock Demons inside the Planets core. In some ancient age, they could have banished some kind of threat to the moon. I used this idea already in my Mound Entry for ICTC4.
Also revolutionary stuff is good with me too, as long it is good not H4-like. So we could, for instance, offer the player the option to build 2 dwellings of same tier, say dread knight and wraith in te same castle, but as a penalty he can't build the dwelling for the next tier. Or no penalty at all, he woudn't be able to buy everyting anyway.
I'm actually for using a HoMMIV way of making differntiations. Choosing Tier2A excludes building Tier2B. I think being able to build two Tier X dwellings and with that excluding any Tier Y buildings would make things a bit messy. We should make things more structured, as it is easier to balance things when they are better structured.
Ok, guys. I'll continue this later, as I have to go to college in a couple of minutes. I'll try to finish this when I come back. However do not hesitate to give comments on my comments. Also do not understand me wrong, I may come across stuborn, but I am enjoying this, searching for a compromise we can all agree on, a whole lot.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2009 01:37 PM |
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Sorry but I do not see the use of this, if you choose what side of the tree you get from the start, you might as wel make it an different faction.
Okay, fair enough, I just pulled the idea from my Conflux town in my personal proposal (where you were able to choose two elements to focus on, to the exclusion of the others).
I was not talking about abilities. I was talking about a "physical description" in the line of 'Lizardman shooter armed with Javelin'.
Ah, right, thanks for clearing that up.
I was thinking in the same. But we may have to adapt it to be usefull to both, or usefull alltogether. (Never realy saw use in the Irrestisable Magic skill)
I thought we agreed on having factions having a Core-race. Splitting Dungeon into a Minotaurside and a Dark Elfside sounds like mashing 2 factions into the same town, especially if they are at war with eachother. No, if we do make alternate tiers, they should be of the same racial background.
Totally agreed, ie, tier 3 Dungeon could be either a minotaur armed with a huge axe, or with a couple of throwing-axes.
Also, there was only one Mother tree and that one burnt down in the year 500-and-something. (Don't feel like looking it up)
566, but they consecrated another one later (the Mother Tree would seem to be the elven capital, thus there was nothing particularly special about the tree that was destroyed, it was just the one they'd picked at the time).
Ok, how about this then, we keep the abilities and perks. But we simplify it. Say you get the Defence ability for your Hero, once you have gotten Expert Defence, you get the choice to specialised perk. The perk may be something like increasing basic health, or extra defence against physical attacks. You only get to choose one perk, but you get to choose it as soon as you reach Expert and not need to level up agaian to choose it.
I think that would require adding a few more skills, because there's an awful lot of skills that were in H3, that are now just one-off abilities, and having to pick between them could be difficult (ie, after reaching Expert enlightenment, would you go for Intelligence or Scholar?).
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 11, 2009 03:47 PM |
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Return of the combinable artifacts we saw on H3 SOD, keeping set artifacts too. Add as a game feature: Besides trying to find the tear of Asha the player can now find the "Blood of Urgash" if visiting a new type of building, chaos altars or something on that line. That would allow you to build a different building than the ones the tear provides.
This is a nice idea, but I don't yet see what the difference would be. Please explain a bit more.
Also we need to think the skill/abilities/magic system to add new features to it. I doubt H6 is just going to copy the skill/magic system from H5. This might be the most difficult thing to do for the whole project..
As I proposed earlies, think it should be simplified.
Also a important suggestion: this thread here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=29757 has many interesting factions we would do well to add on the storyline,
Don't you think it is more fun to create the new factions ourselves? I certainly do. I'd rather use things we came up with ourselves, than to completely borrow someone else's concepts.
Rethinking the story to our project: After some serious thinking (I won't work tomorrow so I have plenty of time on my hands ;p) I'd like to ask you guys to think about dropping Sareth emmerging as a demon master in conflict with kha-beleth. Let's pick the good ending of DMOMM. It's the best way to make the game unique because we will be forced to use new factions and those factions will be the source of new features and units. I suggest we incorporate the Naga as a new threat alongside the mesoamerican/swamp town (with lizards too) and the sewers faction I mentioned earlier, whilst keeping good guys like haven. Of course all the other suggestions of internal struggles and other things we have been discussing would be kept. All old factions should have a new approach, if I may be so bold. I think if we keep all the factions from H5 it will get repetitive since there would be similar monsters with different designs (wizards for instance). The old factions should have a total different aproach, like Haven developing gunpowder or at least different units. I do not think all conflicts should be around demons vs angels, or good vs evil. So those new factions would have their own, peculiar reasons to be a new threat, not related to the demons. Isn't there grey on the world of Ashan? Aren't there disputes for power and dictators or fanatics with new gods? Plenty of opportunities to explore. The game would appear more like H2, without demons, more mysterious, while keeping the good aspects of H3 and H5.
Personally I'd regret dropping the Demons. They could become an interesting faction, if we give it some work. I agree that they are a bit cliché ATM, but we could change that. Maybe I have not been clear enough, but the way I imagined it, Sareth already killed Kha'Belleth to take the Demonthrone for himself but is now getting a surprising amount of resistance from demons still loyal to his father. As for most of you're other suggestions of other internal conflicts, I'm all for that. All we need to do is not write in a Great Demon War, when the Demons launch a massive escape during an Eclipse. That way the Demons are not the world-threatening force, but one that has it's own political dealings and is negotialble.
I think that would require adding a few more skills, because there's an awful lot of skills that were in H3, that are now just one-off abilities, and having to pick between them could be difficult (ie, after reaching Expert enlightenment, would you go for Intelligence or Scholar?).
Oh I agree. If we go with this system, we'd need to add quite some skills to get up to scratch. Also we'd have to redesing a whole lot of perks.
Ok guys. I think we need to once and for all decide which way we're gonna go: Alternate Tiers or Alternate Upgrades ?
I'm fine and can work with either one, but I do not wish to work with a bit of both. This is mainly because I'd really like to make something workable and not end up with something that we'll regret later.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2009 09:46 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:46, 11 Sep 2009.
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This is a nice idea, but I don't yet see what the difference would be. Please explain a bit more.
What about dropping the Grail Idea altogether and going back to Ultimate Artifacts like in H1-2?
Don't you think it is more fun to create the new factions ourselves? I certainly do. I'd rather use things we came up with ourselves, than to completely borrow someone else's concepts.
Yeah, besides, designing faction is one of the best, if hardest, parts.
Personally I'd regret dropping the Demons. They could become an interesting faction, if we give it some work. I agree that they are a bit cliché ATM, but we could change that. Maybe I have not been clear enough, but the way I imagined it, Sareth already killed Kha'Belleth to take the Demonthrone for himself but is now getting a surprising amount of resistance from demons still loyal to his father. As for most of you're other suggestions of other internal conflicts, I'm all for that. All we need to do is not write in a Great Demon War, when the Demons launch a massive escape during an Eclipse. That way the Demons are not the world-threatening force, but one that has it's own political dealings and is negotialble.
And we're still keeping the Dungeon-Haven war as well right?
Ok guys. I think we need to once and for all decide which way we're gonna go: Alternate Tiers or Alternate Upgrades ?
Okay, despite all my support for alternative tiers, I can't see it really working for a lot of the towns (Haven especially).
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 11, 2009 10:38 PM |
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What about dropping the Grail Idea altogether and going back to Ultimate Artifacts like in H1-2?
Why? What are those ultimate artifacts other than just verry powerfull items? What's your beef with Grail/Tear Buildings ?
And we're still keeping the Dungeon-Haven war as well right?
As far as I'm concerned we are. However the whole idea of this competition is to create something all members agree on. So if Knight is adamant about ditching the idea, we ain't using it.
Okay, despite all my support for alternative tiers, I can't see it really working for a lot of the towns (Haven especially).
I think I can make it work for every faction, if I put my head around it. It may take slightly longer. So don't let that inlfuence you. But If you're sure it won't work, you vote counts.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2009 11:36 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:45, 11 Sep 2009.
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Why? What are those ultimate artifacts other than just verry powerfull items? What's your beef with Grail/Tear Buildings ?
Frankly, it's boring, all you'll ever do is drag the thing back to your capital and build the Grail Building, but with an Ultimate Artifact you can equip it to one of your main heroes (you'd have to choose which one, because each gives different bonuses) and then launch an all-out war on the enemy (be careful though, because a good Wizard with a few stacks of Golems and Djinn is going to be a problem, no matter how big your army is, and how much better that Sword of Might makes you).
I think I can make it work for every faction, if I put my head around it. It may take slightly longer. So don't let that inlfuence you. But If you're sure it won't work, you vote counts.
No, upgrades can provide enough variability for my tastes (for example, with Haven, the Squire is the defensive upgrade of the Footman, the Vindicator is far more offensive, so the tactics for using them are likely to be totally different), and I just can't see that alternate base creatures wouldn't lead to many of the towns feeling either mashed-up, or boring.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 01:07 AM |
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Ok my comments of your comments of my comments we commented earlier (just kidding  and you can both repond to what I comment to both of you, it is actually better):
Matt’s:
I doubt merging would work any better than simply finding some way to control two heroes at once.
It would work like this: you have hero A and hero B from your faction. Hero B moves toward hero A and on the exchange screen there would be a button "merge" (temporary of course). Than you could either attack enemy heroes that are alone, surprising them, or counter other merged armies. The battlefield would be bigger and there would be hero A and hero B from faction 1 against hero A and hero B from faction 2. Why all that you ask? Because that would add a new layer os strategic thinking to the game, new related skills and a lot of fun! It could be implemmented ate least on multiplayer so we would have a different duel mode to play there.
Doubtful. Remember, the humans used to keep the orcs as virtual slaves, so I don't think they'll be taking a leaf from their book any time soon.
Yeah good point. But we are going to have to rethink the orcs or if they are going to be on the first release and not on a expansion because there would not be much unit differentiation. It would be like H5.5. We could drop te orcs for the initial release and put a new faction on their place.
Absolutely not. There's any number of ways that the E'ves can be brought down off their their pedestals, but demonic influence isn't one of them.
I don't understand you here, maybe you know something I don't, but why are elves impervious to demonic corruption via spells, artifacts, rituals, etc? Anyway we gotta think something for the sylvan elfs, maybe add variations under their own race, like aquatic elf, mountain elf, elf with wings, etc.
I suppose we could do this, or we could do my suggestion, and make it Vampires vs. Lichs.
Yes I vote for necros to be in since they are my favorite faction ;P. And I just love te Ravenloft universe from AD&D so adding werebeasts would be just wonderfull. Not to mention they could be a entire new faction.
It's a good enough system, but a bit convoluted, so I'll suggest that with the exception of racial skills, there are no cross-skill requirements for abilites (as an example, with the Inferno skills, 'Weakening Strike' requiring 'Mark Of The Damned' is okay, because 'Mark Of The Damned' is a racial ability, however, the same wouldn't go for 'Dead Man's Curse' requiring 'Dark Renewal').
I like the cross-requirements. I just think that they should have been better explained within the game. Like with a screen showing you all the skills, abilities, etc. and their requirements.
'Ghosts of the Past' looked pretty big to me. And who cares if mods don't add a whole new faction (I suspect that would be impossible to do without the source code), they can change the gameplay considerably (WoG for H3 made some big ones, like commanders and creature experience, and a load of other stuff as well), which can be more fun that any mere faction could provide.
My point was that probably no one is going t do a "create your creature tool" anyway. It would be much easier if it was shipped with the game. But seeing as you are both against it I can only ask you guys to give it a second thought.
You'd have to rebuild half the game to make it work, so I don't think it's likely, and I'm certainly not going to agree to it.
My opinion on this is that if players can create their own creatures it would e fun and entertaining. At least to use them as neutrals and for neutral dwellings on the map. That is it, no need to rebuild alf te game for that.
Well I really don't see the point, but I'll go along with it. (more effects to spells).
Ok then. The point is making the visuals of the spells more attractive and epic so that you feel like a powerfull magician when casting it. The visuals are a important aspect of the game and makes it sell better. One of the things that made H2 one of the best games of all time, imo, were such things as peculiar sound effects and visuals.
I don't see a need here really, but if something can be worked out I see no reason to keep it out, except that an all-flying (burrowing is essentially the same as flying) town might be too powerful.
Yes let's keep this idea on the shelf then. If we have some factin to use it all the better. However some new spells I'm going to suggest involve alteration of the enviroment.
Too complex, exclusive dwelling only occur on the same tier, not on different ones (ie, I 'like' the H4 method of exclusive dwellings).
It maybe too complex for us to do but the developers can pull it out (alternative dwellings AND alternative upgrades).
Actually, I wouldn't mind dropping the idea of a Grail (that's what it was called in H3 and 4) and returning to the H1 and 2 idea of an Ultimate Artefact (like the Grail, but gives different bonuses depending on which artefact it is). As for combination artefacts, I think it works fine the way it does now.
I think Ubisoft and the new developers like to leave their mark on the game so they would not go back to something that was developed for H1 and H2. As for combination artifacts I think they are really cool. Have you played with them on SOD? Some neat artifacts you got from combinations and it is better than your ero being a walking museum of unused artifacts. And we keep te set artifacts too, so no loss.
It's not such a big deal really, I mean, the only difference between the H2 and H3 skill systems was the number of skills available (14 in H2, 28 in H3), so I can't see any reason not to do something of the same here (albeit, I'd like to simplify it a bit).
I'd like to give more skills to the heroes like in H3. We can create new skills so there would be more choices to make and fill tose slots. Certainly, wit te new factions, we can create a lot of new skills.
Actually, the main 'baddies' are probably going to be the Faceless, or their followers at least, who want to kill the Angels for what they did in the Elder Wars. This isn't to say that the other ideas can't also be used, just that they probably won't be the main plot.
I'm ok with that as a part of the story, let the few faceless pull some strings to get their revenge. They don't have much motivations besides that and figting demons anyway..
I think that would require adding a few more skills, because there's an awful lot of skills that were in H3, that are now just one-off abilities, and having to pick between them could be difficult (ie, after reaching Expert enlightenment, would you go for Intelligence or Scholar?).
We will create new skills for the new factions and/or skills good for everyone.
Yeah, besides, designing faction is one of the best, if hardest, parts.
Sure but we should develop them together then, because its a load of work and we may not like our individual creations (like you not liking my insects).
And we're still keeping the Dungeon-Haven war as well right?
For me it's ok as a part of the story. We should probably add beholders too, they are simply too cool to be forgotten, not only focus on minotaurs. We can drop the dark elfs if you guys wish too, as I said I like the AD&D dark elfs, evil elfs with evil gods and intentions.
Okay, despite all my support for alternative tiers, I can't see it really working for a lot of the towns (Haven especially).
We are going to have to use our imaginations. The story I suggested of Haven discovering new lands would lead to some converted natives (from the swamp/mesoamerican town) so there would e new units.
Overlord’s
Sorry but I do not see the use of this, if you choose what side of the tree you get from the start, you might as wel make it an different faction.
Ok, drop the two different building paths for each faction that you would choose in the beginning since that would lead to two different factions within one faction. BUT we can keep both the alternative tier buildings and upgrades to the factions we choose. Don't worry we have lots of ideas and there are going to be like what? Six factions on the initial release like every other game from the series? We can do it. I doubt the developers are ging to release more than that on the H6 without expansions. Also, I play RPG since I was 6 years old, Ha! I'm a botttomless pit of ideas xp
I was thinking in the same. But we may have to adapt it to be usefull to both, or usefull alltogether. (Never realy saw use in the Irrestisable Magic skill).
We can have both the might and magic heroes for each factions with exclusive initial skill, related to both the might or magic aspects. We can create the skills too.
I thought we agreed on having factions having a Core-race. Splitting Dungeon into a Minotaurside and a Dark Elfside sounds like mashing 2 factions into the same town, especially if they are at war with eachother. No, if we do make alternate tiers, they should be of the same racial background.
Ok I see your point, it would lead to two factions whithin one faction. I suggest we keep the alternative upgrades and tier dwellings as I said on a previous response here on this same post.
Again, I say that alternate tiers should be of the same background. Also while I'm not against limiting the alternates in the campaign, I think it should be done so in the beginning only and have the player experience both sides and have them merge near the middle or the end. Also I think the player should not be forced to choose between them. Say the first scenario you get one side of the tree, the second you get the other. In the third or fourth scenario, one side conquers/ allies the other and you get to choose from both.
Ok no problem keep the same background and drop those dark elfs hehe. Experimenting with alternative dwellings for each tier is what we should mantain, along with alternative upgrade. It would make an awesome game. And remember we are talking of releasing a whole new game here. There must be improvements and new features or it would be like H5.5.
No, not quite, it's adding a creature that falls between tiers and that is only useable by Heroes. They are essentially neutral, but your choices are limited in return for no penalties for use of them.
As for neutrals, I'm all for that. We should bring more neutral creatures to the game. They do however count as normal creatures with the apropriate penalties and not as Mercenaries.
It would be like hiring mercenaries in the games of the Total War series? That could be done, since H5 lacked netral dwellings on the map on my opinion. However it would make those same neutral dwellings useless don't you think? One would say: "I can hire mercenaries aynway so why bother going to neutral dwellings? I spent my money already on the mercs and they are better, more readily available troops".
Again I say, let's not go into faction specifics untill we got the basis covered.
And I suggest, like I suggested when responding to Matt: let's develop the new fations together, otherwhise we may not like each other's creations and it a load of work to think and write down a entire new faction, just not to use it.
I think we should not further civilise the Orcs much. They are barbaric, they should stay that way. As for conflict due to conflicting interests, I'm all for that, as it increases depth.
I think we should drop the orcs from the initial release of H6 in favour of a new and interesting faction, like the nagas and such. The orcs can come back on expansions since we woudn't have much to work with them. They fight demons, and demons should not be the focus now.
As far as different building paths go to represent the classical and dark elves, I'm all for that. But I'm against the Demon influences. I thought you did not want the Demons to be the Ultimate badguys this time around. Also, there was only one Mother tree and that one burnt down in the year 500-and-something. (Don't feel like looking it up).
We can make the Sylvan faction different by adding different races of elfs, like sea elfs, winged elfs, golden elfs, etc. They would be the alternative tiers with their own alternative upgrades. No need to make two obligatry building paths indeed. And yes we can drop the demon corruption in favour of that idea I just suggested.
I'm not against using Werebeasts as alternates. It's actually a nice idea, but we should not make it one half of a town firstly. And secondly, we should have half a town ally with the other only to rise up against them. (For Necropolis, it's not a bad idea to use a few living creatures(wherebeasts, Black Guards etc.)but we should come up with a certain skill that makes their morale not affected by the presence of undead).
Good that you liked the werebeasts. They would be the alternative tier dwellingas or at least some of the alternatives. They would make the Necropolis more Ravenloft-like which is just wonderfull. We can develop skills related to them easily.
Ok, how about this then, we keep the abilities and perks. But we simplify it. Say you get the Defence ability for your Hero, once you have gotten Expert Defence, you get the choice to specialised perk. The perk may be something like increasing basic health, or extra defence against physical attacks. You only get to choose one perk, but you get to choose it as soon as you reach Expert and not need to level up agaian to choose it.
I think the system just needed to be better explained whitin the game. Like I said, wit a screen detailing skills, abilities, perks, etc. I actually think the heroes should have more skill slots (8).
Not quite following you here. Again I say we should make a choice here. Alternating in Upgrades or in Tiers.
We can keep both man, trust me. As I said on a previous reply the games on the series aren't first released with like 12 races. So we can work well on 6 or so factions. Better to make fewer factions but very well done and with new content and features then a load of factions with 1 upgrade! More factions can be added on future expansions.
They were able to lock Demons inside the Planets core. In some ancient age, they could have banished some kind of threat to the moon. I used this idea already in my Mound Entry for ICTC4.
Ok I suppose they could be locked on the moon too, but those demons are everywhere aren't they?  I suggest we make them secondary to the initial release. Let them rot on their prisons. Let them come back on a expansion. Let's fight Nagas and others now for a change.
This is a nice idea, but I don't yet see what the difference would be. Please explain a bit more. (combinable artifacts and blood of urgash).
Ok so you agree on bringing back the combinable artifacts from H3 SOD? They were really good and we would keep the set artifacts too so no loss.
As to the "blood of urgash idea" it would be an alternative to the tears of asha. Like in the same map you have the regular obelisks for tears but also a "chaos altar" where you could partially learn the location of a drop of blood from urgash, just like the tear. But the blood of urgash would give a different building for each race, with different properties than the ones given by the tears. We can imagine that easily for each faction too, after they are finished.
Don't you think it is more fun to create the new factions ourselves? I certainly do. I'd rather use things we came up with ourselves, than to completely borrow someone else's concepts.
Sure but as I said on another reply let's develop them together to avoid the risk of wasting time.
Personally I'd regret dropping the Demons. They could become an interesting faction, if we give it some work. I agree that they are a bit cliché ATM, but we could change that. Maybe I have not been clear enough, but the way I imagined it, Sareth already killed Kha'Belleth to take the Demonthrone for himself but is now getting a surprising amount of resistance from demons still loyal to his father. As for most of you're other suggestions of other internal conflicts, I'm all for that. All we need to do is not write in a Great Demon War, when the Demons launch a massive escape during an Eclipse. That way the Demons are not the world-threatening force, but one that has it's own political dealings and is negotialble.
I don't like the idea of the return of the demons for the main plot because it is just too repetitive, even with Sareth. He would be just another Agrael-like character. Unless we can come up with really new and interesting units. Otherwhise it would be succubus, dog, devil and such all over again. For that we have H3 and H5 already.
Ok guys. I think we need to once and for all decide which way we're gonna go: Alternate Tiers or Alternate Upgrades?
Let's go both, as I said, we can do it. There are going to be what? Like 5 or 6 factions on the initial release. We choose that ammount and work on those. And as we are introducing new races and having already ideas for existing ones I see no problem on keeping both alternative upgrades and alternative tiers. We can do it. It is a new, solid feature to the game and would add much to its replayability, strategical value and fun.
As far as I'm concerned we are (keeping te faceless). However the whole idea of this competition is to create something all members agree on. So if Knight is adamant about ditching the idea, we ain't using it.
No problem with keeping the Faceless for the story of the new dungeon faction, conflicting with Haven, however they would only pull the strings on the new dungeon town (like being heroes). They can't be any kind of troop. Also, let's not forget my other idea of Haven meeting the swamp/mesoamerican town when discovering new lands so we can keep both, and center the main plot around how the Griffin Empire is attacked on two sides. I suggest too that the Nagas come later to make things worst. The Sylvan continues as good guys with their new races to help the humans. The other race would be the necros and their werebeasts but we would have to make a plot for them to fit in, and decide if the wizards are going to be in (not much different to do wit the wizards anyway). Drop the Wizards for The Naga to conflict with the Necros and Haven. Wizards, Dwarves, Orcs and Demons come back on future expansions, we're sick of them anyway xD. Just a summary of a plot we can already muster.
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 02:45 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 02:49, 12 Sep 2009.
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It would work like this: you have hero A and hero B from your faction. Hero B moves toward hero A and on the exchange screen there would be a button "merge" (temporary of course). Than you could either attack enemy heroes that are alone, surprising them, or counter other merged armies. The battlefield would be bigger and there would be hero A and hero B from faction 1 against hero A and hero B from faction 2. Why all that you ask? Because that would add a new layer os strategic thinking to the game, new related skills and a lot of fun! It could be implemmented ate least on multiplayer so we would have a different duel mode to play there.
Again, it offers no advantages over being able to control both armies at the same time, except in regards to one hero having better support skills than the other, and even then that could be worked in without needing to merge the armies.
Yeah good point. But we are going to have to rethink the orcs or if they are going to be on the first release and not on a expansion because there would not be much unit differentiation. It would be like H5.5. We could drop te orcs for the initial release and put a new faction on their place.
Depending on the story, I'd rather leave the demons out of vanilla, just to give us a chance to develop other story-lines (including possibly, an Orcs vs. Lizardmen).
I don't understand you here, maybe you know something I don't, but why are elves impervious to demonic corruption via spells, artifacts, rituals, etc? Anyway we gotta think something for the sylvan elfs, maybe add variations under their own race, like aquatic elf, mountain elf, elf with wings, etc.
This is set years after the last invasion, there's no way the corrupted town could have gone undetected. A better way I see of introducing tension is in the elves disagreeing over whether to grant the dark elves asylum. Also, let's not over-complicate things with a dozen groups of one race, if we really need to we can always split it into forest elves (those who accept the dark elves, on condition) and high elves (those who don't accept the dark elves).
Yes I vote for necros to be in since they are my favorite faction ;P. And I just love te Ravenloft universe from AD&D so adding werebeasts would be just wonderfull. Not to mention they could be a entire new faction.
Werebeasts are a possibility, but let's not forget that we haven't really exhausted the true undead yet, I mean we have Ghouls, Hulks (aka flesh golems, Frankenstein's monsters, etc.), and even, if we're willing to go in that direction, beast zombies/beast hulks (beyond dragons I mean). If we do go with a Vampires vs. Lichs theme, we could also give the Vampires a bit more culture (ie, vampires could live in clans, which would require heirarchies, and they would probably keep slaves, and maybe beasts).
I like the cross-requirements. I just think that they should have been better explained within the game. Like with a screen showing you all the skills, abilities, etc. and their requirements.
Cross requirements between the racial and normal skills I'm okay with, but cross requirements between normal skills I'm not. The main reason I'm against normal skills doing it is because you might not always want or need a particular normal skill, so having to get it just because it has a few perks you want could be aggravating, however the same wouldn't happen with the racial, because every hero gets it.
My opinion on this is that if players can create their own creatures it would e fun and entertaining. At least to use them as neutrals and for neutral dwellings on the map. That is it, no need to rebuild alf te game for that.
I'm still against it being in the game itself (you'd need dozens, maybe even hundreds of extra animations, so why not save a bit of time and stick in extra neutrals, or even out-of-town creatures like they had in H4?), although I've nothing against them making it easier to make a mod to do it.
Ok then. The point is making the visuals of the spells more attractive and epic so that you feel like a powerfull magician when casting it. The visuals are a important aspect of the game and makes it sell better. One of the things that made H2 one of the best games of all time, imo, were such things as peculiar sound effects and visuals.
Okay, what about the spells getting a bit 'bigger' (animation wise) or fancier as you go from basic to advanced to expert?
Yes let's keep this idea on the shelf then. If we have some factin to use it all the better. However some new spells I'm going to suggest involve alteration of the enviroment.
If it's just on the battlefield I'll agree, otherwise, no.
I think Ubisoft and the new developers like to leave their mark on the game so they would not go back to something that was developed for H1 and H2.
H3 and H4 weren't theirs either. Besides, this isn't about what they would do, this is about what we would like them to do, and I'd prefer the Grail gone, because it's as boring as hell really.
As for combination artifacts I think they are really cool. Have you played with them on SOD? Some neat artifacts you got from combinations and it is better than your ero being a walking museum of unused artifacts. And we keep te set artifacts too, so no loss.
Combo. artefacts and artefact sets fill the same function, allowing a bunch of artefacts to have a greater effect cumulatively than individually, the only difference being that the bonus provided by an artefact set can be graduated, whereas with a combo. artifact it's all or nothing.
We are going to have to use our imaginations. The story I suggested of Haven discovering new lands would lead to some converted natives (from the swamp/mesoamerican town) so there would e new units.
Probably not actually, unless the natives are also human, I mean how far would the Spanish have got in Central/South America without gunpowder, and without half the natives getting wiped out by diseases? Not very far I shouldn't think.
Ok no problem keep the same background and drop those dark elfs hehe. Experimenting with alternative dwellings for each tier is what we should mantain, along with alternative upgrade. It would make an awesome game. And remember we are talking of releasing a whole new game here. There must be improvements and new features or it would be like H5.5.
Alternative base creatures could get very boring, especially for towns like Haven. besides, we'll have more than enough new stuff in (new factions, new skills, lots of new spells probably, new features like dual-hero battles, etc.) to be able to call it a new game.
I think we should drop the orcs from the initial release of H6 in favour of a new and interesting faction, like the nagas and such. The orcs can come back on expansions since we woudn't have much to work with them. They fight demons, and demons should not be the focus now.
The orcs will fight anyone they don't like, be they demons, humans, dwarves or undead. Besides, they're the closest group to the jungles, so dropping them doesn't make all that much sense.
Also, let's not forget my other idea of Haven meeting the swamp/mesoamerican town when discovering new lands so we can keep both, and center the main plot around how the Griffin Empire is attacked on two sides.
Have you had a look at the map of Ashan lately? The jungles (where the Lizardmen live) are on the far side of the Golden Steppe, ie, the Lizardmen will run into the Orc before they hit the Empire. Following that they'll either have to cross The Broken Lands and Lost Palaedra, or The Doom Sea before they even reach the edge of the Empire, so the chances of them even meeting, let-alone fighting a war, are, I think, remote.
Wizards, Dwarves, Orcs and Demons come back on future expansions, we're sick of them anyway xD. Just a summary of a plot we can already muster.
As above, if we're including Lizardmen we need Orcs. Demons I'm happy to drop for the main release, the other I won't call on yet, let's just see what comes up.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted September 12, 2009 12:34 PM |
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Quote:
Have you had a look at the map of Ashan lately? The jungles (where the Lizardmen live) are on the far side of the Golden Steppe, ie, the Lizardmen will run into the Orc before they hit the Empire. Following that they'll either have to cross The Broken Lands and Lost Palaedra, or The Doom Sea before they even reach the edge of the Empire, so the chances of them even meeting, let-alone fighting a war, are, I think, remote.
O how I tire of pointing out that that map is non-canonical.
This, and this, are the only maps of Ashan to be considered "real".
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 01:28 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 13:29, 12 Sep 2009.
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O how I tire of pointing out that that map is non-canonical.
This, and this, are the only maps of Ashan to be considered "real".
Well that could stuff things up a bit. BTW, if I appear a bit slow on such matters, it's probably because I've never actually played H5, and this is the first time I've seen that map.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2009 01:38 PM |
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Quote:
O how I tire of pointing out that that map is non-canonical.
This, and this, are the only maps of Ashan to be considered "real".
Thank you Cepheus. I wanted to point that out, but you beat me to it.
As Cepheus kindly pointed out, the map you're refering to is an outdated map, that was considered by Ubisoft when they were thinking of continuing 3DO's story.
Six factions on the initial release like every other game from the series? We can do it.
I suggest we keep the alternative upgrades and tier dwellings as I said on a previous response here on this same post.
You do realise that this woud mean that we'd need to create 42 creatures per faction, if we go through with this. With the proposed 6 factions, that would be 252 creatures. That is also excluding neutrals which we intended to do as well. I think we're really crossing the limits with 42 creatures per faction. I fear it'll become bland across the board, because we're likely have to repeat names and creature ideas. Like I said before, I think we should choose either alternative.
It would be like hiring mercenaries in the games of the Total War series? That could be done, since H5 lacked netral dwellings on the map on my opinion. However it would make those same neutral dwellings useless don't you think? One would say: "I can hire mercenaries aynway so why bother going to neutral dwellings? I spent my money already on the mercs and they are better, more readily available troops".
I've never played Total War, so I could not say if it is the same. However I think you're understanding my intentions. As for neutrals becomeing obsolete. Perhaps so for lowerlevel neutrals, but a Merc would never be higher or on par with a tier 5 creature, so high level neutrals would still outdo a merc.
let's develop the new fations together, otherwhise we may not like each other's creations and it a load of work to think and write down a entire new faction, just not to use it.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying we should not develop factions together. I'm saying we should wait with it a bit longer. Until we're all agreed on how the faction should be built.
We can keep both man, trust me. As I said on a previous reply the games on the series aren't first released with like 12 races. So we can work well on 6 or so factions. Better to make fewer factions but very well done and with new content and features then a load of factions with 1 upgrade! More factions can be added on future expansions.
Oh I agree that we should do less factions if it means doing them better. But as I said in my previous comment, 42 creatures per faction is to much. I think we're already pushing the limits when we're doing 29 creatures. (Would be 7 alternate tiers, with an upgrade for them all and a Mercenary). If we'd do this, we'd come on a total of 174 creatures for 6 factions excluding neutrals. Trust me we're going to have a hard enough time with something like this.
Also remember that I'm going to be tough on creatures. I will not accept just any creature that sort of fits the general theme. All creatures will have to make sense, have a logical background and most of all need a plausible way of acting independant in a battle. They should plausibly be trainable, or guided by a rider. And I will not accept magic for an aswer for a whole lot of creatures/animals.
Ok I suppose they could be locked on the moon too, but those demons are everywhere aren't they?
I'm not saying there are Demons on the moon. I'm saying something could be.
Sure but as I said on another reply let's develop them together to avoid the risk of wasting time.
I was trying to point out that we should not use other peoples stuff. Not that we individually make factions. I agree we should do this together.
I don't like the idea of the return of the demons for the main plot because it is just too repetitive.
Agreed, they can be left out for the time being. But we should not dispose of them.
No problem with keeping the Faceless for the story of the new dungeon faction, conflicting with Haven, however they would only pull the strings on the new dungeon town (like being heroes). They can't be any kind of troop. Also, let's not forget my other idea of Haven meeting the swamp/mesoamerican town when discovering new lands so we can keep both, and center the main plot around how the Griffin Empire is attacked on two sides. I suggest too that the Nagas come later to make things worst. The Sylvan continues as good guys with their new races to help the humans. The other race would be the necros and their werebeasts but we would have to make a plot for them to fit in, and decide if the wizards are going to be in (not much different to do wit the wizards anyway). Drop the Wizards for The Naga to conflict with the Necros and Haven. Wizards, Dwarves, Orcs and Demons come back on future expansions, we're sick of them anyway xD. Just a summary of a plot we can already muster.
Faceless should not even be Heroes, they should be the ones pulling strings in the Shadows. The Minotaurs should have their own heroes. New lands is fine, but it should not neceserally be humans who go there.
I'm certainly not sick of Dwarves and Orcs. I love them, especially the Orcs.
H3 and H4 weren't theirs either. Besides, this isn't about what they would do, this is about what we would like them to do,
Couldn't agree more.
Probably not actually, unless the natives are also human.
If we're doing a swamp/lizard faction. It should be Lizards and plausible beasts. Not Lizard and some humans and some other species and plausible beasts. As far as a Mesoamercican theme goes, it could be nice, but let us wait with this a bit until we reach an agreement over the build of a faction.
Werebeasts are a possibility, but let's not forget that we haven't really exhausted the true undead yet, I mean we have Ghouls, Hulks (aka flesh golems, Frankenstein's monsters, etc.), and even, if we're willing to go in that direction, beast zombies/beast hulks (beyond dragons I mean). If we do go with a Vampires vs. Lichs theme, we could also give the Vampires a bit more culture (ie, vampires could live in clans, which would require heirarchies, and they would probably keep slaves, and maybe beasts).
Again, let us wait with working out factions before we reach an agreement.
Alternative base creatures could get very boring, especially for towns like Haven.
For a town like Haven perhaps it could be slightly boring because it it predominantly Human. However I have come up with a basis for either faction possibility, of which I hope it is not boring. However as I said before, I'm not posting it yet because we need to decide which basis we take.
The orcs will fight anyone they don't like, be they demons, humans, dwarves or undead.
I think with Orcs, it's not a matter of not liking them. It's a matter of being in the way. Orcs take what they want, and kill, maim or destroy whatever keeps them from the thing they want. Now they might hold back when it comes to allies, but as of yet the orcs have not actually allied yet.
it's probably because I've never actually played H5, and this is the first time I've seen that map.
You should. HoMMV is a great game. I suggest you buy TotE if you're intrested and mod it to play the original campaigns.(it floats around the forum somewhere, I'm sure.)
Ok, one last message. The fair is in town, so the rest of the weekend I probably will not have a lot of time on hands, so may replies may well be postponed till Monday.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 02:31 PM |
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Also remember that I'm going to be tough on creatures. I will not accept just any creature that sort of fits the general theme. All creatures will have to make sense, have a logical background and most of all need a plausible way of acting independant in a battle. They should plausibly be trainable, or guided by a rider. And I will not accept magic for an aswer for a whole lot of creatures/animals.
Agreed. One of the problems I have with H3, a lot of the factions are just this, a bunch of creatures working together by magic (particularly bad is Fortress).
If we're doing a swamp/lizard faction. It should be Lizards and plausible beasts. Not Lizard and some humans and some other species and plausible beasts.
Indeed. To put a modern spin on it, Haven conquering the Lizardmen (or Nagas) is about as likely to happen as the American army conquering Russia, their tech is slightly better, but the enemy has numbers on his side, and is much more familiar with the terrain.
Again, let us wait with working out factions before we reach an agreement.
Well I was just raising a point with Knight that there's a lot more variation possible in there than we see.
Now they might hold back when it comes to allies, but as of yet the orcs have not actually allied yet.
Does 'Flying To The Rescue' count?
You should. HoMMV is a great game. I suggest you buy TotE if you're intrested and mod it to play the original campaigns.(it floats around the forum somewhere, I'm sure.)
It's quite hard to get down here (I haven't seen a copy in, oh probably a couple of years now), and besides, I don't really have the money to spend on that kind of stuff, no matter how enticing it is.
Ok, one last message. The fair is in town, so the rest of the weekend I probably will not have a lot of time on hands, so may replies may well be postponed till Monday.
No worries, enjoy yourself.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted September 12, 2009 02:40 PM |
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Quote:
You should. HoMMV is a great game. I suggest you buy TotE if you're intrested and mod it to play the original campaigns.
Agreed that you should play TotE, but... well, going near the original campaigns is perhaps the most surefire way to turn a new player off the game for good.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 02:55 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 15:01, 12 Sep 2009.
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Okay guys, the group's up, so just give me a HCM when you want to join (you'll have to request a membership anyway, but these days I'm here more often than I'm there). In comment to owner, just put, 'it's me ***' or something.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 10:29 PM |
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No, it means you and War-overlord can join up (I gave you the address), and we can discuss things in private if we need to.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 10:31 PM |
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Ok, just waiting for the reactivation of my account there and I join.
I'm reading the other posts and I'm going to answer shortly. As War-Overlord said he is probably answer on monday only, we should wait to discuss any more serious tings until he comes back.
BTW, since you haven't played H5 you want me to make a post/private messege with the plot summary? I finished all the campaigns. Just played the last mission of TOE again yesterday just to refresh on memory how it ended.
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Asha uses all
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2009 10:40 PM |
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No it's alright, I think I picked up the gist of it from wikipedia.
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KnightofHonour
Famous Hero
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posted September 13, 2009 01:16 AM |
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My comments of your comments, we commened again, from what we commented earlier ;p:
Cepheus
O how I tire of pointing out that that map is non-canonical.
This, and this, are the only maps of Ashan to be considered "real".
Agreed that you should play TotE, but... well, going near the original campaigns is perhaps the most surefire way to turn a new player off the game for good.
My thoughts exactly. And thank you for your interest and participation, We're honest fellows so we always recognize and thank the contribution of others.
I also think that more experienced members like you should be participating of this contest because, in fact, we are all going to profit with good ideas to make a good H6 game and not a crappy one.
*cough* join us *cough* ^^.
Matt’s
Again, it offers no advantages over being able to control both armies at the same time, except in regards to one hero having better support skills than the other, and even then that could be worked in without needing to merge the armies.
It's a new and interesting feature as a see it. I think it wuld add advantages yes, like you iring two heroes, merging, and attacking enemy heroes that are not merged. But let's hear Overlord's opinion on that matter too.
Depending on the story, I'd rather leave the demons out of vanilla, just to give us a chance to develop other story-lines (including possibly, an Orcs vs. Lizardmen).
Yes indeed! A point we agree completely! Also we should discuss our faction developments on private forum.
This is set years after the last invasion, there's no way the corrupted town could have gone undetected. A better way I see of introducing tension is in the elves disagreeing over whether to grant the dark elves asylum. Also, let's not over-complicate things with a dozen groups of one race, if we really need to we can always split it into forest elves (those who accept the dark elves, on condition) and high elves (those who don't accept the dark elves).
Uhhm that would lead to a sylvan/dark elf faction. Don't know. In the end of TOE and DMOMM the elfs weren't even there! It's like they lost their importance on the story. We could drop their faction altogether for another. However they have a large fan base.
Werebeasts are a possibility, but let's not forget that we haven't really exhausted the true undead yet, I mean we have Ghouls, Hulks (aka flesh golems, Frankenstein's monsters, etc.), and even, if we're willing to go in that direction, beast zombies/beast hulks (beyond dragons I mean). If we do go with a Vampires vs. Lichs theme, we could also give the Vampires a bit more culture (ie, vampires could live in clans, which would require heirarchies, and they would probably keep slaves, and maybe beasts).
Yes you are right, how could I forget that? There are tons of types of undead. This justs justifies my point of alternative dwellings even more. We have both werebeasts and tons of types of undead.
Cross requirements between the racial and normal skills I'm okay with, but cross requirements between normal skills I'm not. The main reason I'm against normal skills doing it is because you might not always want or need a particular normal skill, so having to get it just because it has a few perks you want could be aggravating, however the same wouldn't happen with the racial, because every hero gets it.
Maybe we could increase the possible slots for abilities so you could have say, 4 abilities for each skill, which I suggest should be 8 skill slots like in H3. I think they put the requirements there to make the game more variable. What I mean is: you always have to figure out a build for your character. If that wasn't the case, if there were no requirements, we all would choose the same skills that, together granted the best benefits.
I'm still against it being in the game itself (you'd need dozens, maybe even hundreds of extra animations, so why not save a bit of time and stick in extra neutrals, or even out-of-town creatures like they had in H4?), although I've nothing against them making it easier to make a mod to do it.
The developers could do it easily I believe. There are mods on this frum that do it already, it would just had to be combined on a graphical interface so we would see the changes being done in real time, on a screen, like on Spore. But tis is just a suggestion, if yu bot want it out, ok.
Okay, what about the spells getting a bit 'bigger' (animation wise) or fancier as you go from basic to advanced to expert?
Yes that is it. More cool animations and sounds for spells of all levels. Also I'm going to suggest new spells that would allow them to be more creatie on that aspect.
If it's just on the battlefield I'll agree, otherwise, no (enviroment spells).
Yes initially it would be just enviroment effected on the battlefield and other ideas I have. I'll share them in private.
H3 and H4 weren't theirs either. Besides, this isn't about what they would do, this is about what we would like them to do, and I'd prefer the Grail gone, because it's as boring as hell really.
Well it comes down to a matter of taste don't you think? For me I find the tear's buildings cool. And the combined artifacts would fill the role of ultimate artifacts anyway. So we can actually have both tear mechanic on the game and combined artifact mechanic to simulate ultimate artifact, the combined artifacts were difficult to get too.
Combo. artefacts and artefact sets fill the same function, allowing a bunch of artefacts to have a greater effect cumulatively than individually, the only difference being that the bonus provided by an artefact set can be graduated, whereas with a combo. artifact it's all or nothing.
In my opinion the more artifacts the better. In H5 I got sick of getting the same sets always. It's boring. And with combining artifacts you could choose which ones to combined to form a pre-defined list of effects. Als we keep the sets, te player has limmited slots anyway so he will have t choose. On H3 SOD when you used a combined artifact slots were closed, so that's a way to balance things.
Probably not actually, unless the natives are also human, I mean how far would the Spanish have got in Central/South America without gunpowder, and without half the natives getting wiped out by diseases? Not very far I shouldn't think.
It's not actually a total recreation of the age of discovery of our real world, it would just be the part of discovering them on new lands or when going through portals or someting like that.
Have you had a look at the map of Ashan lately? The jungles (where the Lizardmen live) are on the far side of the Golden Steppe, ie, the Lizardmen will run into the Orc before they hit the Empire. Following that they'll either have to cross The Broken Lands and Lost Palaedra, or The Doom Sea before they even reach the edge of the Empire, so the chances of them even meeting, let-alone fighting a war, are, I think, remote.
Not only the maps are non-canonical but we also can be imaginative.
As above, if we're including Lizardmen we need Orcs. Demons I'm happy to drop for the main release, the other I won't call on yet, let's just see what comes up.
I think we don't have much to work with the orcs. The units would be too similar to the ones on H5 or H3. Also, as said on above post, the Humans could discover a new race through a number of means. I'll go on mmore detail on private forums.
Agreed. One of the problems I have with H3, a lot of the factions are just this, a bunch of creatures working together by magic (particularly bad is Fortress).
Sure thing, we need coherency to the story. Also working with fewer factions we can develop the plots and fit the creatures on their roles better.
Indeed. To put a modern spin on it, Haven conquering the Lizardmen (or Nagas) is about as likely to happen as the American army conquering Russia, their tech is slightly better, but the enemy has numbers on his side, and is much more familiar with the terrain.
Yes but the humans don't need to conquer the factions they discover, just discover them to introduce said factions and put them into conflict. The rest we develop with the plot. My idea was just to discover them, and put them to fight, or maybe the other side invade. we decide later.
Overlord’s
You do realise that this woud mean that we'd need to create 42 creatures per faction, if we go through with this. With the proposed 6 factions, that would be 252 creatures. That is also excluding neutrals which we intended to do as well. I think we're really crossing the limits with 42 creatures per faction. I fear it'll become bland across the board, because we're likely have to repeat names and creature ideas. Like I said before, I think we should choose either alternative.
What 252? Piece of cake  . The fantasy worlds and human imagination are boundless, specially since we are doing new factions too. However we have to think how are we going to present them. Are we going to make/find a portrait for each? Without portrait it is easier.
I've never played Total War, so I could not say if it is the same. However I think you're understanding my intentions. As for neutrals becomeing obsolete. Perhaps so for lowerlevel neutrals, but a Merc would never be higher or on par with a tier 5 creature, so high level neutrals would still outdo a merc.
In the Total War series you hired mercenaries according to their availability on the land and related culture your hero is in. So if in the desert, saracen mercenaries and so on. You click your hero and there is a little painel showing what mercenaries are available at the time, then you hire wat you want and the gold is deduced from your treasure and the stack is automatically made part of your heroe's army. What you want is similar to this, yes? But recruitable from the castle? Well We would have to think it over because, imo, that's what neutral dwellings and the caravans bringing the creatures from the dwelllings to town are for in H5. Also that is similar to alternative dwellings, which, imo, we should do instead.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying we should not develop factions together. I'm saying we should wait with it a bit longer. Until we're all agreed on how the faction should be built.
Ok let's decide the basic concepts first and then develop the factions and all other new stuff together on the private forum Matt did.
Oh I agree that we should do less factions if it means doing them better. But as I said in my previous comment, 42 creatures per faction is to much. I think we're already pushing the limits when we're doing 29 creatures. (Would be 7 alternate tiers, with an upgrade for them all and a Mercenary). If we'd do this, we'd come on a total of 174 creatures for 6 factions excluding neutrals. Trust me we're going to have a hard enough time with something like this.
Also remember that I'm going to be tough on creatures. I will not accept just any creature that sort of fits the general theme. All creatures will have to make sense, have a logical background and most of all need a plausible way of acting independant in a battle. They should plausibly be trainable, or guided by a rider. And I will not accept magic for an aswer for a whole lot of creatures/animals.
We develop them on a regular basis. We do it for each faction. It is work to do but we need features to add to the game not only different creatures and factions, but someting new with them: the alternative dwellings. Also what do you mean not accepting magic as an answer? This is a magical/fantasy world! Of course if you mean a little story and town-coherency for each creature I agree.
I'm not saying there are Demons on the moon. I'm saying something could be.
Okay, I'm fine with that. Even if you guys wanted t add sci-fi I would agree (I know you don't want that).
Agreed, they can be left out for the time being. But we should not dispose of them (demons).
I think they should be only in the plot, in the beggining, to explain what happens after the events in TOE and DMOMM. As a faction let them return on a expansion. We would make a more original game that way.
Faceless should not even be Heroes, they should be the ones pulling strings in the Shadows. The Minotaurs should have their own heroes. New lands is fine, but it should not neceserally be humans who go there.
I'm certainly not sick of Dwarves and Orcs. I love them, especially the Orcs.
Ok we agree that they have influence but not of the direct sort. I'm a bit sick of those factions due to overplaying of the campaign ;p, but nevermind that.
If we're doing a swamp/lizard faction. It should be Lizards and plausible beasts. Not Lizard and some humans and some other species and plausible beasts. As far as a Mesoamercican theme goes, it could be nice, but let us wait with this a bit until we reach an agreement over the build of a faction.
Yes, let's develop that later on a private forum plz.
For a town like Haven perhaps it could be slightly boring because it it predominantly Human. However I have come up with a basis for either faction possibility, of which I hope it is not boring. However as I said before, I'm not posting it yet because we need to decide which basis we take.
Ok my friend, let's discuss this when you return from much wanted weekend fun yes?  And plz on a private forum.
I think with Orcs, it's not a matter of not liking them. It's a matter of being in the way. Orcs take what they want, and kill, maim or destroy whatever keeps them from the thing they want. Now they might hold back when it comes to allies, but as of yet the orcs have not actually allied yet.
Uhhm I don't know, I partially agree with that. But on H5 TOE their motivations were quite righteous and they were very honorable on all ocasions I can remember. They pillaged and burned on missions that they were freeing themselves from slavery, the Griffin Empire used them to do manual labour! If you remember the end of TOE everybody was a "band of brothers", it seemed they became "friends forever", an alliance of everybody against Inferno. The ending politic framework was, in fact, this:
Good, allied factions:
Stronghold
Fortress
Sylvan
"Unicorn Empire"
Academy
Neutrals:
Necropolis
Dungeon
Evil:
Inferno
Even inner conflicts were supressed, like renegades discovering Biara and recognizing the true Queen Isabel, Soulscar being destroyed, Wulfstan becoming king, etc. Even Arantir from Necropolis faction had good motivations, however his methods in DMOMM involved killing innocent people, so I qualify him as a neutral and a faction with undead simply cannot be qualified as of good Alignment. Dungeon faction was fractured but dominated by more orderly elements and also allied with the good factions. The Orcs are simply born to kill demons, as we were told again and again on TOE, and acted with that in mind the entire game. The result was the alliance with the good factions, shown by the coperation on the various missions and plot videos. The game left limited options to conflict after that with this political framework, since the demons were defeated and Sareth probably closed kha-baleth's prison in the ending of DMOMM, otherwise, like I said before, H6 would be fight against demons all over again with very similar stories and plots.
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Asha uses all
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