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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Why many ppl dont like Heroes 4?
Thread: Why many ppl dont like Heroes 4? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
posted October 02, 2009 03:57 PM

why you like homm 4 more than homm 3?
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seto
seto

Tavern Dweller
posted October 12, 2009 02:08 PM

Quote:
why you like homm 4 more than homm 3?



Playing with heroes only, better spells, fewer and better units & no need to bother with upgrading, caravans. Better graphics, faster fighting, having 3 more heroes in one army...

In conclusion: less micro-management and more emphasis on strategy - developing heroes and fighting.
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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted October 12, 2009 06:21 PM

You must like making GM archery heroes that just gun down whatever comes across them.
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Konyev
Konyev


Hired Hero
posted November 03, 2009 01:27 PM

Many said because it is unbalanced.But they cannot understand there was always superior tactic and units in the heroes series....
Heroes 2-get ghosts you won,or play necro and get skeletons
Heroes 3-play as conflux or necro any custom made maps and you won,(and of course there was some nasty unbeatable rush)
Heroes 4-get vampires and necromancy you have big advantege

As you can see it was never balanced.Everbody wanted a Heroes 3.5 not a 4(great game)...

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Eden
Eden


Adventuring Hero
posted November 03, 2009 11:47 PM

HoMM4 ultimately, to me at least, is very different from the others and its rather hard to compare them. Nevetheless, despite all the new twists in HoMM4, good or bad, I like it more then the other simply because I felt more challenged when playing it. I found myself asking questions constanly when making combat actions with my heroes or units, "Is shooting the archer worth the retaliation?" or "Whcih stack should my hero take and which should my own stack take?" and etc. The game added new options, albeit perhaps poorly completed or planned options, but new options and challenges all the same.
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If I must die, I will encounter darkness as a bride, And hug it in mine arms." —William Shakespeare, Measure for Measure

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 05, 2009 01:13 PM

in homm 2 it's rather get black dragons / titans.
you may buy as many creatures as you can from other castles, you still won't reach the power of a couple black dragons / titans.

what about archangels in homm 3?

in homm 4, I would rather say play order, get genies and a few imba mind spells.

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BAD
BAD


Promising
Known Hero
posted November 12, 2009 07:55 PM

I don't like Heroes IV because of the poor AI.
Anyway, I love other great things...

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Konyev
Konyev


Hired Hero
posted November 12, 2009 08:57 PM

You dont like then the whole series,AI pretty stupid in all Heroes game...

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Solipso
Solipso


Adventuring Hero
posted November 14, 2009 06:12 AM

Heroes IV is still the best, IMOP.

I tell myself that the reason more people don't like Heroes IV has something to do with prejudice, tendatious thinking, closed-mindedness, biased favoritism, intolerance, pride, etc.

Heroes III is a favorite game of mine, maybe my second favorite, behind Heroes IV. And maybe after playing more of Heroes V, I'll favor it more than I favor Heroes IV, but....

I don't think so.

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dkolb
dkolb


Promising
Known Hero
Nay Nay and Aslan Protector
posted November 22, 2009 11:11 AM

I'll give Homm4 this: It for sure is better than HOMM1 which was a bare bones game (obviously though only in retrospect)

There was a certain rawness and naturalness that I enjoyed about 4. Having creatures be involved in the game without being forced to be under a hero was interesting and having them scout and having the fog of war was clever (although made the game longer and sometimes more frustrating)

I thought the overworld was animated rather beautifully and so were some of the fixtures. The game jumped straight off the cliff when it came to battles.

Choppy awkward movement animation, and frankly terrible looking models (if you find some close up hi-res images of like the leprecaun they are good for a laugh.) Just very clunky clumsy and strange combat.

The lack of towns and lack of creatures didn't help. They actually had enough neutral creatures to make another town in one of the expansions but instead they were just cheap cash ins.

The music is still the best of the series. Overall a radically different game that wasn't finished properly. It's legacy was good. The Caravan system especially was a good idea as was creature spellbooks and other ideas.

What I didn't like was just the lack of creatures and poor graphics
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"...once you bought your first green dragon, there was already a necromancer with six or seven boners out and about-Lord_Wook"

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted November 22, 2009 11:41 AM

H4 is nice. It has some really nice interesting features. I don't think H4 is bad.

But it has many awful animations. Just think gryffin. It looks like a sick bird with broken wings that cannot fly. No bird is looking like that. And a gryffin is even more than a bird.

The H4 thunderbirds are well done. Why couldn't at least the thunderbird be a template for the gryffin?

Other animations are very bad, too. The satyr walking is crap. Thats the walking method of a mummy, not of a satyr. The attack animation however is nice. And the barbarian animation is crap. Much better would have been a berserker-like animation.

The subterranean look is better in H3. And even better in H5. The H5 animations are not that good, although the H5 gryffin is the best of all heroes series. Really well done.

The scripting in H4 is limited, but at least something, more than nothing.

So all-in-all it's not bad, but i prefere H3.

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted November 23, 2009 01:45 PM
Edited by SAG at 13:47, 23 Nov 2009.

why most good homm3 players haven't switched to homm4:
1) "chaining" strategy was eliminated. Army in homm4 now has own movement points and you can't build "chain".
Result: game became much slower. Where in homm3 you need 2 turns to fight guards in different parts of the map (chain of 7-8 heroes), in homm4 it will require 14 turns to do the same. In real games game took 4x time more than normal homm3 game.
2) creatures may walk without hero. Terrible!
3) all heroes are almost the same, only face is different. Very frustrating...
4) you don't need army; hero with Combat skill can kill everything...
5) random map generator and multiplayer support was not ready at game launch
6) heroes required more time to develop the level. In homm3 you can have 8 skills on expert level at mid-week 2 on random map. When can you make 8 expert skills in homm4?

and many more arguments...
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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Invictus
Invictus


Adventuring Hero
posted November 24, 2009 08:51 AM

Quote:
But it has many awful animations. Just think gryffin. It looks like a sick bird with broken wings that cannot fly. No bird is looking like that. And a gryffin is even more than a bird.

I didn't see anything wrong with the Griffen. Why pick on the griffin? It's not even a realistic creature.

As for the Satyr, yeah that's lame, but I think that was intentional. The leprechaun animation is also very lame - I'll give you that.

But overall, I think the animations are very nice for a game of its time. I don't see why people are saying that the game is ugly.
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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
posted November 24, 2009 07:28 PM
Edited by gnollking at 19:32, 24 Nov 2009.

Quote:
why most good homm3 players haven't switched to homm4:
1) "chaining" strategy was eliminated. Army in homm4 now has own movement points and you can't build "chain".
Result: game became much slower. Where in homm3 you need 2 turns to fight guards in different parts of the map (chain of 7-8 heroes), in homm4 it will require 14 turns to do the same. In real games game took 4x time more than normal homm3 game.
2) creatures may walk without hero. Terrible!
3) all heroes are almost the same, only face is different. Very frustrating...
4) you don't need army; hero with Combat skill can kill everything...
5) random map generator and multiplayer support was not ready at game launch
6) heroes required more time to develop the level. In homm3 you can have 8 skills on expert level at mid-week 2 on random map. When can you make 8 expert skills in homm4?

and many more arguments...

SAG, you're absolutely right about everything .

I really hate, when the enemy sends 100 level 5 creatures without the hero, who I really want to kill ..


We can all argue about this, but one thing is sure, it's HoMM 3/3.5
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Solipso
Solipso


Adventuring Hero
posted November 24, 2009 07:45 PM

Quote:
why most good homm3 players haven't switched to homm4:
1) "chaining" strategy was eliminated. Army in homm4 now has own movement points and you can't build "chain".
Result: game became much slower. Where in homm3 you need 2 turns to fight guards in different parts of the map (chain of 7-8 heroes), in homm4 it will require 14 turns to do the same. In real games game took 4x time more than normal homm3 game.
2) creatures may walk without hero. Terrible!
3) all heroes are almost the same, only face is different. Very frustrating...
4) you don't need army; hero with Combat skill can kill everything...
5) random map generator and multiplayer support was not ready at game launch
6) heroes required more time to develop the level. In homm3 you can have 8 skills on expert level at mid-week 2 on random map. When can you make 8 expert skills in homm4?

and many more arguments...


Having played hundreds of hours of both HIII and HIV, one thing I am of sure of is this: Each game has its weaknesses and its strengths.

The thing is, if you only play one of these games, you will miss out on the strengths of the other game.

You condemn the loss of chaining in Heroes IV, but Heroes IV gains a point of realism by that loss. In Heroes III, even without using Town Gate, chaining allows you to reinforce your advanced army almost instantly. Sometimes in just one turn. But in Heroes IV, depending on the distance, you may have to wait a few days for your reinforcements to arrive. And when they do arrive, you have to let them rest a turn to gain full movement points. But if the scenario is balanced correctly to allow for that delay, I don't really miss the chaining. It's absence is realistic.  

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted November 25, 2009 07:31 AM

Quote:

Having played hundreds of hours of both HIII and HIV, one thing I am of sure of is this: Each game has its weaknesses and its strengths.


The question was "Why many players don't like homm4?". I gave the answers. Perhaps, people don't mind about your "point of realism". Actually, I can't mention ANY value in homm4 for multiplayer games. All changes were simply wrong.
Quote:

But if the scenario is balanced correctly to allow for that delay, I don't really miss the chaining. It's absence is realistic.  

Singleplayer games differ a lot. I agree that good master can create interesting homm4 SP map. The problem of SP games is that people will play it 1-2 months and will switch to some other game - Civilization or Counter Strike or whatever...MP players stay addicted for many years. You can find 40-50 homm3 players online each day at GameRanger - almost 11 years after the launch!!!
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 25, 2009 10:21 AM

Too many problems for a half finished game that was rushed by 3DOH before they went bankruptcy.

If they would of taken more time making the game, it could of been more fun lol.

Ok William go ahead & contradict me again
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Dreaming of a Better World

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted November 26, 2009 01:09 PM

The main problem is that games take way to long. Even simple week 1 battles take a long time. Using spells like quicksand and confusion
makes battles take forever.

Another thing is that the AI cant handle the map at all. I once ended turn 360 times in a row without moving anything against severel cpuplayers. After that I wiped out the AIs in 2 months.

A third thing is that certain spells and heroes are overpowered. 1 hero and 1 pixie can take out 1 million titans. Many things are simply not thought through.

When thats said H4 has nice things in it too. When I first tried it I found it much better that H3.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 24, 2009 12:12 AM
Edited by Rainalcar at 00:16, 24 Dec 2009.

-
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 24, 2009 12:16 AM

Quote:
Quote:
why most good homm3 players haven't switched to homm4:
1) "chaining" strategy was eliminated. Army in homm4 now has own movement points and you can't build "chain".
Result: game became much slower. Where in homm3 you need 2 turns to fight guards in different parts of the map (chain of 7-8 heroes), in homm4 it will require 14 turns to do the same. In real games game took 4x time more than normal homm3 game.
2) creatures may walk without hero. Terrible!
3) all heroes are almost the same, only face is different. Very frustrating...
4) you don't need army; hero with Combat skill can kill everything...
5) random map generator and multiplayer support was not ready at game launch
6) heroes required more time to develop the level. In homm3 you can have 8 skills on expert level at mid-week 2 on random map. When can you make 8 expert skills in homm4?

and many more arguments...


Perfect solve for chaining was H5 imo. Allow it, but make it expensive, progressively. I could chain as good as anyone, but many times I hated that part of the gameplay in H3. Agreed, H4 solution wasn't good, and 2) was just horrible.

No need for army isn't really true: heroes now are at the center, sure, but lvl 3 and 4 units are still very much needed to do anything. Lvl 1 and 2 are fodders and used to level up heroes.

I hold the idea of choosing unit per level to be the best option in the entire series: better then H3 and better then H5. But it needs 5 levels probably, not 4. Balancing those units isn't really possible in all regards, but isn't the point - it allows the player to modify his strategy based on his resources, and brings a lot of surprise factor in the game.

All else you said is right on. My opinion why the game didn't pass, main reasons were:
1. odd graphics, different from the Heroes series style. Unit design and CATASTROPHIC (compared to H3) town design goes here as well.
2. VERY odd combat angle. Watching at your army from the back throughout your career isn't exactly thrilling.
3. VERY odd battlefield with the extra small tiles. Frustrating to calculate where you can and cannot go. Same thing goes for predicting obstacles when shooting.
4. No multiplayer at start. I mean, what??

The best thing about H4, and I still hold to it, is that, no matter it's bugs considering balance, MANY more things were useful than in H3. This goes for skills, spells, artifacts etc. etc. In H3, if you don't have mass slow/haste, and the opponent does - you're as good as dead. Such things are far better solved in H4. Yes, there are numerous exploits, but I believe all can be fixed. I always understood Nival when it said over and over again that there will be no mass movement changing battle spell in H5. Anybody who is worth anything in H3 will know that they had a strong foundation for this decision.

Very good balance of H4 would, I hold, be easily achievable, if there was a scene of players available, while, for H3, it still isn't, even with so much development made - and I feel will never be.

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