Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: LGBT Community
Thread: LGBT Community This thread is 33 pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 33 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 13, 2011 05:14 PM
Edited by Elodin at 17:23, 13 Feb 2011.

I don't have a problem with legal civil unions for gays. But they can't be held in a church that is actually a Christian church. There are lots of things that should be legal but that a Christian church will have no part of.

A church that is actually a Christian church would not unite gays because God will not unite them. But there are those who want to call themselves by the name of Christ but make up their own doctrine. Denying Christ by their deeds while professing him with their lips.

Quote:
Religion has a special connection to this thread because it's been the main "enemy" for LGBTs over the centuries. And still is because the basic situation hasn't changed - except that religion isn't a dominating societal force in our Western society anymore.


Christianity is not the enemy of gays. Ii recall Stall, Lenin, and other atheists killed gays in nations dominated by atheists. Perhaps your primary reference is to the religion of atheism.

Quote:
Which perfectly explains the problem virtually every Christian Church has been for the people under their collective thumb and why moral has been so ... lacking within the confines of Christianity's sphere of influence.


Officially atheist natinos have been the most immoral natinos to have ever existed, at least in modern times.

Christianity teaches one to love everyone and to do good to everyone. I'm sorry you disagree that that is a moral teaching.

Quote:
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


Quote:
1Jn 3:17  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?


The logical conclusion of mateerialistic atheism is to care only about one's own wellbeing, in contrast.
____________
Revelation

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted February 13, 2011 05:35 PM

Well... actually... I can not be! But I kinda agree with this post by Elodin.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted February 13, 2011 05:35 PM

Lenin?

The Soviet Union under Vladimir Lenin decriminalized homosexuality in 1922, long before many other European countries... This was reversed a decade later by Stalin and made illegal again.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted February 13, 2011 05:43 PM

hello Elodin

goodbye respectful discussion

actually, to be fair, we kind of hit that mark when Lionofhull showed up.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 13, 2011 05:52 PM

Quote:
hello Elodin

goodbye respectful discussion

actually, to be fair, we kind of hit that mark when Lionofhull showed up.


Atheists have been saying Christianity is bad and immoral. Somehow they think they can condemn all othr religions and yet it is disrespectful for someone to challeng theirs.
____________
Revelation

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 13, 2011 05:56 PM

Quote:
Well... actually... I can not be! But I kinda agree with this post by Elodin.

Shouldn't that be reason enough to re-evaluate your position?

Anyway, I don't actually need to write anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_and_homosexuality

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 13, 2011 07:06 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Well... actually... I can not be! But I kinda agree with this post by Elodin.

Shouldn't that be reason enough to re-evaluate your position?

Anyway, I don't actually need to write anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_and_homosexuality


Sorry that you chose to start the personal aspersions. But let this  be clearly noted so when the witch hunts start again I can point to your post as the first personal insult thrown.

What was the point in the article you wanted to addrress? That the pagan Romans did not allow homosexual relations between adults or that they allowed pedophilia between adult men and boys? Or that Plato condemned sodomy? Or was there some other claim you wanted to make?

Certainly Christianity teaches homosexual sex is sinful. That does not make Christianity the enemy of homosexuals. Christianity teaches that lying, drunkenness and other things are sinful that that does not manke Christians the enemy of drunks and liars.

Also, note that the church is not authorized to punish any sinner for any sin. The church calls for everyone to repent of their sins and to turn to God. Any person who claims to be a Christian who persists in living in sin is to be disfellowshipped if they refuse to turn from their sin after several attempts have been made to bring them to repentance.

Since the Christ did not authroize his church to punish any sin anyone who claimed to punish homosexuals in the name of Christ was certainly a liar.

Don't blaim Christianity for someone who is not in fact following Christian doctrine as set forth in the New Testament, which is the holy writings pertaining to the New Testament (New Covenant) brought into being through Christ.

If you would like direct quotations from the Bible where it says gay sex is sinful I will provide them. Again, it is hard to addrress your points if you don't state them.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 13, 2011 07:25 PM

Quote:

A church that is actually a Christian church would not unite gays because God will not unite them. yada yada


What I find incredible is that it is sooo easy for a christian affirm he is full of love and tolerance, but when he does not want to accept something, it is not his fault, but GOD's word, he puts himself totally out of question and discards any responsibility. Are we all equal in God's eyes or not?

____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted February 13, 2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

What I find incredible is that it is sooo easy for a christian affirm he is full of love and tolerance, but when he does not want to accept something, it is not his fault, but GOD's word, he puts himself totally out of question and discards any responsibility. Are we all equal in God's eyes or not?



animal farm has quite a lot to say on this kind of equality.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted February 13, 2011 08:18 PM
Edited by Adrius at 20:19, 13 Feb 2011.

*turns on Future Projector*
*Aims Projector towards OSM*

"OMG atheist nations are so evulz!"
"No! And christians are like totally deluded... and stuff!"
"No they're not!"
"**** you Elodin!"
"OMG I'm being harassed! MODS I DEMAND ACTION"
"You whine so much! You... you whiner!"

*turns off Future Projector*

...

*walks out of thread*
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 13, 2011 08:26 PM

Quote:
Quote:

A church that is actually a Christian church would not unite gays because God will not unite them. yada yada


What I find incredible is that it is sooo easy for a christian affirm he is full of love and tolerance, but when he does not want to accept something, it is not his fault, but GOD's word, he puts himself totally out of question and discards any responsibility. Are we all equal in God's eyes or not?



Loving someone does not mean that you have to approve of everything they do.

I'm capable of loving someone without approving of all of their actions. Are you saying you are not capable of loving someone if they do something that you think they should not do?

All have sinned. Some turn away from their sins and some don't.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted February 13, 2011 08:26 PM

Your future projector gave me a deja vu...

Do it again!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 13, 2011 08:37 PM

Quote:
Are you saying you are not capable of loving someone if they do something that you think they should not do?


Depends. On what bases are you deciding the gays should not do "I don't know what". If a man is not attracted by woman and he loves instead another man, a cat or a goat, why are you judging this. Explain me please why this is sin. With your words and thoughts, not quoting from "the truth about anything".
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 13, 2011 10:27 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 22:28, 13 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

A church that is actually a Christian church would not unite gays because God will not unite them. yada yada

What I find incredible is that it is sooo easy for a christian affirm he is full of love and tolerance, but when he does not want to accept something, it is not his fault, but GOD's word, he puts himself totally out of question and discards any responsibility. Are we all equal in God's eyes or not?


Loving someone does not mean that you have to approve of everything they do.

I'm capable of loving someone without approving of all of their actions. Are you saying you are not capable of loving someone if they do something that you think they should not do?

All have sinned. Some turn away from their sins and some don't.

But then, tolerating something means staying out of others' business as long as it doesn't involve you. If you truely think there is a God, let him take care of the judging when that becomes relevant.

When that is said, I do agree with you that whether churches choose to wed homosexuals is a matter for the church and the church only. The church is a private organisation that makes its own rules, and if you do not like the rule, you can just leave and make your own organisation (or find another church that suites your needs better, if there is such a one).

As long as there are legal options that allows gays to get registered and thus have the same rights legally and echonomically as heterosexuals, what church does is a matter for them only. One can say many things about consistency of christian chruch through time (and I could say A LOT of things on that topic), but at the end of the day, if I had chosen to call myself christian, that's something I'd chosen, and I would have signed up for the package as it is, which is not for myself to put together.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 13, 2011 11:31 PM

It's clear, that a church - the representants of one or more beings considered godly - will not bless something their god(s) abolish.
That said, there seem to be a dissens of whether a man may be married with more than one woman - there are those Christians who would allow this. Or are Mormons no Christians?

Anyway, let's say a Christian priest is to wed a pair, a man and a woman.
Shortly before the marriage the husband confesses to the priest, that he's actually gay (and intends to have gay sex in the future)and wants to marry for appearances only. He will try to sire children, if he'll be able, ánd that the children should have a real family with a mum and a dad.
Now what?
And what, if it's the bride who confesses, saying she does it to have some children, and she wants the children to have a normal family, but she will have a lesbian relationship within her marriage.
Same question.

Anyway, there is a difference, whether a society discusses homosexuality and there are actually voices against it or whether laws are made, that punish homosexuality, even with death.
Same with drugs. It's obviously a difference whether you warn against smoking or whether you forbid it by law and punish everyone who smokes, making it illegal and punishable.
There is no denying that making it a crime and forbidden by law happened under Christian influence, when state and religion were very close with each other.

As everything, it seems to be a question of interpretation. Sure, if you read the Old Testament you just can't shake the feeling that God, the father, has something against homosexuality, and the idea he might bless a union between two men seems ludicrous.
You can basically see him grumbling and griping about it, like, "This is not the way I intended things to be - they must do things the way I designed them! Do they have to take everything and..."
But actually you can basically seeing Jesus as well, saying, like !Ah, Dad, stop griping already. You know how they are - after all you made them. They didn't pick becoming gay when they were born, so let them be. Don't judge them - and if they really love each other and have best intentions, why not allowing them to be happy?"

In the end it's the Churches's call, and whatever they do, it's theirs to decide.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted February 14, 2011 12:22 AM
Edited by Elodin at 00:27, 14 Feb 2011.

Quote:

But actually you can basically seeing Jesus as well, saying, like !Ah, Dad, stop griping already. You know how they are - after all you made them. They didn't pick becoming gay when they were born, so let them be. Don't judge them - and if they really love each other and have best intentions, why not allowing them to be happy?"



Nah, gays are not born gay and Jesus said nothing of the sort.

Sorry, but what you see in the New Testament is Jesus confirming one man one woman marriage. Jesus in fact is God existing as a man and constantly was making reference to the Old Covenant Scriptures.

Quote:

Mat 19:4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?



How many people are there, JJ? TWO. A male and a female. Not a male and a male or a female and a female. A male and a female.

Quote:

It's clear, that a church - the representants of one or more beings considered godly - will not bless something their god(s) abolish.
That said, there seem to be a dissens of whether a man may be married with more than one woman - there are those Christians who would allow this. Or are Mormons no Christians?



Please see above quotations of Jesus. I don't care what any denominational doctrine says. It is wrong if it rejects what the New Testament says. However, you seem to be unaware that Mormons no longer support polygamy.

God did allow multiple wives in the Old Covenant as a means of providing for women.

However when you read the New Covenant there are quite a few verses that talk about marriage being one man and one woman. In the epistles that give teachings about marriage it always talks about a singular husband and a singular wife for instance.

Quote:

Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33  Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.



Perhaps you can read verse 31 again, JJ. It says TWO. One husband and one wife. Not two husbands or two wives. Not two husbands and one wife. Not one husband and two wives. Ect.

Quote:
Anyway, let's say a Christian priest is to wed a pair, a man and a woman.
Shortly before the marriage the husband confesses to the priest, that he's actually gay (and intends to have gay sex in the future)and wants to marry for appearances only. He will try to sire children, if he'll be able, ánd that the children should have a real family with a mum and a dad.
Now what?



Then the priest should not wed them. The man is a liar and deceiver and his word means nothing to him. The man is being deceitful and cheating his prospective wife and has said that he will not honor the marriage vows. He is merely using the woman as an object to try to hide his sin. He has shown that other people mean nothing to him, even people that trust and love him.

Quote:
There is no denying that making it a crime and forbidden by law happened under Christian influence, when state and religion were very close with each other.



Gay marriage has pretty much been unacceptable for all of recorded history in pretty much every culture. As I mentioned, plenty of gays have been murdered in officially atheist nations.

I'll repeat again, the church is not authorized to punish any sinner for any sin. Anyone claiming to do so in the name of Christ is a liar.

Christians are to love sinners, pray for sinners, do good to sinners, and share the gospel with sinners. Not to punish sinners. Again, anyone who says the New Testament says for the church to punish sinners is a liar.

Quote:

As everything, it seems to be a question of interpretation.



No it is not. Male means male. Female means female. Two means two.

It is a matter of integrity and wanting to know the truth instead of twisting the Word of God into what you wish he had said.

Mat 19:4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
____________
Revelation

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 14, 2011 12:56 AM

Quote:
Nah, gays are not born gay.

Sorry, I don't really care for all the rest you say, but either I would like you to show proof for this statement, or otherwise admit that this is your belief, and not a fact.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
baklava
baklava


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
posted February 14, 2011 01:37 AM

Inb4 "show me proof they are"
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted February 14, 2011 01:54 AM

Pics or it didn't happen!
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Prince of Poetry
posted February 14, 2011 01:55 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 02:19, 14 Feb 2011.

Who cares if it's inborn or not? Research suggests it is inborn; that it is a defect, much like being color blind or dyslexic. Ultimately, it's very likely that a person can potentially acquire bisexuality as well (to a limited extent), given that humans are shown to be highly adaptable and flexible in all other areas of life. Prisoners and such can experience temporary bisexuality, and there are also seemingly cases of heterosexual people that become bisexual later in life.

There's still a lot to learn about the precise mechanisms of it. One would think that homosexuality would be weeded out seeing as how homosexuals are less likely to breed, but we can only guess how many homosexuals over the centuries ended up mating with someone of the opposite gender because it was the social norm, or because they wanted to have children, or both. Or of course, it could just be an anomaly that can pop up during the fertilization process in the same way twins can happen.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 33 pages long: 1 10 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 30 33 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0758 seconds