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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: What I don't want in H6
Thread: What I don't want in H6 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2009 05:21 PM

I don't see what's imba about the initiative system, phoenixes are designed to be uber-powerful and earth elementals are only supposed to stand and retaliate. Most creatures are still between 8-12 limits. The only thing that makes it imba are imba artifacts like ring of speed you can buy for a ridiculous low price from a merchant.

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archwarl0ck
archwarl0ck


Adventuring Hero
Dank memesiah
posted September 25, 2009 07:52 PM

Quote:
I don't see what's imba about the initiative system

The fact that some creatures can make more turns than others.

Quote:
The only thing that makes it imba are imba artifacts like ring of speed you can buy for a ridiculous low price from a merchant.

I would add the 40% Haste\Slow spells, that's too much. And that's what I'd also like to be out of Heroes 6.
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I have a knack for perceiving things - I can see how it sounds, I can feel how it sings

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 25, 2009 11:45 PM

Quote:
The fact that some creatures can make more turns than others.


That makes just as much sense as saying some creatures have more HP then others. Initiative is just one of those statistics that determine the power of a creature.

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pei
pei


Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
posted September 26, 2009 12:42 AM

Wow...i agree with most of you people...

i think all of you should be in the developer´s staff... i dont know why games companies do not take fans addicted to [insert game product] to assist in [insert game product sequel] design.  

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archwarl0ck
archwarl0ck


Adventuring Hero
Dank memesiah
posted September 26, 2009 11:12 AM

Quote:
That makes just as much sense as saying some creatures have more HP then others. Initiative is just one of those statistics that determine the power of a creature.

I would have agreed if initiative was affacting only the turn order. The current system makes disproportional difference between low and high initiative creatures. High defence and many HP won't do much if your opponent attacks two or even more times than you do your turn. And one extra turn is an extra chance for a luck or morale to work - I'd say that's too much.
I've played some ATB-based games and I can't remember a single one where you can do more turns than the enemy. Only bosses or special creatures were capable of that.

I'm sure that this addition made some kind of improvement and I really agree that a mixed order is better than a never changing one. But the system shoud have it's sharp edges smoothed. It should be not predictable, but controllable. Leaving the mixed order and cutting out the extra turns (and procent-based buffs) should do fine, IMO.

And not to go too much off topic, here's a thing I don't wanna see - gigantic models that cover some special objects or fellow creatures on the battlefield. I'd also like some object's (like castles) to have a smaller size, that would do better in terms of filling the map with objects.

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I have a knack for perceiving things - I can see how it sounds, I can feel how it sings

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 26, 2009 11:18 AM

Quote:
Quote:
The fact that some creatures can make more turns than others.


That makes just as much sense as saying some creatures have more HP then others. Initiative is just one of those statistics that determine the power of a creature.


Exactly, there's nothing wrong with this. Problem comes with 1 Blood Fury taking out a horde of Earth Elementals, but that kind of exploits were always possible in Heroes, and is not due to Initiative.
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What will happen now?

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 26, 2009 07:24 PM

Quote:
i dont know why games companies do not take fans addicted to [insert game product] to assist in [insert game product sequel] design.  


Oh, that is a very easy quetsion Pei.
I think Ben "Yathzee" Crosshaw said it best when he said: "Fans are clingy, complaining dipsh1ts who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it."
The thing is that no matter what game developers do, fan will always complain. If they make it to much like the prequel, there will be complaints that they are not inovative enough. If they don't make it enough like the prequel, fans will complain that the developers are estranging themselves from the fans. It is simply impossible to please fans. No matter what you do, fans will always say that the previous installment was better, untill you release a new sequel to take the bottom of the list.
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rottenvenetic
rottenvenetic


Known Hero
Derusticated
posted September 26, 2009 10:14 PM

So the best solution is not to be a fan of anything

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 26, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:
So the best solution is not to be a fan of anything


No, that is not what I'm saying. I'm trying to explain why developers rarely ask fans what they want when they are developing a a sequel/prequel.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted September 26, 2009 10:52 PM

I'd like a story written by competent writers ala Heroes 4 vanilla.  Sack the present team and recruit someone understands how to successfully avoid a cliché. I don't mind Ashan as a universe but I don't have any fondness for it either - unlike the original universe it's inherently generic, so a third reboot would actually sit fine with me.

I'd like an art style designed by competent artists who plagarise nothing external. I have no desire to see Warhammer's Dark Elf faction lazily shoehorned into the game with the intent of siphoning hype from other consumer bases. I'd like something unique and yet familiar.

I don't want Ubisoft to muck up the game at the developers' expense. The developers' vision and ideas must take precedence over the publisher in more matters than with H5 (especially story, given what the publisher's efforts have yielded so far).

I'd like the content of the game to appear in the vanilla release and not through a series of multiple, month-spanning patches. These exist to improve titles, not to complete them. But I do want patches and not year-long waits followed by excuses (Nival?).

I don't really want another Heroes V or Disciples III fiasco in which the developers promise the game will be ready as soon as the last expansion arrives in two years. And if the industry doesn't allow that sort of thing any more then I'd at least like a beta map editor included so I get something to do with the product I bought.

I'd like as many positive revolutions as I can handle but I wouldn't like to play a Civilization clone or an RTS. I'd like original ideas but not at the expense of the game.

I'd like the game to play as a homage to the RTS genre. Since I have a sort of intimation that it may well be the last HoMM, I'd like it to work as not a mere sequel, but a tribute. I'd like a swan song for the series and not a whimper.

I speak only for myself; the above is what I'd like, it may not be what I'm going to get, but this is after all an altar of wishes.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Mitzah
Mitzah


Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
posted September 26, 2009 10:58 PM
Edited by Mitzah at 23:20, 26 Sep 2009.

We should make a list of 10-15 commandments for Ubisoft.

LE: No, really, let's do this! We could choose 10-15 topics like graphics, story, sounds etc. and make threads with polls and pictures. It should be something like :

1. Graphics - The unit/creature design should :

a. be completely new;
b. be the same, but without external influences (Warhammer and so on);
c. be inspired by the M&M and H1-H4 creature design;

[pics with warhammer dark elves so that players will see from where they really come from]

After that, we should spread the word (news, posts on other forums) so that people will vote and express their opinions.

Something like that. Otherwise, Ubisoft will just consider that there were "a few users who don't like the design here and there, but the others really liked the external influences and stuff. We have to please the 'majority' !".
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KnightofHonour
KnightofHonour


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2009 11:30 PM

Sure, a better and more original story is a must, so no repetitive, somewhat lame stories. Make the stories have more sense, sometimes the missions seemed to be there just to reach the campaign quota.

Also, I might be a minority here, but I actually think the scale of creatures should be bigger like in the Disciples series (Dragons really big, huge scary demons, etc.), even though I realize it would probably mess with the mechanics of the game, the battlefields would have to be even bigger, etc. Basically it would be good to have bigger creatures on scale whilst keeping the proportions in numbers of the battle (weekly growth for every faction and such) and everything else like the heroes series. In summary, no small creatures when they are supposed to be huge.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 27, 2009 12:43 AM

Not a H4 remake or a "complete revoulotion" xD
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
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Zazu1
Zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted September 28, 2009 05:24 AM

My only complaint about H5 is the creatures.  Other than that I thought that Heroes 5 was pretty awesome.  The #1 thing I don't want from H6 are castles like H5's fortress or really castles based on one creature type.  I was one who thought that initiative was a nice addition to creature statistics.  In a way I would like to see Heroes 6 with approximately Heroes 3 castles, Heroes 5 game play and much more...  also better balance and definitely better AI .

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KaiserYoshi
KaiserYoshi


Hired Hero
It's clobberin' time!
posted September 28, 2009 06:06 AM

I've never played H5, but from what I've heard, the initiative system sounds a load of garbage. Phoenixes going twice or three times while the Golems only get one move? That's not even close to fair. Unlinking speed and turn order, fine. Extra moves for free? Try again, folks.

One thing I'd like to see gone for good is having to lose an entire turn's movement just to get on a boat. Maybe take a small penalty, but not all of it. It makes island-based maps sluggish and annoying.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 28, 2009 06:53 AM

Quote:
I've never played H5, but from what I've heard, the initiative system sounds a load of garbage. Phoenixes going twice or three times while the Golems only get one move? That's not even close to fair. Unlinking speed and turn order, fine. Extra moves for free? Try again, folks.
Okay, let's weight the Phoenix up against a comparable unit, say a Green Dragon
Dragon / Phoenix
Cost: 2500 +1 gem / 10000
Attack: 27 / 33
Defence: 25 / 33
Damage: 30-50 / 30-50
Initiative: 12 / 19
Speed: 8 / 10
Hitpoints: 200 /150
Abilities: Acid Breath / Fire Shield, Immunity To Fire, Rebirth.

From this we can see that while the Phoenix is indeed a better creature in most respects, in terms of cost it's way out of the range of most players (it costs more than a Capitol + Grail Building's daily output), and is quite flimsy (goes down to a Lightning Bolt of 7, 8, 10 or 13 power depending on mastery). As good as the Phoenix is, against a spellcaster hero it's not going to live long.

Quote:
One thing I'd like to see gone for good is having to lose an entire turn's movement just to get on a boat. Maybe take a small penalty, but not all of it. It makes island-based maps sluggish and annoying.
totally agree.

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pei
pei


Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
posted September 28, 2009 07:13 AM
Edited by pei at 08:15, 28 Sep 2009.

Quote:
The thing is that no matter what game developers do, fan will always complain. If they make it to much like the prequel, there will be complaints that they are not inovative enough. If they don't make it enough like the prequel, fans will complain that the developers are estranging themselves from the fans. It is simply impossible to please fans. No matter what you do, fans will always say that the previous installment was better, untill you release a new sequel to take the bottom of the list.


I know...i live it at work, i develop systems for companies and when the company is big enough(will never reach the amount of heroes saga fans but will do as an example)then its it impossible to satisfy all stakeholders BUT if they open their mouth in time THEN they can make a change on the product. You will always get complains if your product is lame on some points.

Sometimes, we are asked to improve old systems. These improvements are a very subjective matter. If i had to continue the success of a world wide known system i would simple study it before and get to know what the client wants. This company did it but also Ubi went too far just wanting to radically change stuff only studying the "new market" possibilities. BTW im not referring to the game itself here but to some aspects of the epic saga. So now they made a Street Fighter kind of game out of heroes? The aim for the bloody profits have cast a blind spell on these so called developers. So...storyline was just too "hard" for them to continue and they erased it like nothing, took what they wanted from it and created a snow...why? They could have done the same story in the old universe.


When i play heroes i expect a certain quality in a lot of different aspects,i.e. storyline, and if the "new developers" just cant seem to make improvements then product will be "complainable". To cry and say "Fans always complain" is a pathetic company excuse, all companies live the same issue but they still offer the best of them to the fans.


I dont want to sound like an ogre magi so i will add that a lot of aspects of the game are really good but this is not the "Cool H5 features" thread. It is supossed to be a critic, an opinion of what i wish for the future. If i had to wish anything i would not ask about the battle, skills or building system but for the game context and a faster engine.

Amen.

BTW if you read this http://www.mightandmagic.com/HeroesV/us/keys.php ...and play H5 then an idea will surely magically appear in your head... ubi either thinks the plot is amazing or its a joke.

BTW2 i dont know what ubi was thinking with female creatures being such a ...

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Zazu1
Zazu1


Adventuring Hero
Makes Sense
posted September 28, 2009 05:38 PM

Quote:
One thing I'd like to see gone for good is having to lose an entire turn's movement just to get on a boat. Maybe take a small penalty, but not all of it. It makes island-based maps sluggish and annoying.


Yes. Yes. YES! I don't know why they always kept this the same.  It should be a small penalty... but not an entire turn.

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elderane
elderane

Tavern Dweller
posted September 30, 2009 11:56 AM

Quote:
One thing I'd like to see gone for good is having to lose an entire turn's movement just to get on a boat. Maybe take a small penalty, but not all of it. It makes island-based maps sluggish and annoying.


Oh my beloved God finally the one thing I wished and was never able to shout it out loud

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 30, 2009 12:01 PM

The other thing that's annoyed me for a long time, why the hells can't you control the war machines (and arrow towers if you're in siege defence) right off the bat, I mean they are part of your army right?

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