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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted November 16, 2009 10:45 AM |
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and also, can you do script:
during Tactics round in combat, i would like to make active creature by CTRL+clicking on it. This will allow to re-arrange troops quickly.
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 16, 2009 11:36 AM |
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@SAG
I think your problem with magogs is the damage to your troops, right?
You can easily script this by giving on magogs shoot action BG:A7 immunity to physical attacks to all creatures from inferno. (MF:E0) It will solve the problem without a possible cheat. It can be modified to give immunity to other creatures as well from current attacking side but needs modifications.
!?MF1;
!!BG:A?y1;
!!FU&y1<>7:E; **if not shoot exit
!!BG:N?y1;
!!BMy1:T?y2;
!!FU&y2<>45:E; **if not magogs exit
!!MF:N?y3;
!!BMy3:T?y4;
!!MF&y4>41/y4<56:E0; ** all inferno immune to magogs damage
May be tricky to script if both sides are inferno.
For tactics this is very hard. Sagamosa already answered you that it will take a lot of work for only a commodity.
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re: SAG and changing battle arrangements during tactics.
I would say it could be done with stack flags, waiting and done acting appropriate stacks, I did something like that when preparing my anticipation script, where retaliation goes even before stack's attack action, waiting attacking stack and then bringing it to action again after opposing stack retaliation.
however it's quite complicated and for me the effect is not worth the time invested.
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Why there is no any good WOG map exist? At least, I don't know any good (that was played by many players and got good rating on map websites) :) Just because WOG-mapmakers make game for themself and main idea is to make ALL DIFFERENT from original game and make too many changes!
You silly ignorant!:P
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Era II mods and utilities
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 16, 2009 12:01 PM |
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Quote:
Why there is no any good WOG map exist? At least, I don't know any good (that was played by many players and got good rating on map websites)  Just because WOG-mapmakers make game for themself and main idea is to make ALL DIFFERENT from original game and make too many changes!
Have to disagree a lot here. There are many good WOG maps out there, but just for single players of course.
It just depends on your play style. "Typical" h3 maps like Alexander the Great or The Empire of the World III or Time of Prophec are great maps. Same class as well known original h3 maps like Lord of War, To Kill for Power, Unleashing the Bloodthirsty, Lone Knight, etc...
Maps like 300 have a different clientele in my eyes.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 16, 2009 12:04 PM |
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 12:50 PM |
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Quote:
please do the following ERM script:
i have Magogs in combat, now their turn. I would like to have them shooting as simple gogs when i press CTRL button and shoot as magogs if CTRL is not pressed. I tryed to change creature flag, but failed to get result.
Hmm, that needs experimenting. I think changing the flag may not work. But it seems possible to change the creature type without changing their visual appearance. I've never done that, so this needs experimenting.
But indeed interesting idea. Would make magogs much more useful.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 12:51 PM |
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Quote:
and also, can you do script:
during Tactics round in combat, i would like to make active creature by CTRL+clicking on it. This will allow to re-arrange troops quickly.
Don't know if this is possible with erm. It is possible to get current stack number, but set? Don't know. And then, how to tell when 1 tactics round is done and next begins?
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SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
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posted November 16, 2009 05:21 PM |
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Quote:
I think your problem with magogs is the damage to your troops, right?
Problem is damage to any of my troops. I may have magogs+angels+wyverns in my army and I wanna select either multiple (magog) attack or single (gog) attack. Of course, my magogs should be able to shoot any creature, be it inferno or whatever. I coudn't make it with ERM...
P.S. script should not destroy/create stacks, because creation of stacks has limits as far as i know.
P.P.S. anyway thanks that you try to help 
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May be tricky to script if both sides are inferno.
Unacceptable.
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For tactics this is very hard. Sagamosa already answered you that it will take a lot of work for only a commodity.
I didn't say that it is easy. I just say that people may say "thank you" for making game a bit more easy.
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however it's quite complicated and for me the effect is not worth the time invested.
Let's wait for someone who will do it.
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Have to disagree a lot here. There are many good WOG maps out there, but just for single players of course.
I was speaking about SP maps. There are a lot good SP maps that can be played with WOG, but 99% of them were made for SOD. At least my wife can't say any name of good WOG map (she has played ~500 XL and L SP maps both in SOD and WOG and ~250 campaigns).
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Alexander the Great or The Empire of the World III or Time of Prophec
I will download them for my wife. They all have WOG features, right? Any idea about which WOG options must be enabled/disabled for these maps?
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But it seems possible to change the creature type
I don't think it's possible with ERM
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I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 08:22 PM |
bonus applied by angelito on 17 Nov 2009. |
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Quote:
Quote:
But it seems possible to change the creature type
I don't think it's possible with ERM
I'll search for it. I don't remember exactly, but i think i once saw something like that. Like temporarily changing cyclopes into a catapult when attacking walls. Or something like that. I do not rememer exactly. But if i find it, i'll script it.
Although then in a more general way: If ctr-click then (if upgraded stack) temporarily unupgrade stack. But it may take time until i find it
BTW: next gimmik working:
How this? Well, there are those creature banks. Useless after you have taken them. But now: If you take them, first, you get your usual creature and/or resource bonus. But then the growth rate of that creature type is increased (in this case it was a griffin conservatory. How much increased depends on hero. If taken by any hero of different alignment that this creature bank, then increase growth rate by 1. If taken by a hero of same alignment, then increase growth by 8-creature level. If the hero is a specialist for this type, then double creature growth.
Then, after that, the creature bank is removed and replaced by a dwelling of that type that looks like the creature bank (no visual difference to before). So now you can recruit this creature type here. Plus in this special "dwelling" you now additionally can recruite the upgraded version.
Basic growth is 7. Doubled by taking the conservatory = 14. Doubled by castle =28 Plus some extras...
This is horde building
With this i think those dragon fly hieves are quite useful. If i remember correct, in one of the RoE campaign maps there is a map with i think 4 dragon fly hieves If all taken by the right hero...
BTW: I'm planning similar things for the dragon utopia. It is too kind of creature bank. And crypt and warriors tomb, too. But now dragon utopia: I thought of increasing dragon growth when taking this. Which dragons depend on which hero class took it. So for dungeon increase growth of red and black dragons. For rampart, increase growth of gree, gold, diamond and fairy dragons. For fortress, increase growth of hydras, chaos hydras, basilisks, wyverns,...
For other factions i currently do not know. maybe for tower increase crystal dragon growth? And what about rust dragons, azure dragons and the others?
Then after that change the dragon utopia into a dwelling for 4 dragon types, depending on taking hero. Still unsure what to do if castle, tower, or stronghold hero took it.
O.k. for necromancers, the target will be bone dragons, ghost dragons and dracolichs.
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 09:54 PM |
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I like your creature banks idea, especially if the hero is choosing the creature growth reward.
By the way, are you saying that if the player has hired an Overlord in a Rampart, he will be given red dragons if he visits a dragon utopia ?
Some of your bonuses are way too powerful I think. Increase the lvl 7 creature growth and even make recruitable more mighty creatures in cities can create an über hero in a couple of weeks.
Anyway, I love the WoG option which refills the creature banks every month. It works well with your idea. You have to fight in the creature bank every month to get back your creature growth bonus. That would render the feature less overpowered.
Last point : why would you give hydras, wyverns and basilisks to an utopia-beater Beastmaster or Witch ? That sounds weird to me, especially when you already have the Dragon Fly Hive for wyverns.
Maybe linking the reward to the hero is not the best solution here.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 09:22 AM |
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Quote:
I like your creature banks idea, especially if the hero is choosing the creature growth reward.
Well, it's not choosing, it's automatic.
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By the way, are you saying that if the player has hired an Overlord in a Rampart, he will be given red dragons if he visits a dragon utopia ?
Yes. Simply depends on hero class.
Just: Dragon utopia is currently only a plan, an idea. Not fully developed idea. Many open issues.
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Some of your bonuses are way too powerful I think. Increase the lvl 7 creature growth and even make recruitable more mighty creatures in cities can create an über hero in a couple of weeks.
Yes, this is powerful indeed. O.k., thise lvl 7 creatures get a growth increase by 1 only. Even if taken by mutare drake, the first dragon utopia increases dragon growth by 1, not more. But this indeed is enough.
Recruitment in cities: In the cities dwellings you can only recruit 2 types. So this is not changed. Just the grow rate is increased. The new dwelling is an external dwelling, where you can recruit up to 4 creatures. So after taking the dragon utopia, the object still looks like an dragon utopia, but is now a dragon dwelling with up to 4 dragon types to hire.
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Anyway, I love the WoG option which refills the creature banks every month. It works well with your idea. You have to fight in the creature bank every month to get back your creature growth bonus. That would render the feature less overpowered.
Well, that would not work together. After taking the bank, there is no more bank. There is dwelling. So no refill.
But if you can tell me the option number, i'll disable that if this option is activated.
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Last point : why would you give hydras, wyverns and basilisks to an utopia-beater Beastmaster or Witch ? That sounds weird to me, especially when you already have the Dragon Fly Hive for wyverns.
Well the dragon fly hive will change into a dragon fly (resp. serpent fly) dwelling, no wyvern. And the only dragon-like creatures of fortress i know is hydra, wyvern and basilisk. The dwelling would still allow one more type to be hired, but i have no idea which. But maybe it's not necessary to setup a dwelling with always 4 types. Maybe 3 are enough.
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Maybe linking the reward to the hero is not the best solution here.
Hmm, then linking to what?
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 10:44 AM |
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I'm currently thinking about the AT+/DF+ equivalent for inferno. I think, they may get some AT+ and some speed+, depending on secondary skills. So for AT+ it should be similar to castle/rampart/tower. But what to check for speed+? Logistics? Leadership? Any ideas?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2009 10:52 AM |
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The better way before starting this would be to check HCTRAITS.txt from H3bitmap.lod to see the % for every faction to get secondary skills. For example the chances for demoniac/heretic to get leader ship are very low (3 and 2)and % to get logistic are 10 and 3. Quite far one from the other.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 11:19 AM |
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Well, yes. Although the intention is not necessarily to choose very probable skill combinations. But indeed the goal is to choose typical skills. So leadership seems to be an untypical skill.
I think, diplomacy is a typical inferno skill. But that would give a complete different bonus. Castle already has a political bonus: If has diplomacy and estates, gets some peasants for free each week. And every peasant then pays taxes. For rampart i think in same situation will get free halflings. For inferno i currently do not know what. But still, the political bonus is different from the tactical combat bonus.
BTW: For tower i'm thinking of kind of political horde bonus: Gremlins and master gremlins producing golems (or gargoyles for Piquedram) for free each week. Numbers depending on numbers of gremlins. Not sure of skills. Maybe estates and armorer.
Currently i'm experimenting with this:
a) An inferno hero having tactics and offense gets an AT bonus similar to castle/rampart/tower. Castle may get both. Rampart get AT+ if attacking and DF+ if defending. So do tower. Now Inferno always gets AT+, regardless of attacking or defending.
b) an inferno hero having logistics and leadership gets a speed horde bonus. So speed bonus depends on skills and on numbers (great idea from gnollking). May be great if too applying frency to the stacks
But indeed i'm not 100% satisfied with the prerequisites. But currently no better idea.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2009 11:29 AM |
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A lot of interesting ideas could be borrowed from other games, as Disciples or Age of Wonders. I recall that they had a dynamic balance between evil and good side which could be translated: more evil side heros the player owns, more powerful his creatures are. An idea would be: for every additional evil hero the inferno player gains bonuses, chances to convert mines on the map, join evil creatures, create fog of war in good factions area, etc etc. Of course, MP would be out of question but it still would be fun for a stand alone mod.
But this brings me too:
You know what was for me the hardest part when making WoG maps? Not scripting, not designing, not balancing. Having ideas. Once the idea is there and clean, scripting it is a piece of cake.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 11:47 AM |
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Ok, I understand your idea better.
You will find the refilled creature banks here : Option 235, script 57.
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Hmm, then linking to what?
The problem if you get the reward according to the visiting hero class, is where can you recruit the new creature, the nearest town ? all of the towns ?
There is one thing I don't fully understand. Let's say you only have one town, a castle. You beat a dragon utopia, so you can recruit one red dragon per week in your city too (or am I wrong here).
What happens if you take a dragon fly hive then, since there is only 8 slots for creatures recruitment in towns ? Do you see the red dragons or the dragon flies, or does it stay a simple external dwelling which doesn't allow to recruit them since this is not the proper town ?
I think it would be better to link the defeated creature bank to the town of your choice, so you always get the unit you want.
Can't imagine the amount of work of such a feature though, I'm just another guy who doesn't spend time to learn ERM 
EDIT :
Concerning your class oriented synergies : I love it, but it can be a huge task, considering the same synergies would give different bonuses according to the hero class.
To me, each hero class should have a unique ability (like in Homm5), then synergies would work the same to every hero (except if you plan to give creatures through synergies, of course linked to the class).
Feel free to ask for ideas, or feel free not to ask if you think I'm bothering you 
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 01:14 PM |
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Quote:
Ok, I understand your idea better.
You will find the refilled creature banks here : Option 235, script 57.
Thanks, i'll add that.
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Quote:
Hmm, then linking to what?
The problem if you get the reward according to the visiting hero class, is where can you recruit the new creature, the nearest town ? all of the towns ?
No, directly in this new dwelling. As i said: The creature bank is replaced by a creature dwelling which looks like the creature bank. So it looks like a creature bank, but it is a creature dwelling. For griffin conservatory, it is replaced by a griffin dwelling. For dragon fly hive it is replaced by a serpent fly dwelling. And so on. The only difference to a normal dwelling is that you can hier unupgraded as well as upgraded version.
Similar for dragon utopia: It is replaced by a dragon dwelling. This dragon dwelling then may offer up to 4 dragon types.
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There is one thing I don't fully understand. Let's say you only have one town, a castle. You beat a dragon utopia, so you can recruit one red dragon per week in your city too (or am I wrong here).
Wrong No, i don't change the type of creatuers to be hired in any town. I just change the general growth rate. So if you have a town where you normally can recruit this creature, now you can recruit more.
And this is the main problem i have here with castle, inferno and stronghold: No idea for type of dwelling to replace dragon utopia with. And for confluxx too no idea. I think it would be extremely strange if i'd replace the dragon utopia by a portal of glory looking like a dragon utopia where you can hire angels and archangels. Very strange. Not what i want to.
For tower the problem is similar, but not that serious: I think of changind it into a crystal dragon dwelling. Crystal dragons are aligned with tower. The only dragon type, as far as i know. But at least some.
So tower would not get any hireable crystal dragon in town, but gets an external crystal dragon dwelling.
Now clear?
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What happens if you take a dragon fly hive then, since there is only 8 slots for creatures recruitment in towns ? Do you see the red dragons or the dragon flies, or does it stay a simple external dwelling which doesn't allow to recruit them since this is not the proper town ?
If taken a dragon fly hive, then the general growth rate of dragon flies and serpent flies is increased. Then the dragon fly hive is replaced by a serpent fly dwelling which looks like a dragon fly hive. Just this, nothing else.
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I think it would be better to link the defeated creature bank to the town of your choice, so you always get the unit you want.
Hmmm...
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Can't imagine the amount of work of such a feature though, I'm just another guy who doesn't spend time to learn ERM
Quote:
EDIT :
Concerning your class oriented synergies : I love it, but it can be a huge task, considering the same synergies would give different bonuses according to the hero class.
To me, each hero class should have a unique ability (like in Homm5), then synergies would work the same to every hero (except if you plan to give creatures through synergies, of course linked to the class).
Indeed, a huge task
Well, some synergies will be the same or similar to nearly all or some classes. Others will be different. Necros will get almost everything different.
The per hero speciality is somewhat simulated. In h3 we do not have this unique ability. So i simulate part of it by a) hero speciality, b) heroes first skill and c) heroes second skill. These 3 parts are unique for each hero. Each hero comes out of box with these 3. Some do only have 2 preset (speciality and first skill), so these may be developed in some direction, with some luck
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Feel free to ask for ideas, or feel free not to ask if you think I'm bothering you
Well, this thread is for asking for ideas! And feedback. I get more and better ideas when discussing that here.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
A lot of interesting ideas could be borrowed from other games, as Disciples or Age of Wonders. I recall that they had a dynamic balance between evil and good side which could be translated: more evil side heros the player owns, more powerful his creatures are. An idea would be: for every additional evil hero the inferno player gains bonuses, chances to convert mines on the map, join evil creatures, create fog of war in good factions area, etc etc. Of course, MP would be out of question but it still would be fun for a stand alone mod.
Very interesting ideas. I keep them until i know more concrete what and how to do. But indeed interesting.
The problem here is: We have a hero alignment, but no player alignment. It may not even be possible to deduct player alignment from the majority of his towns at start of game: It may be possible that a player has no town at start. So what then?
Hmmm, get the heroes and their classes and set player alignment to the majority? And what if several alignments equal? What if, let's say, has 1 rampart town and 1 castle town and 1 castle hero and 1 rampart hero? What is then players alignment? Or if player has 1 castle town but only 1 tower hero? What player alignment?
O.k., it is not possible that he has nothing. Any player needs at least a hero or a town. So the question is how to prioritize that. What should result in what player alignment?
And if we had a player alignment, we could add a bonus/malus for aligned/not aligned heroes the player has. And the bonus you mentioned above could be adjusted by aligned/opposite hero classes, so in fact the bonus may become a malus.
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But this brings me too:
You know what was for me the hardest part when making WoG maps? Not scripting, not designing, not balancing. Having ideas. Once the idea is there and clean, scripting it is a piece of cake.
Yes. And for ideas this thread is!
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 02:03 PM |
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Ok, I totally get it now. I was still thinking is worked like the Dungeon's portal of summoning. You can forget the link to the town rather than the Hero, I agree with you on this since I get the whole idea now
I agree too, what creature would get a Knight visiting that kind of creature bank 
Quote:
The per hero speciality is somewhat simulated. In h3 we do not have this unique ability. So i simulate part of it by a) hero speciality, b) heroes first skill and c) heroes second skill. These 3 parts are unique for each hero. Each hero comes out of box with these 3. Some do only have 2 preset (speciality and first skill), so these may be developed in some direction, with some luck
Ok, get it that too, I think 
So you want to create synergies with the hero specialization and the 2 secondary skills the hero has in the beginning ?
What about giving each hero a unique specialization by changing those who have the same (e.g. Tazar, Mephala...).
Don't know if it is possible though.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 02:21 PM |
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Quote:
Ok, I totally get it now. I was still thinking is worked like the Dungeon's portal of summoning. You can forget the link to the town rather than the Hero, I agree with you on this since I get the whole idea now
I agree too, what creature would get a Knight visiting that kind of creature bank
Yes, a problem. Although i just could increase then any angels and archangels growth by 1 (or doubling growth if taken by an angels specialist - is there any?). But still open issue is: What to replace the dragon utopia with? Maybe in this case i could just replace it by a gold mine? Same, if stronghold hero takes it. Confluxx too?
Quote:
Ok, get it that too, I think
So you want to create synergies with the hero specialization and the 2 secondary skills the hero has in the beginning ?
Partly, yes. The synergies to not really depend on specialisation. But the right specialisation increases the synergy effect.
So assume the scouting/eagle eye synergy. If Orrin strives for that, he may get a maximum revealing radius of 6. But if f.ex. Sanya gets these 2, then she gets a maximum reveale radius of 10 (3 for expert eagle eye, 3 for expert scouting, 3 for eagle eye speciality and 1 for eagle eye as second skill). So any hero could develop this, but on some few this is especially effective. So somewhat indirect you're right.
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What about giving each hero a unique specialization by changing those who have the same (e.g. Tazar, Mephala...).
Don't know if it is possible though.
I thought about that. In the end this would result in some extended class type like basically introduced by Sagamosa. Although i do not like Sagamosas Idea of 1 fixed development path for each basic class. I prefere some variability.
One of the problems here is that i'd then like to change the heroes class name. Like Gem in the first SoD campaign has the class name "Sorceress". But that seems to be impossible. So second idea is to replace at least the speciality picture, and if possible, the speciality. Maybe around speciality type 5 there is some room for these extra specialities. These then have to be 100% scripted. And then there is a lack of tons of such speciality pictures. The help says there will be more in the future. Until now there are no.
But basically this would be the consequences of a developed per-hero speciality. A thing i'd really want to do, but for now i don't know if it's possible.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 03:18 PM |
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Basically i have the learning gimmik done. Still some minor things to do, but basically...
Now on each action, if the hero has learning, then:
If stack is shooting and hero has archery, get some high damage plus.
If stack is melee attacking and hero has offense, get some high damage plus.
If stack is defending and hero has armorer, then get some DF plus.
The amount is calculated like this:
Basic = learning exp + other skill exp.
If one of these skills is speciality, then add 3.
If one of these skills is second skill, add 2.
If one of these skills is second skill, add 1.
If stack type is speciality type, add 3.
then choose a random value between 0 and the calculated sum, then add this to the stacks stat.
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This thread is pages long: 
