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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 03:41 PM |
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Yes, a problem. Although i just could increase then any angels and archangels growth by 1 (or doubling growth if taken by an angels specialist - is there any?). But still open issue is: What to replace the dragon utopia with? Maybe in this case i could just replace it by a gold mine? Same, if stronghold hero takes it. Confluxx too?
There is no lvl 7 creature specialists, except campaign heroes (dragons, devils, behemoths).
You can set a lvl 7 creature specialist (any creature indeed) through ERM, but it doesn't work like the WoG specialization, only like the good old Homm3 style.
You could give Azure dragons to Castle, Rust to Stronghold, Crystal to Tower, Faerie to Conflux... I don't see anything else for now, and there is still the Inferno issue. Turn utopias into mines seems not really good to me.
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I thought about that. In the end this would result in some extended class type like basically introduced by Sagamosa. Although i do not like Sagamosas Idea of 1 fixed development path for each basic class. I prefere some variability.
One of the problems here is that i'd then like to change the heroes class name. Like Gem in the first SoD campaign has the class name "Sorceress". But that seems to be impossible. So second idea is to replace at least the speciality picture, and if possible, the speciality. Maybe around speciality type 5 there is some room for these extra specialities. These then have to be 100% scripted. And then there is a lack of tons of such speciality pictures. The help says there will be more in the future. Until now there are no.
But basically this would be the consequences of a developed per-hero speciality. A thing i'd really want to do, but for now i don't know if it's possible.
I like Sagamosa's ideas, but I didn't mean to come up with such a system either. Some if his skills ideas are good for classes unique abilities like we can see in Homm5. Let's sitck to your system for now 
I'm also pretty sure that you can change the class name with ERM, I have seen it already in some maps. Salamandre can do it for sure 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2009 03:43 PM |
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Nope, I cheated with txt files.
PS: Sagamosa never finished (would be da bomb if one day he gets it!). Start little, develop further. Too many ideas, short life.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 04:02 PM |
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Quote:
You could give Azure dragons to Castle, Rust to Stronghold, Crystal to Tower, Faerie to Conflux... I don't see anything else for now, and there is still the Inferno issue. Turn utopias into mines seems not really good to me.
Fairy dragons to confluxx? I thought they are aligned with rampart? Well, if they are aligned with confluxx, then indeed this is an option. And rust dragons to stronghold is a good idea, too.
Azure dragons to castle? Hmmm, interesting idea. Are they really aligned with castle? If not, would that make sense? If yes, i could align them with castle when taking a dragon utopia with a castle hero.
And still there is inferno... Are there any special WoG creatures that would fit here?
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 04:27 PM |
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Neutral dragons are not linked to any town. They are... neutral 
I just thought the azure could fit to the castle since he's blue like the majority of castle creatures' stuff. Only graphic opinion so...
Faerie dragons with conflux, beacause they are casters and the conflux is the most magic-oriented town in Homm3 (theorically at least, but the stats of the hero classes are not proprely linked to their description in the manual).
Concerning Inferno... well, I have some rather bad ideas to give them a dragonish creature...
-You could give them the Dracolich, since the Necropolis already has the bone/ghost dragon.
-You could give the Gorynych to the Stronghold, then leave the Rust dragon to Inferno.
I think that nothing else could fit.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 17, 2009 05:02 PM |
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I would align the neutral dragons to the castle they "belong" to refering the extra resource they cost.
Rust dragon = sulfur = Dungeon
Crystal Dragon = crystal = Rampart
Faerie Dragon = gems = Tower
Azure Dragon = mercury = Inferno
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2009 05:11 PM |
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The real problem would be their various stats, from azure to Gorynich it is a big hole...
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Era II mods and utilities
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 07:41 PM |
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Angelito, the resources could work for Castle and Faerie dragon too, as for Conflux and Azure dragon. Dungeon doesn't need a dragon, neither do the Rampart
Salamandre : you are right, I thought about it but didn't mentioned it because I still have no solution
If Siegfried doesn't fear OP mechanics, the Utopia could give 4 gorynyches a week while only one Azure/Rust/Crystal/Dracolich...
I guess this won't be implemented though
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 17, 2009 07:47 PM |
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The best solution would be to have 9 new creatures and spend time to balance them; either you replace the commanders with new creatures and disable their script for this mod (why not) either wait for 3.59. Testing will start shortly and I will ask if they think breaking the code. Let's hope.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 10:08 PM |
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Quote:
I would align the neutral dragons to the castle they "belong" to refering the extra resource they cost.
Rust dragon = sulfur = Dungeon
Crystal Dragon = crystal = Rampart
Faerie Dragon = gems = Tower
Azure Dragon = mercury = Inferno
Well, the crystal dragon fits to tower. Just remember this AB (or was it SoD?) campaign with that dragon slayer (don't remember the name). the crystal dragons where there created as a proper training for dragon slayers. So definitely they belong to tower.
The idea to link fairy dragons to confluxx is not bad. Nice idea.
Rust dragon to dungeon makes sense. But to stronghold as well. And since dungeon already has dragons...
The idea to link azure dragons to castle is, hmmm, how to say, not optimal. Graphically yes. But else?
The dracolich definitely belongs to necro. Nothing else would make sense.
So what else do we have? Gorynychs. Some kind of mixture between hudra and black dragon. Kind of chimera then. Not suitable for the "good" faction (castle, rampart, tower). Fortress already has the hydra. Dungeon has its dragon. So where to place the gorynych? Not to any of the "good" factions and not to inferno. Fortress would do, but they already have. Stronghold? Not that good. Fits nowhere really good.
Well, in the end i'd stick to rust dragons for stronghold. Azure dragons for castle may be an idea, although not really that satisfying. Fairy dragon for confluxx is o.k. Now what still is missing is inferno.
Couln't someone make some dracolish demon? Or some demonic dragon? Kind of "Bat from hell"?
BTW: What numbers are recruitable in any dwelling is always dependent on the general growth rate. So if f.ex. the grow rate for a hydra is 2, then you will be able to hire 2 hydras there per week. After taking the dragon utopia the standard growth rate will be increased, so you get more than 1 here as well as in other dwelling.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 17, 2009 10:15 PM |
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Quote:
If Siegfried doesn't fear OP mechanics, the Utopia could give 4 gorynyches a week while only one Azure/Rust/Crystal/Dracolich...
I guess this won't be implemented though
Well, as already mentioned: How many are recruitable always and automatically depends on the standard grow rate for this creature type. At least that is what i assume. I will have to check that. But f.ex. there is a script adding Boars to many dwellings. And as far as i recall they do have their own grow rate, independent of the standard creature hireable in that dwelling. This will be the same for the changed dragon utopia.
If i recall that correctly, the standard grow rate for black dragons is 1. And for hydras is 2? Balancing applies this way. But it is quite hard to really balance that. Already hard in standard game. Not easier here.
BTW: Tomorrow i'll have only some few hours time. So don't be surprised.
Edit: I changed the test map. Replaced Christian by Sorsha, removed all the scholars, added a university and scripted it to sell the most importand skills: Tactics, estates, scouting and eagle eye.
Still downloadable together with current development version of script at: http://www.rorkvell.de/h3/script99.zip
Edit 2: It seems that any dwelling selling more than 1 creature type does not add to the in-town grow rate of that creature. I'm not really sure about that, needs investigation.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 18, 2009 10:53 AM |
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- With my choices, I was not refering to the extra resources the PRESENT level 7 costs in each town, but what resources the silo gives in each town.
- In the dragon slayer campaign of AB, you have 4 scenarios where you fight EACH kind of neutral dragons. Not sure why crystal dragons then should belong more to Tower than one of the others.
- Rust dragons fit so well to Dungeon (imho), because it is just the picture you have in mind when you see them. I always see them lying in a cave, just the head is showing, and there is some kind of smoke coming out of their nose. This is why they perfectly fit into dungeon. (Edit: When I think of it, Stronghold isn't that bad either....hmmm)
- Azure dragons may fit to Castle due to their color maybe, but their speciality (fear) doesn't "allow" them to belong to a "good" faction in my eyes. Fear and good doesn't fit together.
- Faeries are a magical being. In my eyes, no town is more "magical" than Tower. Be it the number of spells available, be it they even have "magi" as troops, whatever. And they have strong relation to gems, so has Tower.
- Crystal dragons just fit perfectly to Rampart, because the whole town is (besides Stronghold) completely crystal related.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 18, 2009 11:35 AM |
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2009 12:50 PM |
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Great
Make it slightly smaller, and it could indeed ba a nice addition to castle.
BTW: I've taken your advice and studied the hctraits.txt and found some surprises. So i think i have to rework the bonus system. And i think i have to combine not 2 but 3 skills to activate the bonus to make a difference.
Here is a chart made out of 3 skills: Diplomacy (blue), leadership (ref) and estates (gold):
This makes some difference between the various classes. The resulting bonus should be some political bonus related to these 3 skills. In this case i thought of the easier joining neutral stacks of same alignment (and maybe to a lower degree to "nearly" aligned types). Again modified by speciality and first skills. Would this idea be appropriate?
And then, what other combinations would be nice? I think there would be several political bonus types all related to estates or diplomacy. Estates is about owning the land, beeing some lord of that land. And diplomacy, well, self-describing. So one political bonus type i could imagine would be estates, scouting and eagle eye: "Finding" some type of aligned creature, as long as the hero walks outside of the town.Other ideas?
O.k., then until tomorrow
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2009 01:19 PM |
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Quote:
- In the dragon slayer campaign of AB, you have 4 scenarios where you fight EACH kind of neutral dragons. Not sure why crystal dragons then should belong more to Tower than one of the others.
Because of the story
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- Rust dragons fit so well to Dungeon (imho), because it is just the picture you have in mind when you see them. I always see them lying in a cave, just the head is showing, and there is some kind of smoke coming out of their nose. This is why they perfectly fit into dungeon. (Edit: When I think of it, Stronghold isn't that bad either....hmmm)
Full ACK. But dungeon already has its dragons.
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- Azure dragons may fit to Castle due to their color maybe, but their speciality (fear) doesn't "allow" them to belong to a "good" faction in my eyes. Fear and good doesn't fit together.
I agree! This does indeed not fit at all to any "good" faction.
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- Faeries are a magical being. In my eyes, no town is more "magical" than Tower. Be it the number of spells available, be it they even have "magi" as troops, whatever. And they have strong relation to gems, so has Tower.
Well, yes. But they would fit to the elementals as well. Problem: Both would need a dragon.
Quote:
- Crystal dragons just fit perfectly to Rampart, because the whole town is (besides Stronghold) completely crystal related.
Yes, but a) they already have dragon and b) because of the dragon slayer story they fit to tower
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Paulemile
Known Hero
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posted November 18, 2009 02:07 PM |
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Azure dragons would fit to tower too, since they live in Fronzen Cliffs. We can find a lot of versions, I think we have to let Siegfried choose now
Siegfried : concerning your political synergies. you find way more ideas, not only political.
For example : water magic, sorcery, intelligence. Increases water spells effectiveness even more... I just wrote it without working on finding real good ideas. But the possibilities are awesome.
If you prefer to stick on the political way, I'll try to find some ideas later.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 18, 2009 03:56 PM |
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Quote:
Azure dragons would fit to tower too, since they live in Fronzen Cliffs. We can find a lot of versions, I think we have to let Siegfried choose now
Siegfried : concerning your political synergies. you find way more ideas, not only political.
For example : water magic, sorcery, intelligence. Increases water spells effectiveness even more... I just wrote it without working on finding real good ideas. But the possibilities are awesome.
If you prefer to stick on the political way, I'll try to find some ideas later.
This idea is related to magic school specialists. And i have similar plans. Anx with exactly that result: Increase watermagic spells. And after battle create special terrain patch. And on start of battle apply a spell. Ideas like that.
Although for castle i thought of combining water magic with scholar and intelligence. The combination with sorcery fits better to tower, inferno and dungeon. And then maybe not intelligence but mysthicism. Something like that.
It's just that i'd like to start with the political path. Then the offensive and devensive combat path, then something with archery, then some combinations with luck and resistance. Then at the end these magical combos.
Just 1 step after the other. But collecting ideas is never wrong.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted November 18, 2009 06:05 PM |
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Siegfried,
when your script reaches beta, could you please make something like this? It doesn't have to be Flash-based, a simple pic would do. By the way, there are lots of neat ideas there, but you have probably played H5 yourself. The skills and abilities are way better than H3 stuff.
Anyway, keep up the great work! 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 18, 2009 07:32 PM |
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Siegried, the amount of work you put in this is incredible. The script is very professional and will make the joy of endless players I am sure.
Just one minor detail if you don't mind:
You can safely remove !!FU:E; from ALL your script and events, everywhere:). When the function ends, it ends. FU:E is useless. There are some situations where the function should end with a command, but there is no such situation in all your script (except the normal command to end a function if not required conditions are present). I am sure you already noticed this but kept an habit to put it (example in the pic from your map-->extreme usage).
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Era II mods and utilities
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 19, 2009 09:23 AM |
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Quote:
Siegfried,
when your script reaches beta, could you please make something like this?
A skill weel? Hmmm, i don't think that this would fit here. But there will be a tutorial. I'm already doing a testmap as kind of tutorial. It will be expanded to a full campaign, so you can optimally find the way you personally prefere.
Quote:
It doesn't have to be Flash-based, a simple pic would do. By the way, there are lots of neat ideas there, but you have probably played H5 yourself. The skills and abilities are way better than H3 stuff.
Yes, that's true. The skill system in H5 is indeed great. And it is not possible to do that in H3. But maybe with these combos it's possible to setup something similar. Not really the same, not that good, but at least the basic idea.
Quote:
Anyway, keep up the great work!
Sure!
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Currently i'm doing a thorough analysis of the hctraits.txt (the skill probability table).
Edit: Oops, finding triplets is that much work, i won't get ready in years. So it seems to be better to stick to pairs 
So for knight there are these intersting pairs:
Class 1 (highest probability):
Navigation/Leadership
Leadership/Ballistics
Class 2 (high probability):
Leadership/Tactics
Leadership/Offense
Class 3 (significant probability):
Navigation/Ballistics
Leadership/Estates (this is what i've found and put as politics)
Class 4 (sufficient probability):
Archery/Leadership
Logistics/Leadership
Leadership/Artillery
Leadership/Armorer
So class 1 and 2 should be typically knight, class 3 typically castle. Class 4 can be skipped for now.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted November 19, 2009 09:28 AM |
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Siegried, the amount of work you put in this is incredible. The script is very professional and will make the joy of endless players I am sure.
I hope so. And thanks :)
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You can safely remove !!FU:E; from ALL your script and events, everywhere:). When the function ends, it ends. FU:E is useless. There are some situations where the function should end with a command, but there is no such situation in all your script (except the normal command to end a function if not required conditions are present). I am sure you already noticed this but kept an habit to put it (example in the pic from your map-->extreme usage).
Yes. O.k., in the internal "script" which just sets up the university i really could remove it. But in the external script it is a good habit.
Sometimes i want to disable a complete function for testing/debugging/... So i simply comment out the function header (!?FU...). Now the remainder of that function syntactically belongs to the previous function. To avoid that this is accidentially executed as part of the previous function i add an FU:E at the end of every function. This alrady proved to be a good idea several times.
Although you're right, for a working script this would be unnecessary, since the function is defined to end at the start of the next function or trigger (functions are just a special type of trigger).
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