|
| Thread: How to learn from saves efficiently? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
posted November 13, 2009 01:34 PM |
|
|
Look Liophy, when I talk veterans I talk 1999-2004, before everyone is going crazy for closed maps or templates. So your statement about players being more skilled today is true, but applied to templates only.
ToH formers disliked closed maps and enjoyed intense early game. ToH formers could adapt also to templates, example Antal, Frank and many others but eventually they gave up as the game was for them less interesting and more predictable. The main problem is that you keeping saying that veterans could learn to play templates but you exclude actual players going back to fixed maps. Your thoughts about fixed maps are exactly the same thoughts formers have about templates.
I also like the game offering various challenges, so a closed map or a template is welcome. But when we talk about ONLY playing templates, something is cringing in my head. You just can't say that people who played fixed maps for 8 years (HoMM2 and early HoMM3) were noobs or not hardcore players. It takes a lot of skill to win a game when all odds are against you. Some of them played more than 2000 games in 6 years and you are all far from that. Being the last lurker from formers here, it feels that my opinion is isolated, but I know tens of great people who would cut in pieces all your arguments if they dared to drop here.
To each one his taste, but stop telling me or others what is GOOD in general. It is good for YOU and your fellows. I can enjoy it too, but when become the unique way, no thanks.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Protos
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 01:42 PM |
|
|
|
Btw, do you know anything about a guy going around playing the Heroes? He's someone you'd remember. Instead of talking, he plays. And when he better play, he talks.
|
|
hobowu
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 01:48 PM |
|
|
@sal, no point trying to argue a point here =)
narrow mindedness doesn't help them see in more perspectives than their own.
|
|
fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 01:49 PM |
|
Edited by fank0 at 13:50, 13 Nov 2009.
|
I am left speechless at your (Andi,Sal, hobowu) arrogance.
I am done with you, as you obviously cannot be reasoned with.
We, today laughable wannabies wish you well and go to hell 
____________
And you believed that?
|
|
hobowu
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 02:01 PM |
|
Edited by hobowu at 14:04, 13 Nov 2009.
|
If you're talking about arrogance, please don't group me in with you. You seem to be the one proclaiming that he plays well and is highly skilled...
back on topic: anyone have saves of tower being played decently?
|
|
fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 02:06 PM |
|
|
Calling people "narrowminded" doesn't exactly make them like you, you know. And is just a bit too arrogant thing to say.
____________
And you believed that?
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 02:17 PM |
|
|
Hobowu there are two saved archives with tower at WCL (click "The great hall")
XSI and Bayazet
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 03:21 PM |
|
|
Andi, if you sit in Gamespy or Gameranger under unknown name and do not mention any information, then it's obvious that experienced players will avoid you. BTW Gameranger is much more active these days than Gamespy.
If you interested in game, come at GR during weekends at 10.30-11.30am Moscow time. I play almost any template.
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 05:43 PM |
bonus applied by angelito on 13 Nov 2009. |
Edited by maretti at 18:14, 13 Nov 2009.
|
When I started playing online in 2004 I had been playing heroes for severel years and thousands of hours. Still my knowledge about the game was very limited. I believed Solmyr was the strongest hero in the game and didnt even know there was a diffrence in primary and secondary skilldevelopement between the diffrent classes and I allways played with no rules. Needless to say I got wiser.
Still I managed to win many games but also lost heavily when I played some of the stronger players. I got advise from some of the better players, read about tactics on HC and looked at saves and after 3-4 months I beat Frank (who was considered one of the best players) for the first time. In all I played him 10 times and won the 9. In 2005 I was the number 1 ranked in TOH. Since then I have improved my game and there is still plenty of room for improvement. So I would also say the standard is higher now than then. But if you have some talent for the game and dont think you know it all but are willing to learn, you can learn and ajust to the current standart very quickly and be able to compete with anyone.
The main diffrence in my game from then to now is:
1. When I started playing most of the nessesary rules were used, but you were allowed to upgrade angels from cons. This ment that allmost everyone played castle (if they didnt play ramp with Ivor). That ment that people wernt very good with all the other towns cause they were simply not used to playing them. Today I play random towns in most of my games, so I know all towns very well.
2. Choosing the right hero is essential. With the great work that has been done conserning the skilling system from especially Dimis I have all the knowledge I need, to choose the best hero for any given situation. To me it seems though, that most of the better players today still have a lot to learn here. When they bann the log specs thats a clear indication. In the good old days heroes like Pyre and Tyris were very popular.
3. Beeing pushed makes you improve. Jebus is often critized (mostly by people who hasnt experince playing it) but theres no doubt it has improved peoples awearness of speed and that its often a good idea to leave usefull stuff behind or use scouts to take it because its so essential to break early. This gaming style can also be used on other temps. Just 1,5 to 2 years ago I was happy to break 127 or 131. But after I messed up things in that tourney against the russians I have played many games especially against Protos and Niki on jebus. And they both constantly broke 124 or 125 which forced me to do at least the same. So today a 126 break feels very slow.
4. Knowing the temp you play very well is very important. This comes with experience, if you choose to think a little deeper about the build up. Many players dont. Knowing the temp is important for 2 resons, its important to know where you should go at what time and when you risk running into your opponent and if you pick towns and heroes its important to know what works on that template and what dosent, cause the game doesnt start day 1, it starts when you pick towns and heroes. My template knowledge is clearly better now that it was then.
5. Main battle strategy. You may play online for 100 hours and only be in 2 close main battles where you learn something. So it can really take alot of time before you master this discipline. Over the years Ive realised a few tricks that makes me better. Just to mention one thing: Its often a good idea to sacrifice a fast stack by attacking right away in order to weaken your opponents shooters and thereby force him to come to you instead of you being forced to come to him. Playing the arena maps from WCL wont help you much here. They are simply to far away from a realistic gaming situation.
6. Rainalkars manuel. This great manuel can be usefull during a game. Its not long time ago where it was pretty random in which town I built my mage guild. Now I check which towns have the best chance of giving the spells I want. I often check the exact skilling chances here when I have to decide who I should pick for main or how I should level up. Another thing I learned from the manuel is how to handle a fast blinded unit. Wait with all your units (also the balista if you control it), then the blinded unit will move last and not first.
@Salamandre: The reson why people played fixed maps in the beginning of online history was probably because the original random templates were so bad. As soon as the good random templates were developed the vast majority of players prefered to play them. When I started playing online in 2004 allmost everyone played closed randoms allready. I see 2 resons why:
1. Exploring the map is a great part of the game. Its simply exciting to reveal the map. Every time you find something usefull it gives you a nice feeling. This part of the game is much more limited on fixed maps.
2. People prefer to have the main battle when they feel ready for it. Heroes is very much about getting order from caos. It gives some kind of satisfaction. Everything leads up to the time where you have bought out and upgraded your amry, your main hero is well developed and has 1 or 2 exp magic skills, in other words you are ready to fight. Its simply dissatisfactory to go into main battle with half your army, noneupgraded and with your magic skills at advanced level.
So feel free to continue talking about the game style you prefer. Just be awear that the vast majority of players is not the least interested.
@Casihasi: Being a chessmaster dosent mean you will be a good H3 player. Its 2 very diffrent games. The guy who introduced me to H3 was a chessmaster too but a terrible H3 player.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:24 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So feel free to continue talking about the game style you prefer. Just be awear that the vast majority of players is not the least interested.
Are you aware you could be catch be this sooner than you think?
Example:
TE adds a lot of tweaks to the game. More and more players are attracted by it, and more players will have, more it will have to listen to their wishes and modify itself.
ATM you refuse to move to TE because you like the game as you play it, on regular templates. With TE growing day by day it is obvious that you will find less and less players over time to play standard. One day you will be the last one to ask a game on regular and everyone will laugh to you because "now TE is da way!" And then I will rewrite you the phrase I quoted.
Thats how it works. Heroes was never static and will never be. TE will certainly become the unique way, then heros on rockets, then monsters on trees, bulgarians on Ferraris etc etc
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
SAG
Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:25 PM |
|
|
good post, Maretti 
btw I often see following evolution : chessmaster -> homm3 player -> poker player
____________
I play HoMM3 at www.heroes-
III.com
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:30 PM |
|
|
Had to give a +QP to maretti here.
Look and learn how to argue without getting personal!
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:31 PM |
|
|
BTw...I still remember my first game against maretti in 2004. I guess it was one of his first 15 games....and it happened on Jebus 
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:37 PM |
|
|
TE will certainly become the unique way, then heros on rockets, then monsters on trees, bulgarians on Ferraris etc etc
This is actually quite funny, just not in the way it was meant to be.
____________
And you believed that?
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 13, 2009 07:45 PM |
|
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 14, 2009 01:03 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
So feel free to continue talking about the game style you prefer. Just be awear that the vast majority of players is not the least interested.
Are you aware you could be catch be this sooner than you think?
Yes im perfectly aware of that. Thats also why im still annoyed about messing up that tourney against the russians, cause I feel I may have had a chance to get a bit of influence if I had done better. I still hope they will make a very light version with the obvious improvements and more or less everything else optional.
So far I dont have a problem getting games though. Even the TE lovers (except Liophy) are willing to play me on SOD. And I hear from many diffrent players that they arnt exactly thrilled about many of the changes. I just hope as many people as possible feel the way I do. Otherwise ill have to adapt or stop playing. Its as simple as that.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
|
|
posted November 14, 2009 08:50 AM |
|
|
good set of posts Fooster!
Enjoyed reading some pertinent opinions
____________
|
|
sachelos
Known Hero
|
|
posted November 18, 2009 09:02 PM |
|
|
:good:
Nice posts Maretti, enjoyed reading them and very happy you found some time to write some things down, you rarely do
Keep up the good work foo
|
|
maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted November 18, 2009 10:46 PM |
|
|
"BTw...I still remember my first game against maretti in 2004. I guess it was one of his first 15 games....and it happened on Jebus "
I guess I lost that one. As I recall I had Christian as main. Noobs like balista heroes.
"Nice posts Maretti, enjoyed reading them and very happy you found some time to write some things down, you rarely do."
Thank you. I would probably write more posts if some of the other WCL players would participate now and then. I find it a bit strange that you tell me I rarely write anything when im the WCL player who by far has contributed the most to this forum. Why dont you post something yourself if time allows it?
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted November 18, 2009 11:29 PM |
|
|
Hello... let it not be "by far"
|
|
|
|
