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JollyJoker
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posted November 23, 2009 09:52 AM |
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Except he's not. It's takes 5 seconds to say, "Hey kids, use a condom, you won't get pregnant that way." It takes a lot longer to teach them discipline and honour.
And you think, discipline and honour comes with fatigues, auto-rifles and playing hide-and-seek in the woods?
It takes 5 seconds to say, "Hey kids, always leave the safety on, that way you don't shoot someone accidentally." It takes a lot longer to teach them honesty and loyalty.
So I've not the slightest idea what your point is, Mv.
Dimis, a simple thanks. 
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mvassilev
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posted November 23, 2009 04:28 PM |
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And you think, discipline and honour comes with fatigues, auto-rifles and playing hide-and-seek in the woods?
They also learn survival skills. As has been stated earlier, it's like Boy Scouts with weapons training - that's all.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 23, 2009 04:52 PM |
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Apart from the fact that you are moving in circles - besides, if I read that
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They also learn survival skills. As has been stated earlier, it's like Boy Scouts with weapons training - that's all.
1) Define "survival skill": what exactly do they learn that is valuable for survival in our society?
2) Why do you say it's like Boy Scouts with weapons training - that's all?
I mean, up to how many years? 8? Boy Scouts with weapons training, that's all? I'd agree for something like a three-weeks holiday boot-camp. But 8 years?
Besides, what's being in a ghetto gang but playing boy scouts with a little weapon training? And don't they learn "survival skills" there as well?
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2009 01:21 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 01:23, 25 Nov 2009.
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But I'm right, am I? You are a sexophobe
phobia means you have a FEAR of something. Unless you don't know what it means, no I am NOT a sexophobe. In fact, I can't even believe someone would make a comparison here between a sex-vs-guns schools (ok you know what I mean) until I read this thread.
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and it's obvious that your view of reality is twisted.
Explain. What is twisted, that I can see something from a neutral viewpoint?
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What's more, it's easy to see: Think about the PAIN humans will suffer their whole life through, suffering when either beloved persons suffer or even die, and when they themselves suffer. Why should the rational mind be forced to stand thaat, but shy away from the flipside of the coin, enjoying the pleasure life can bring? That would be irrational, because it makes no sense at all.
Because you ignore my points, my stance and everything I say, or misinterpret it. That is not pain, it's depression.
Depression is the "opposite" of happiness, pain is the "opposite" of pleasure. Cut yourself and you receive pain. It takes something else to be depressed. And in MOST cases depressed people actually have no pain whatsoever! It is no surprise that people with depression suicide, when they have the least pain compared to someone less fortunate who is struggling to live. The former is much more MENTALLY capable, in both a good and a bad way (obviously suicide ain't a good thing).
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It's the other way round: YOU must show ME which fine skills the YM school teaches that the others don't and how those are important or why they can't be taughtg in a normal school.
Ok I admit I have no idea how the marines school is (never been in one, certainly not a US one), but here's based on my assumptions from this "concept":
Skills:
- how to aim, improves reflexes and eye-hand coordination. (video games help here to some extent as well)
- how to use a gun, can come in handy, or if they pursue a career needing proper usage of firearms (soldier/police/etc) they will be better skilled (practice makes perfect, the younger the better)
- how to DEFEND yourself from guns (taking cover, stuff like that)
- how to conserve ammunition and use it properly; this is a psychological thing among others (video games help here as well) how to appreciate what you have more
- how to disable someone to the ground, if the school teachers basic marine martial arts.
- improves physical fitness (no doubt)
- it probably has some scouts-skills as well so they'll learn basic survival skills too
- coordinate and improve one's reflexes and increase their awareness
- how to share and conserve food (limited supply) and other stuff. is actually useful even in society if there is no limited supply, makes them appreciate things more.
- etc...
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Typical Death. No, it's NOT like this. You make that up. It's just an unfounded claim, an assumption based on nothing but Death logic, wishful thinking, reality twisting.
If mine is an unfounded claim, then what you said in this quote is...?
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See, Death, once you simply don't accept the host of unfounded assumptions all your posts are based upon, there is just nothing left anymore, that's the problem. It hasn't got anything to do with an inability to be civilized, but with YOUR inability not to invent stuff and base conslusions on them.
Yet you never addressed them, where are the assumptions for instance, where is wrong, so I can explain or I can know what you are talking about.
But the way you lead this makes it look uncivilized. And obviously I can't respond to your claims because that's like replying to "you're wrong" and that's that. I would only repeat myself since you don't address where I am wrong -- so I know what to talk about.
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titaniumalloy
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posted November 25, 2009 01:27 AM |
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Explain. What is twisted, that I can see something from a neutral viewpoint?
That would be very twisted if you could do that 
Of course no one can see from a neutral viewpoint.
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baklava
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posted November 25, 2009 01:33 AM |
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What is twisted, that I can see something from a neutral neutered viewpoint?
Fixed
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2009 01:34 AM |
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That would be very twisted if you could do that
Of course no one can see from a neutral viewpoint.
Yes you can -- it's not that hard. I'm not saying my opinion is neutral at all, I'm saying that you can analyze something from a neutral viewpoint, doesn't mean you have to be that way or agree with it.
For instance, I do not agree with the military school concept, not in the way it is, especially if it deals with brainwashing (which probably doesn't, as some more familiar with it have said). But that doesn't change the "neutral" fact that, at least, people coming out of there have more skills than a "worthless" school like young lovers.
People say I'm playing Devil's Advocate when I do that, but in truth I'm just seeing it from neutral perspective and apply some conclusions to it. Why do people think that if you post something you must agree with it?
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JollyJoker
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posted November 25, 2009 08:14 AM |
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Quote:
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What's more, it's easy to see: Think about the PAIN humans will suffer their whole life through, suffering when either beloved persons suffer or even die, and when they themselves suffer. Why should the rational mind be forced to stand thaat, but shy away from the flipside of the coin, enjoying the pleasure life can bring? That would be irrational, because it makes no sense at all.
Because you ignore my points, my stance and everything I say, or misinterpret it. That is not pain, it's depression.
Depression is the "opposite" of happiness, pain is the "opposite" of pleasure. Cut yourself and you receive pain. It takes something else to be depressed. And in MOST cases depressed people actually have no pain whatsoever! It is no surprise that people with depression suicide, when they have the least pain compared to someone less fortunate who is struggling to live. The former is much more MENTALLY capable, in both a good and a bad way (obviously suicide ain't a good thing).
It doesn't change the point, and you are not addressing it. You do suffer a lot of pain, involuntary, in life, so why would you avoid pleasure?
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It's the other way round: YOU must show ME which fine skills the YM school teaches that the others don't and how those are important or why they can't be taughtg in a normal school.
Ok I admit I have no idea how the marines school is (never been in one, certainly not a US one), but here's based on my assumptions from this "concept":
There we go again. Assume what you want,. but don't expect people to discuss the conclusions based on your assumptions.
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Typical Death. No, it's NOT like this. You make that up. It's just an unfounded claim, an assumption based on nothing but Death logic, wishful thinking, reality twisting.
If mine is an unfounded claim, then what you said in this quote is...?
founded because it's based on what you write.
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See, Death, once you simply don't accept the host of unfounded assumptions all your posts are based upon, there is just nothing left anymore, that's the problem. It hasn't got anything to do with an inability to be civilized, but with YOUR inability not to invent stuff and base conslusions on them.
Yet you never addressed them, where are the assumptions for instance, where is wrong, so I can explain or I can know what you are talking about.
Death, please, for sanity's sake, you start making 4-way "tables" like bad marine school effect - killer; bad lovers school rapist, and want to base a discussion on that nonsense? Come on.
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TheDeath
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posted November 25, 2009 11:45 PM |
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It doesn't change the point, and you are not addressing it. You do suffer a lot of pain, involuntary, in life, so why would you avoid pleasure?
Because you are not primitive -- happiness, that is a mental state, is much more adequate for having a positive mood.
And btw, pain is as worthless (and primitive) as pleasure -- don't take me wrong, it is only good sometimes for signals (i.e knowing when you are hurt) but in most cases it serves no purpose other than to suffer so you can "instinctively" try to avoid that situation again. But that only applies if you are not capable of reasoning yourself to avoid that situation.
(say, if you are under surgery, pain is really a pain in the ass (no pun intended), as in most other situations, it's simply not "useful" for species like us -- this is a classic scenario of "the body is stupid and thinks you are hurt, but you know, by reason, that surgery is good for you" for instance)
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There we go again. Assume what you want,. but don't expect people to discuss the conclusions based on your assumptions.
Sorry but you brought this up, and you have assumptions as well. My only assumptions were based on what a marine school would be like -- I haven't been in one, and I bet you haven't been either, so you have no more valid points than me, if you want to go that route.
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founded because it's based on what you write.
Yes it's based on what I write, but your conclusion is drawn from your own opinion about its interpretation, and nothing else. So unless all opinions are "founded" (which nullifies the whole purpose) then no
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Death, please, for sanity's sake, you start making 4-way "tables" like bad marine school effect - killer; bad lovers school rapist, and want to base a discussion on that nonsense? Come on.
What do you mean by "4-way tables", that was only a list by taking different cases and looking at outcomes. 
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Azagal
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posted November 25, 2009 11:48 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
What is twisted, that I can see something from a neutral neutered viewpoint?
Fixed
You have a divine eye for stuff like that. Really man .
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2009 12:00 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What is twisted, that I can see something from a neutral neutered viewpoint?
Fixed
You have a divine eye for stuff like that. Really man.
Ironically, it is the neutral viewpoint. Between a sexophobe (one who is afraid of it) and a rapist (the two extremes), the one who looks at it from objective perspective is neutral (by analyzing, not by experiencing, because "hallucinations" are experiences as well... hope you don't deny a video camera is more objective right?).
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JollyJoker
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posted November 26, 2009 08:31 AM |
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Quote:
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It doesn't change the point, and you are not addressing it. You do suffer a lot of pain, involuntary, in life, so why would you avoid pleasure?
Because you are not primitive -- happiness, that is a mental state, is much more adequate for having a positive mood.
And btw, pain is as worthless (and primitive) as pleasure -- don't take me wrong, it is only good sometimes for signals (i.e knowing when you are hurt) but in most cases it serves no purpose other than to suffer so you can "instinctively" try to avoid that situation again. But that only applies if you are not capable of reasoning yourself to avoid that situation.
(say, if you are under surgery, pain is really a pain in the ass (no pun intended), as in most other situations, it's simply not "useful" for species like us -- this is a classic scenario of "the body is stupid and thinks you are hurt, but you know, by reason, that surgery is good for you" for instance)
I'm not delving into that one again, but we ARE primitive. Our body IS primitive, and our mind is, whether you like that or not, limked with it. It's a team, and as I had said before, just as the mind will react on what the body does or suffers, the body has to suffer from the mind. Sloth, for example, is suffering of the body due to laziness of MIND.
So I just don't see a point - you CANNOT avoid pain, when you get sick for example - so why avoid pleasure?
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There we go again. Assume what you want,. but don't expect people to discuss the conclusions based on your assumptions.
Sorry but you brought this up, and you have assumptions as well. My only assumptions were based on what a marine school would be like -- I haven't been in one, and I bet you haven't been either, so you have no more valid points than me, if you want to go that route.
I don't need assumptions - remember, I was just asking whether a certain justification wouldn't be valid for all dangerous things, so that we might have the respectives schools as well and why weapons would be something special. There are no assumptions there.
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founded because it's based on what you write.
Yes it's based on what I write, but your conclusion is drawn from your own opinion about its interpretation, and nothing else. So unless all opinions are "founded" (which nullifies the whole purpose) then no
Sure. It's based on my interpretation or understanding, which seems to differ from yours. Still, assumptions are assumptions, and before you can discuss the conclusions you must agree about the assumptions, and I don't agree with your assumptions, because they are pretty random.
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Death, please, for sanity's sake, you start making 4-way "tables" like bad marine school effect - killer; bad lovers school rapist, and want to base a discussion on that nonsense? Come on.
What do you mean by "4-way tables", that was only a list by taking different cases and looking at outcomes.
Exactly. Four unspecific, random, useless, wrong, irrelevant, silly, stupid cases. Discuss based on that? Please.
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2009 06:10 PM |
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I'm not delving into that one again, but we ARE primitive. Our body IS primitive, and our mind is, whether you like that or not, limked with it. It's a team, and as I had said before, just as the mind will react on what the body does or suffers, the body has to suffer from the mind. Sloth, for example, is suffering of the body due to laziness of MIND.
Saying that "we are primitive" is saying "I give up but I don't acknowledge that". Tell you what, if you look at things, an 1960s computer is pretty "primitive" or "ancient", but we didn't get to quad cores by saying "CPUs ARE primitive, deal with it". Quote:
So I just don't see a point - you CANNOT avoid pain, when you get sick for example - so why avoid pleasure?
I'm going to quote myself from now on because you seem to have the inability to read properly.
here with emphasis:Quote:
Because you are not primitive -- happiness, that is a mental state, is much more adequate for having a positive mood.
If you make no effort, then OF COURSE you aren't going to improve. I mean, it's like learning. If you make no effort to learn of course you're gonna remain illiterate. Saying "we ARE illiterate when born" is ridiculous as you can see.
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I don't need assumptions - remember, I was just asking whether a certain justification wouldn't be valid for all dangerous things, so that we might have the respectives schools as well and why weapons would be something special. There are no assumptions there.
But you assume marine school is dangerous.
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Exactly. Four unspecific, random, useless, wrong, irrelevant, silly, stupid cases. Discuss based on that? Please.
They are very specific. Do I have to get lengthy on it?
Case 1: Marine kid turns criminal in 10 years. Outcome: Bad.
Case 2: Lover kid turns rapist in 10 years. Outcome: Bad.
Case 3: Marine kid turns "normal" in 10 years. Outcome: OK.
Case 4: Lover kid turns "normal" in 10 years. Outcome: Worthless.
Does it really take a genius to figure out the conclusions? Really?
(as to "why" I conclude the worthless outcome, that's outlined in my posts of course -- this wasn't mean to be a description but an analyzation of the cases).
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JollyJoker
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posted November 26, 2009 08:06 PM |
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Death, let me say it this way.
For someone like you, who makes such a fuss about the mind and its abilities and merits as opposed to everything connected to the body, your posts should be as such somewhat of a proof of your point. Instead especially this last post shows a remarkable lack of everything that would support this idea.
You might get the idea that it's something of a tactic - make incoherent, sloppy, illogical posts that say nothing, claim things that are just untrue - never did I say that the school was dangerous, for example, since I didn't want that discussion... whatever.
I'm not going to answer this "post". Some things are just too silly.
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2009 08:16 PM |
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Was that a childish and elaborate attempt at an insult? Anything else to say? Like how maybe I have a hole in my head?
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JollyJoker
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posted November 26, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Sadly, you are insulting yourself with your posts. The trouble is, you are not realizing it.
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TheDeath
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posted November 26, 2009 08:23 PM |
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Sadly, you are insulting yourself with your posts. The trouble is, you are not realizing it.
Sadly, you are insulting yourself with your posts. The trouble is, you are not realizing it.
mirror is cool bro!
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The_Gootch
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posted December 03, 2009 08:07 PM |
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blizzardboy
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posted December 22, 2009 02:28 AM |
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Child Soldiers are a thing of the past. This is how real kids roll:
http://www.nsa.gov/kids/index.htm
Child NSA Agents.
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TheDeath
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posted December 22, 2009 02:48 AM |
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That site is very good for kids...
...because it has no math!
If they used actual powerful ciphers and encryption used in computers as examples it would scare them because of all the math involved. (you know, I actually don't get the math either).
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