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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Miss of the world - wtf?
Thread: Miss of the world - wtf? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 02:46 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:48, 24 Nov 2009.

Bad reasoning.

I take as much "fault" in the situation as the victim of a streetfight, soccerkicked to the head by 10 thugs because they didn't like his haircut.

Their argument is that his haircut provoked them.

Your argument is that my (men in general) wishes provoke women to plastify themselves (lol nice wordmaking)

Both are WEAK. Women have will of their own and if they can't resist provocation, it's THEIR problem and THEY have to face the consequences, also ridiculment.



I won't accept any collective guilt.

Oh, and you're a knight in shining armor again, Keksi. Ready to defend the "poor helpless women" against us bad sexist males.
How about defending them from their own bad logic, first?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 24, 2009 02:50 PM

I can't remember when I've last agreed so whole-heartedly and completely with a post, Keksi!
I have nothing to add, except

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william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted November 24, 2009 02:52 PM

Agreed, great post Keksi.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 02:53 PM

What's so good in his post, JJ? Will?

That men should be ashamed because they don't like plastic surgeries and express it?

Because "their behavior" caused the surgery in the first place?

Seriously, I don't understand.

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william
william


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Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted November 24, 2009 03:07 PM

It's a good post because it's exactly what I'd say as well. I agreed with the post.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
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Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 03:09 PM

You still didn't say why do you agree.

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william
william


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LummoxLewis
posted November 24, 2009 03:11 PM

I agree because it's what I would have said as well. I just said that. I don't have to explain myself further to you. I just felt like saying that what Keksi said is what I agree with. That's all there is to it. lol
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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posted November 24, 2009 03:14 PM

But what would you have said? (umm, that doesn't sound right grammar-wise... )

Just express it. Like, "implants don't make those women ugly" or "men are the cause of this and thus they should shut up" or "we shouldn't judge her based on pictures"... Keksi made some points, I'm not sure which of those you find same as yours.

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william
william


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LummoxLewis
posted November 24, 2009 03:15 PM

Not exactly what he said but something that would have produced the same points, and I agree with everything he said.
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~

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Keksimaton
Keksimaton


Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
posted November 24, 2009 03:27 PM

Quote:
That men should be ashamed because they don't like plastic surgeries and express it?
It's not about liking or not liking the surgery. It was not my point. I don't like it either. To paraphrase Jesus: "Hate the plastic surgery, love the patient." No need to hate the surgery either, really.

Quote:
Because "their behavior" caused the surgery in the first place?
It's a strong cultural pressure, not necessarily just men or just you. I wouldn't say it's inherently bad to like curves either.
____________
Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted November 24, 2009 03:31 PM

Everyone is trying to adjust their looks in some way. Go to a hairdresser; tattoos; piercings; clothing; shaving various areas of skin in face and body, eye,brow plucking, perfume, cologne, deo, jewelry; body-building. Plastic surgery - when done voluntarily - is going just one step farther. You may correct a twisted nose, marks, scars - and breasts.
It's well-known that many women with very small breasts suffer - much the same way than men with a very small penis. They simply feel much better, and the bottom of it is that most men like it better as well. What is considered "small" varies, obviously.
Another thing is, that this is an industry, and "it looks and feels like the real thing" - which is what the industry advertises - is quite reassuring.

Now, obviously, the more painful, involving and risky a process is, the more desperate someone has to be to undergo it, wouldn't you agree? The pressure to be within the range of what is considered beautiful or at least pretty has increased dramatically due to the fact that "public faces" are becoming more and more artificial (software-adjusted), so that everyone is looking oh so beautiful in mags and movies. Moreover youth and beauty are of course valued and often make the difference whether someone will become rich and famous, have first pick in partners or has to be content with what is left.
In short, beauty is like every other commodity: a question of supply and demand.

Now, YOU say, I want a NATURAL beauty. First thing to see is, there is no natural beauty in that sense - she can do whatever makeup, shaving plucking and whatnot job, but no surgery. That's quite random a line you draw there. Second thing is, you can say, well, for me I just don't want it. But where's the difference in saying: no tattoos; no cheap outfit; no groos make-up, no intimate peircings, no this no that?
And you wouldn't look down on those with a tattoo, or whatever.

So you may prefer what you prefer, but it's no reason to look down on women (or men) who undergo certain procedures to better their general chances, while accepting others procedures. The line you draw is pretty random.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 24, 2009 03:38 PM

I think what Keksi was saying is that many men set unreasonable standards for beauty, and then the same men cry foul when the women cheat in order to live up to them.  
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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wog_edn
wog_edn

Promising

The Nothingness
posted November 24, 2009 03:46 PM

Well, I would be called a piece of plastic if I got silicone to make my chest, abs, arms, etc.. look bigger if women are allowed to do it, so am I!!
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 03:48 PM

I see I have elaborate. This is not a counterpost - it's my general point of view.

Why do we even judge her

The girl we're talking about entered a beauty contest by her own free will. A contest that is BASED on being judged by a group of people, and I guess most of them are males, if not all (don't really know). If she agrees on that and the world agrees on her face and body being analysed by strangers, what is wrong with me doing the same here?

Because I'm not a contest judge? And is being one mean higher asthetical sense? Is there ANY reason to say the man who is watching her as judge has any more right to say she's beautiful than I am? Why no. Why would he? Beauty IS relative and it IS subjective. She is chosen miss because judges liked her. They are not any better to judge than me or you Will, though - THEIR aesthetics aren't better than ours because absolute beauty doesn't exist.

In other words, if she ASKS for it, she gets it. What's wrong then?

But you demean her!

No. I just express why I would never give her the title. loudly. The judges also know why did they put girl X on last place - mostly because of something flawed - SUBJECTIVELY - about her looks, style - just don't express it loudly. Do they demean her by thinking she has flaws? Well, you can of course think they do - I don't.

Do I demean her then by thinking that this particular girl has flaws and EXPRESSING it?

I don't think so. I'd demean her if I said she's a **** or whatever. By saying I don't like her false tits, I am not demeaning her, because she joined a contest that's based on males looking at her tits and judging whether she's prettier than other girls in the contest or not. Again, she asked to be judged by entering it.

I don't think I should be ashamed that I don't like a praticular feature, too. If you don't like blond hair Keksi, for example,is expressing it demeaning to girls who are blond? Is saying blond is UGLY demeaning? False tits are ugly to me. I never sit on my butt and decided "I know, I'll hate blue color, italian cars and false tits. And Xerox". It just happens spontanously, you look and your brain decides whether you like it or not. Is expressing it a sin? Is staying true to your thoughts bad, or demeaning? Is NOT expressing it any better while I still think she's ugly? Is political correctness THAT important here, when the girl actually ASKS for opinion by entering such contest?

Males fault. They like round tits and big butts.

So? Women like tall, dark haired guys instead. Is it any shameful to hear you're - being a runty blond - aren't considered handsome? Do you feel bad when women say they don't like men with your hair color? I don't. I don't give a damn because there are women who like my height and hair color. Wanting to be accepted by EVERYONE is just mad, because tastes differ so much. Not being able to stand other tastes is just lack of distance to yourself.

Most males like big tits, yes. It's not something they're doing deliberately, they just work that way. There is no mischievous planning in it and there should be no guilt for that, either. If a woman changes her appearance for a beauty contest, she most likely tries to appeal to "common likings" aka big tits, slim waist, etc. That kinda suggests she doesn't like herself or consider herself attractive enough. It's HER inferiority complex and SHE'S the one responsible, because she can't learn to ignore the masses - there is lots of males who LOVE small tits - they are just not majority. Am I to take blame for that, consider myself - or men in general - responsible for her pretty horrible surgeries?

Those are my points. Address them please, Keksi, JJ, William. If you think I'm demeaning ANYWHERE in my logic, please tell me.

If not, I have to assume you're just unfair.

I seriously hate the "shinyarmor boyscout defender of woman's honor, no matter how stupid the woman's actions are". No, it's not about you Keksi, you're an intelligent poster and I like you It's more like, I don't like the logic some people are trying to use. I'm of course not implying you use it here, Keksi... just my ramblings, ignore them. But no, I'm not sexist. I would bash any "shinyarmor boyscound defender of man's honor no matter what", too. I like equality.

What's the difference between a tatoo and false tits?

The piercing, eyeliner and such is not a part of your body.
False tits is "cheating" on beauty. Why are steroids banned on strength contests? Think of it. Super-steroid guy would most likely crush all oposition. (I know they all take it... but it's still banned and for a reason). That kind of artificial boost is considered unfair in sports.
And I think it's unfair in beauty contests, too.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 24, 2009 04:21 PM
Edited by JollyJoker at 16:23, 24 Nov 2009.

Quote:


What's the difference between a tatoo and false tits?

The piercing, eyeliner and such is not a part of your body.
False tits is "cheating" on beauty. Why are steroids banned on strength contests? Think of it. Super-steroid guy would most likely crush all oposition. (I know they all take it... but it's still banned and for a reason). That kind of artificial boost is considered unfair in sports.
And I think it's unfair in beauty contests, too.

Not true. A tattoo is part of your body. Breast operations works BOTH ways, mind you; women with too big breasts take away something so that they become smaller. Because it's not true that all males like BIG breasts - true is that they like them well-rounded and soft, but still "elastic" to the feel; moreover they should be neither too small nor too big. Everything you take away or add is artificial: take away a piercing and you have a small hole there. Scars? Burn scars? Skin transplants? All ugly? I don't think so.

EVERY manipulation of natural looks has the purpose to make someone look better. You can obviously take away a breast implant - it's not that easy, though. Coloured hair? A toupet? Teeth fillings or even crowns, tooth implants - what about them?
So you are drawing a personal, very subjective line about what is "legal" (not cheating) and what is illegal, and that line is just subjective. What if she had a teeth correction in the past?
Why make such a fuss about "corrected" breasts?

Now you may say, yeah, but corecting the consequences of an accident is something else. Well, being born with the genetic dispositioon for too small breasts may be considered an accident as well, so?

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Keksimaton
Keksimaton


Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
posted November 24, 2009 04:29 PM
Edited by Keksimaton at 16:30, 24 Nov 2009.

Okay, I guess I can follow your line of thought pretty well.

I also believe that I strayed from the subject a bit too far with my rash conclusions and started making off topic claims on things not of this thread.

I'm sorry. I messed up.


It would seem our arguments originate from miscommunications. Except that one time in the love thread when we argued about condoms. That was me trolling. (How can one have a serious conversation about anything when Captain Planet is involved? Well, it did get pretty serious in the end.)
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 04:41 PM

Why no prob, I messed up too And the discussions are refreshing, I don't have many guys to discuss with on HC lately ) Cheers pal

JJ: Tattoo is more like a drawing on your skin. It doesn't change the shape of your body and doesn't make false curves, if you get what I mean. So doesn't hair color. False teeth are cheating, much as false hair imho.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 24, 2009 04:45 PM

Well, I'm against breast implants, tattoos, and all that self-mutilation junk. You can't blame me for pressuring people to get them.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 24, 2009 05:02 PM

Quote:
Why no prob, I messed up too And the discussions are refreshing, I don't have many guys to discuss with on HC lately ) Cheers pal

JJ: Tattoo is more like a drawing on your skin. It doesn't change the shape of your body and doesn't make false curves, if you get what I mean. So doesn't hair color. False teeth are cheating, much as false hair imho.

Cheating? Nah. Correcting the unjust way nature or fate (in case of an accident) dealt the cards. It's what humanity is all about. Who would be the cheated anyway?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


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Retired Hero
posted November 24, 2009 06:09 PM

The other models?

Everyone has flaws... you want it to turn into "who has more money for scalpel" type of competition?

Most of them are young girls after all, and not all are 100% professional. Not all can afford the most costly types of operations, either.

Besides, is that what we want? Scalpel-created beauty, steroid-created strength? Nature is unjust in everything, not just looks. The best example is intelligence or talent.

I'm surprised you actually defend false beauty - not that I have something against people who want to get around their flaws (I'd go for a way to increase my height too, if I could without the wire elongation method), I'm just against those competing in contests, which are - imho - meant to show us the true, natural way of perfection humanity can attain. In strength, sports, looks, mind.

Being high on amphetamine is not liked at exams, even though it makes learning easier. It's considered cheating.
Being steroid-pumped to oblivion isn't liked at sports - it's considered cheating.
I think that being scalpel-enhanced belongs in the same category.

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