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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: to promote small armies
Thread: to promote small armies
stankelbenet
stankelbenet


Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted November 28, 2009 03:46 PM

to promote small armies

So far in the HOMM games it has all been about the size of your biggest army. Having one hero wandering around with the whole army has been the most reasonable thing to do.

I think it would be cool if small armies had some bonuses which made the player choose to divide his army into smaller groups instead of centralizing all his troops in one big. I have some ideas on it:

Large armies move slower, And this is usually true in the real world too, so I should have the realists on my side this time. This way the weak armies would be much better for scouting. I think the skill logistics now should decrease this penalty just like pathfinding decreases the penalty of moving in terrain.
another skill I would like to see changed and reintroduced is stealth. Now the hero should be able to be invisible on the adventure map as long as the strength of the army doesn't reach a value defined by the level of the skill and the level of the hero.

What do you think about it and do you have some other ideas of how to promote small armies?

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted November 28, 2009 03:49 PM

Great ideas! I'll give them some thoughts!

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted November 28, 2009 04:39 PM

Having only played HoMM2-4, I can only talk from experience of those.

The last part first, I believe if stealth should be applyable in a game like heroes, such as heroes 4, you need to have an unlimited amount of units to prevent your opponent to make sneak attack, otherwise you force everyone to take the scouting skill, which is a waste of gameplay, i.e. one skill is so overpowered that if you don't counter it every time you loose, but if you don't apply it, only counters it and your opponent does neither, you loose as well.

But unlimited heroes is certainly overpowered, on the other hand wandering creatures is not, as they don't get bonuses and in this way the stealth warrior still have a chance, but wandering creatures were never appreciated, maybe because it took too long time to set up your guards of your kingdom?

So I don't think stealth should be reapplied, at least not in the sense like heroes 4, which is what I understood from your writings.

Now for the thread topic, small armies, from my experience of heroes 3, small armies already have one major advantage.

As long as counter measures such as Orb of Inhibition, Black Orb or Shackles of War, are applied, high spell power heroes, with few, but very fast creatures will not only move faster than the opponent who runs around with slow golems, zombies, skeletons, etc. on the adventure map, but is relative easy to have many of in a short time, and can quickly disamble much greater armies simply through hit & run tactic.

In this sense, it's in my experience, most often the best way to play already to divide and conquer between your heroes, evolve them all, move with great speed, getting more investigated and to say it simple, playing aggressive scout war.

First when you've sufficient information of your opponent, you take your main attacker, that single hero you've evolved in a different way, to have high attack and defense, to use dimension door, to be hidden from your opponent by retreat and rehire, etc. then you collect your entire army on this single hero, via scouts with town portal that can assemble the units at the nearest town where you rehire this hero, then you d-door to the opponent town, and takes it.

That's the only time where I'd use the collected army hero, that or when my opponent have anti measures for scout war, such as the examples already mentioned.

So all in all, it's not about the size of the army in my experience, rather how you use your units and your heroes, 1000 extra slow units will only do you harm if it means you'll be 1 day late in a battle where all you've to do is to cast a single spell anyway.

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stankelbenet
stankelbenet


Adventuring Hero
bringer of nostalgia & darknes
posted December 02, 2009 02:48 PM

Sorry i'm so late at answering.
First up: I haven't ever played a map of HOMM3 where splitting my army up into lesser armies were a good strategy. It has always been the best for me to make one big army. Sometimes I had some large areas to protect and were forced to have two large armies but at that time I usually controlled more than one town. I still play the hit&run tactic but with few large armies. Perhaps we just play the game very differently?

About the stealth ability: I see the necessity of scouting as a good thing. I find scouting really useless and with the stealth ability it will suddenly become a lot more useful. I don't want stealth to be overpower so some drawbacks on stealth should probably also be applied.

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted December 02, 2009 04:50 PM

We disagree on the matter of scouting.

When I make scout heroes I often give them scouting because that way I can much faster reveal the map, and do so without my opponent with less scouting radius discover I'm nearby.

About using big armies.
The thing is first and foremost, if you by big army mean buy all possible units from a given town after a long gameplay and the go out and powerplay thrugh with it, it often means you take slow units with you, unless you've carriers around you to hold these at the end of the turn.

Having slow units, such as speed 4, limits your movement of that day quite a lot.

It means that if you're about to take an opponent town, you can't do so without getting into 1 day movement of the opponent, because you need more movement than the opponent needs 1 day.

Then the opponent could just buy phoenixes and under the assumption having a 2.5k armageddon and you've no shackles, orbs or speed arties to make you go first, the opponent can simply attack, fire armageddon, retreat and keep on doing so a lot of times because you're close to the town of the opponent.

Also with a weekly growth of 2 Archangels in average, that's 5 weeks for 2500 hit points, so each time the opponent does that, you loose 5 weeks worth of army not counting resistance etc.

That's quite a lot, even for a 12 month game, because it means 12 attacks and you've lost all an entire town have produced in that time.
(It's not accurate, but it's an illustration of the idea).

Also, if you've read some of Salamandres post in the library you can get an impression of how good small fast armies with high spell power really can be.
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Warlord
Warlord


Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
posted July 01, 2010 06:35 PM

Why would limiting small armies help? And besides, numbers don't neccesarly matter. Who would win? 1,000,000 Peasants or 1000 Titans? No heroes. Obviously, the Titans. Also, your Stealth skill is way OP. A person could just keep capturing other people's mines without being caught.
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