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mvassilev
Responsible
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posted December 03, 2009 09:35 AM |
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Because it shows that JJ can't just play the "so, you're racist" card.
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Eccentric Opinion
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 09:46 AM |
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No, I play the "so you are BIASSED" card. 
The worst thing is, that it's counter productive: ASSUMING, you were right, what kind of etablissement would be targeted for anything untoward: one that serves all or one with a sign "we don't serve blacks"?
Generally, Mvass, shouldn't you think about your general idea that everything can be behaviouristically/deterministically regulated by the profit motive, as if humans were nothing else than mules, trudging behind the PROFIT carrot and to hell with everything else?
Don't answer, because it's off-topic. Just a thougt, maybe to discuss in another thread. I mean, what kind of freedom is freedom when you can predict, control, and direct everything with the application of just one motive? That's not freedom, that's automatism.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 10:11 AM |
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Quote:
Of course you can reject a woman for a job. But then the woman can sue you, claiming you did it just because you can't stand women, and if she can prove that her qualifications are superior, she'll win,
I find this disturbing. What, am I not allowed not to want women in MY OWN PRIVATE business? What sort of capitalism is that? I thought I can want whatever I want.
Will it be ok if I state in the job advertisement that I want only men to apply?
If we want to play capitalists, I wouldn't want women in my business at all, so I find this disturbing I actually _can't_ not want them.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 10:44 AM |
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*Sigh*
A business is NEVER private. It's maybe privately owned, but every business is public.
Can a society that aims to make as much as possible privately owned allow these things? Wouldn't it be possible for groups dominating businesses, either due to being a majority - racially, religiously, age-wise and so on - or due to historical reasons - women not allowed in certain jobs, for example - to CEMENT their domination by simply agreeing not to accept [member of a group] in business.
This way you could just block, for example, women out of academic or high-payment jobs to leave only menial work or services.
You don't want that.
Isn't that OBVIOUS?
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Doomforge
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posted December 03, 2009 10:47 AM |
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Hey, I'm not asking the reasons behind this and I'm not really against it. just asking whether it's true and whether I really _can't_ make a gender requirement for a job. At least according to law.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 03, 2009 02:45 PM |
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Quote:
A system, democratic or not, where your constitutional rights cannot be taken away.
Since when (and where?) is it a constitutional right to build a specific building???
Just a reminder: The swiss people didn't ban islam, they voted against NEW permitions to build minaretts!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted December 03, 2009 02:48 PM |
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Quote:
Hey, I'm not asking the reasons behind this and I'm not really against it. just asking whether it's true and whether I really _can't_ make a gender requirement for a job. At least according to law.
No you can't. Constitution!
You're not allowed to treat someone bad (discriminate) only due to his/her gender, religion, skin color etc...
So exactly what some kind of religions are doing is forbidden in most of the modern constitutions..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 04:14 PM |
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But what if it's based on simple preference, not racial/sexual motives? You are allowed to pick more intelligent people, or more pretty (if it's a job that requires so, ie. modelling), nobody makes a fuss of it. But if you want men, or women only, you can actually get sued for that? Even if it's not because you think, for instance, are inferior, but because you prefer working with men for some reason?
(or are afraid that they will get pregnant. Two years of paying for an employee who doesn't work. That's the major problem with women, actually... While corporations don't care, it becomes a problem when your business is small and you can't afford to pay a big sum every month for someone who doesn't show up... for 2 years or so)
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 04:16 PM |
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I dont understand the reson they wanna bann minarets. Its just a tower on a building. Churches have towers too. It really dosnt make sense to me.
But its probably a symptom of the frustration in many european societies conserning our muslim immigrants. People bitterly regret letting these people, who cause all kinds of problems with their ancient religion and culture, in to their countries. The muslims as a group cause much more problems to the society than they bring benefits. The western culture is simply better than the muslim, so asimilation is the solution if we dont wanna see a setback in our civilisation.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 04:19 PM |
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Actually MEN can take the pregnancy vacation as well, Doom. You may have a guy working in your outfit - and one day the guy comes to you, telling you that his wife is pregnant, but instead HER looking after the child after birth it will be HIM.
It's really astonishing to see that people know so little about these things.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 04:22 PM |
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I am actually aware of that, JJ - it never (or NEARLY never) happens in Poland, though. For a few reasons - not many people know of it, for once (yes, it's as you say) and there is a strong taboo connected to the whole concept of "mother works, father rises the kid". Which means that men are UNLIKELY to do such here. Which means less risk, which is preferable, I guess.
Not to mention that there is social pressure for men to be successful at work here, not in their home.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 03, 2009 04:41 PM |
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I replied a lot of you guys earlier, you agree with those? No questions, it was a satisfying reply? 
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Living time backwards
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 03, 2009 05:19 PM |
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Quote:
But what if it's based on simple preference, not racial/sexual motives? You are allowed to pick more intelligent people, or more pretty (if it's a job that requires so, ie. modelling), nobody makes a fuss of it. But if you want men, or women only, you can actually get sued for that? Even if it's not because you think, for instance, are inferior, but because you prefer working with men for some reason?
Intelligence/beauty discrimination is currently not against the law (in fact, it's encouraged between the lines ); when the stupid and the ugly muster enough votes to change it, we (the smart and the handsome  ) will have to obey the law... But they're probably too stupid and ugly for that.Quote:
(or are afraid that they will get pregnant. Two years of paying for an employee who doesn't work. That's the major problem with women, actually... While corporations don't care, it becomes a problem when your business is small and you can't afford to pay a big sum every month for someone who doesn't show up... for 2 years or so)
Maternity/parental leave is one of the most common excuses for gender discrimination.
In Canada it's up to a year and paid by Employment Insurance system, not directly by the employer. In Europe it's usually a few months but they are pushing for more.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 03, 2009 05:56 PM |
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Quote:
]Everyone is a little racist deep down inside. Imagine you're in a dark parking garage late at night, when you notice there's a guy in jeans and a t-shirt walking behind you. Now, are your thoughts different depending on whether he's white or black? (If there's no such bias against black people in your society, replace them with Turks.) You may support full equality for blacks - but you'll probably quicken your steps more if the person is black than if he's white.
Due to the fact that 9/10 of people in jail in France are black/north african it is more a decision based on statistics and not on racism. When a race does not harm to you and still you dislike/hate it, that is racism. But when the harm is daily and coming from same people over and over, it is conservation instinct.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Doomforge
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posted December 03, 2009 06:52 PM |
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Racism is whenever you think a human being is by any means inferior because of a difference to another human being.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 03, 2009 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
Racism is whenever you think a human being is by any means inferior because of a difference to another human being.
Just as a point of discussion - is there anything inherently wrong with that? And for that matter, what is "inferior"?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 03, 2009 08:10 PM |
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I'm severely racist by that definition, and not ashamed of it.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted December 03, 2009 08:14 PM |
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All humans are equal? pffft!
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted December 03, 2009 08:27 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 20:29, 03 Dec 2009.
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Racism is whenever you think a human being is by any means inferior because of their race.
Semantics - The main purpose for internet forums. The study of discussing the meaning/interpretation of words within a certain context; usually in order to win some form of argument. - Urban Dictionary
Let's NOT do this.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 08:58 PM |
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Semantics are sometimes important, because after all, we need to be able to name the problem we are discussing
If we don't agree on what racism is, there is no point in discussion, gentlemen. Because we will be discussing different things.
Cor, what's wrong with considering other people as inferior? Well, isn't that obvious?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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This thread is pages long: 
