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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: 5 towns
Thread: 5 towns This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 10, 2010 07:53 PM
Edited by bixie at 22:07, 10 Mar 2010.

5 towns

the more Homm suggestions I see, the number of towns seem to increase. I think the number of towns got ridiculous at 9 in Homm3, and to tell you the truth, whenever I see a suggestion with about 14 towns in it, I facepalm and think "oh lordy, look at all the far too similar creatures." Whatever happened to the phrase, "Less is more?" whatever happened to focusing on balance and making each town unique, rather than simple re-skin bits and peices?

ranting aside, I've got an idea for Homm 6 or a spin off that takes the town number down and puts more emphasis on uniqueness amoungst each.

there are only going to be 5 towns, Yes, 5 towns, let me say that again, 5! no more are coming in the expansion, only the 5 towns are going to be expanded on.

Also, creature types get a bit of a revision.

in addition to walkers, shooters, flyers and spellcasters, we get:
summoners- a unit who is able to summon lesser creatures to the feild. these creatures are not included in the towns list of creatures, but a seperate list that can be selected from the summoners spellbook.
scouts- scouts are exploration units. they provide more of a tactical view on the map. when they are attacked, they instantly die.
medics- a unit who purpose is to heal/repair units in battle. as such, they are generally very weak in combat.

Also, there is not nessecarily 7 creatures in a faction (although that is the least a faction has). instead, it's variable depending in the faction in question over whether certain units can upgrade, how many units a faction has, and how powerful they are. however, they all are equally balanced, and whilst one faction might have less units, they might be balanced with their cheapness, their increase in summoners or medics, or more upgrades.

factions

The palace
this faction is about light, holy light, classic knights in shining armour, angels, Basically every single knight, castle and haven faction in heroes.
however, they have a bit of a sinister twist here, in that they are complete fascists. believing that they are the almighty's chosen people, they will slaughter, rape, and torch in his name. they even have a heirarchy of races.
hero: Pure one- a person who has been blessed to take on the ascendency and be reborn as a pure one.
represents: well, undecided. not life, possible purity, but I digress.
creatures
the palace generally has the most balanced
1. Flagelant
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. Martyr  
8.

The Academy
This faction is about learning, information, it's the academy town from Homm3,4 and 5. it's a town based on knowledge and understanding.
However, like all of these, there is a sinister twist, in that the inhabitants have become... slightly brainiac. in that they value knowledge way over life. with a motto like "They will understand, or we will purge their ignorance", it says alot about the town. It's also the most technological town, and the cold ruthless machine plays alot into it.
Hero: High academe- the highest a person can strive to in the society, sacrificing body and soul for the pursuit of knowledge.
represents: Order
creatures
1. Gremlin
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Invoker

The haven
this faction is about nature, nurture, is the sorceress, rampart, nature town. from fearie creatures, with elves, to mighty treants and pheonixes, and so on.
the sinister twist is that it's like a hive, in that it's all about spreading with centralised, instinctual control. it's the spikyness of nature, the poison and thorns, as well as the wild animals claws and teath. these are not the classical elves, these are dangerous and feral creatures.
Hero: life walker- when reaching a full connection with the central mind that it becomes a living embodiement of it.
represents: Life
creatures
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Pheonix

The fortress
This faction is about rage and might, fire and power. IT's the stronghold, dungeon and inferno faction rolled into one. It's a fiery, chaotic seething mass of rage and power.
the main focus of this faction is that it's about dragons, and the fact that dragons are more powerful and more intelligent that originally thought. they are, esentially, demi gods, in their power to change, shape and control the form of their followers.
hero: Pyrant- those born with burning eyes are said to receive the total blessing of the dragons.
represents: chaos
creatures
1. Goblin
2.
3.
4.
5. Troll
6. Lamia
7.
8.
9. Dragon

the necropolis
This faction is pretty standard undead faction. death, with the desperation about trying to conquer death. it's a subtle faction, as well as instant death, is about souls and so forth.
like with the Fortress, what's changed is the improvement of one particular unit, in this case, the vampires. they've gone from being level4 units to going toe to toe with angels. interestingly enough, this faction has the most summoners in amongst it's ranks.
hero: Lord of skulls- taking up the office of the herald of the necropolis is not to be taken lightly, but those who do are powerful indeed.
represent: what do you think?!
creatures
1. ghouls
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Necromancer
7. Vampire

so there you have it, my proposal, tell me what you think.
____________
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Sherekhaan
Sherekhaan


Adventuring Hero
posted March 10, 2010 11:03 PM

I agree entirely; less is more. Do 5 very well and it will be a far more enjoyable game with better replayability because each facion is genuinely a different experience (to a large extent).

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2010 06:52 AM

5 towns is too few, we haven't been that low since H1 (H2-6, H3-8/9, H4-6, H5-6/7/8), and people are going to be really upset about losing Warlocks.

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 11, 2010 08:55 AM

warlocks will come back as a unit.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2010 09:54 AM
Edited by MattII at 10:03, 11 Mar 2010.

Not going to be good enough, Warlocks - together with Knights and Barbarians - are the oldest hero (or faction in the early days) class names to still be in use. 6 is, I think, the lowest number of towns you can put in a HoMM game and not degrade it.

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 11, 2010 09:57 AM

well then, Matt, Suggest a town that is completely unique to any of the three towns that have been put up.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 11, 2010 11:35 AM
Edited by MattII at 11:40, 11 Mar 2010.

Deep
This faction is all about fear and control. It's based on Troglodytes, Deeplurkers (see Illithids, D&D), and a number of dark-dwelling terrors (see Abberations, D&D).
The Twist here is, that they are far from being the isolated underground terrors that many would suppose them to be, they are experts at disguising themselves as others, and their spies have long walked among the other races, and many have worked themselves into strategic positions in the other races' hierarchies, just waiting for the signal to bring whole civilisations down so that they helpless to stay the spread of darness and terror.
Hero: Dark Bringer - A rare but powerful group of Deeplurkers who can not only walk under open skies, but allow whole armies of deep terrors to do so.
Represents: Terror, or perhaps impurity.
1. Wyrmling
2. Troglodyte
3. Evil Eye
4. Wyrm
5. Deeplurker
6. Beholder
7. Deeplurker Mindflayer
8. Deep Wyrm

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 11, 2010 01:35 PM

fair enough.

But when it comes down to it, less is more.
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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted March 11, 2010 04:51 PM

Idk, Six towns doesn't seem like too much to me, but then again I'm a traditionalist.  If this can be made to work so that nothing is really lost it COULD work, and I do like the way the factions weave together.
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How exactly is luck a skill?

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lumpor
lumpor


Adventuring Hero
posted March 13, 2010 06:13 PM

I agree that it's ridiculous when I see the threads with 20 factions, many of them having ridiculous themes (like rebel factions and death knight factions... ugh)

But I still think 5 is way too little. There are 8 factions in homm 5 now and it feels just right. Homm 3 maybe could've lost one or two but it still wasn't all too bad.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
posted March 13, 2010 06:26 PM

Vampire?The most powerful necropolis creature?Bad idea...more stronger like undeads dragons,death knights,wraiths,lichs and necromancers!!!!!!!!!

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 13, 2010 06:35 PM

Quote:
Vampire?The most powerful necropolis creature?Bad idea...more stronger like undeads dragons,death knights,wraiths,lichs and necromancers!!!!!!!!!


yes, these are the bela lugosi dracula vampires, these are the opposite creature to angels and are able to go toe to toe with them. more importantly, they are not slaves, and they are cunning and dangerous, probably making them more dangerous, at least in this universe, than undead dragons (which is an impossiblity, in this universe, as the moment a dragon died, he conflagrates and his bones become part of the town.)
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
posted March 13, 2010 07:06 PM

Dracula is one vampire,not a race of vampires.They are dead people who drink blood etc.I think the max level must be 5.

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted March 13, 2010 07:26 PM

I could be fine with a level 7 Vampire, but they would have to have some really good powers.  
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How exactly is luck a skill?

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 13, 2010 07:33 PM

Quote:
I could be fine with a level 7 Vampire, but they would have to have some really good powers.  


would being able to summon ghouls, steal spells from spell books and have old fashioned vampirism back be cool.
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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted March 13, 2010 07:52 PM

Summon wolves too?

Maybe able to cast hypnotism?
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How exactly is luck a skill?

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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted March 13, 2010 08:59 PM

wolves... probably not, wolves more fall into the Haven faction...

hypnotism, yes.
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted March 13, 2010 10:28 PM

How about being able to increase their numbers if they kill enemy units (vampires are mean to be able to convert people by biting them after all)?

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted March 13, 2010 10:29 PM

Butbutbut the original dracula had wolf controlling powers!  *pleading face*

Bah, fine.  
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How exactly is luck a skill?

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted March 13, 2010 11:04 PM
Edited by ohforfsake at 00:14, 14 Mar 2010.

I'd like to suggest in stead of focusing on some arbitrary number and claiming anything higher/lower is too much/less, then we should use our creativity to produce as many unique factions we can and since every faction is unique, it is a unique experience.

Okay, unique does probably need a more clear definition, because for a town to be unique, it does not need to be completely independent on ideas of other towns, it is the experience of playing the town that must be entirely different.

Focus must also be on balance. Balance in the way Doomforge once suggested, that is each town is good for their very own thing, in a rock-paper-sciccor kind of play, but to a degree that depends on the style of the player more than anything else. That is so Roger will beat Jenkins with Haven vs. Academi, but Jenkins will beat Harald in the same setup, yet Harald will beat Roger in that same setup. Though that is of course the hardest part, because everyone can make the most riddicolous and cool creatures, but I think entertainment is two sided, the easy part, the coolness, or high quality if you want, and the hard part, the excitement, which comes from the balance.

So no I don't think there's any set number, more is less only applies if you are ought of ideas and try to add onto something believing more of the same will still work as good as ever, which I don't think it will.

What really would be great in my opinion, though I have a feeling many would disagree, would be if you'd create your own towns in the way that you go out and flag buildings and then these buildings are build in your towns, however there are limits because some types of creatures cannot be ally with others, but that only applies to intelligent creatures.

That is let there be intelligent and beast creatures, beast creatures can be combined as you wish, but you've to assign at least one type of intelligent creature at the number equal the number of beast creatures (unless you've some kind of inventions) and then there's a risk of loosing these intelligent creatures (which also looses the beast creature as it then can flee).

So having beast creatures is risky, but for intelligent creatures on the other hand, you cannot combine all types of allignments, that is stuff like devils and angels, etc. Liches and Druids and what you may be able to think forward to.

I have a few ideas for various creatures, I don't know, if this is the thread to tell them?
Anyway shortly, inspiration from heroes3:
Pit Lord - intelligent creature - ability to summon demons (there's no demon faction you get your demons from sacrificing creatures you either bring to town, or creatures already in your town).
Have you invested in some kind of inventions (probably another type of intelligent creature that can provide these, probably low level and useless fighter, so it takes a whole town unit for a non-fighter creature) then you can improve your demons (and any type of beast unit) through cybernetics and similar technologies.

An example of this, you could give your demons great attacking speed, in principle giving them the ability to attack so fast that the opponent may not be able to retaliate, even looses their turn, or something more creative.

You can however not use cybergenetics, etc. on intelligent creatures, unless these are of a certain type that wants it, otherwise you'll loose these creatures.

Another idea could be if you upgrade to school of death, you can basicly make any kind of humanoid intelligent being into liches, however the time it takes is depending on their base intelligent, so peasents would take several weeks, at which you'll might have lost because you sacrificed your low level slot for being stronger later, while monks might only take a few days.

Likewise, I like the way vampires can ressurect, but I'd like if it could be implented, so those they bite takes time during battle to change into more vampires. This way the vampire is fragile alone, but in a big fight, they can be extremely endureable.

Finally I think the zombie needs a clear upgrade, I think it's fine they're slow, and kind of weak as a unit by themselves, but I'd really like that they have the same effect as ghosts from heroes 2, that is those they take down comes back as zombies.

I'd also like to see ghosts in the same way, however this requires some kind of magic to prevent the souls from leaving the realm, and becoming physical and taken control over.

So all in all, I really would like if no town is set, rather you've to flag 8 units of 8 levels and that makes a town, likewise you can go into all kinds of magic, ingeniering, etc. completely depending on the units you choose.

Finally, there's the king spider, very doom inspired creature, not that it'll be a big brain with a machine gun, but a spider with the ability, like the cybergenetic modified demon, of the opposing unit looses its turn, however this effect (not the attack) applies in all fields around the king spider.

Also I'd really like the amount of units to mean something more than just a multiplier of damage and health. Like special effect improvement. So that special effect either increases in chance, like with the mighty gorgon, or that it will apply to a larger area.
I'd also really like, if you e.g. have a stack of 2 creatures, you choose if 1 creature should attack one place, and the other another place (the retaliation, unless an area of effect attack) will only hit the single creature and not both. This would be a way to spread the effect to multiple opponents.

Which reminds me, there should be 3 types of attacks (inspired from diablo series), area of effect attacks, that'll always hit everything on the spot attacked, or even several spots. Piercing attacks, which basicly are fire breath attacks, but without any kind of area of attack in it, so it only hits the single unit (and if the single units goes down, it hits the next, etc. independent of the amount that attacked) finally there's the regular attack that works normally.

I suppose it might need an example.

Assume a stack of 2 monster A's and some random stack of monster B, divided equally, is around the stack of 2 monster A's.

Then when monster A attacks, you decide how many should attack, if they should attack both monsters, 1 monster attacking each, or if both should attack a single, or none attacking at all. On the same time, the retaliation will only be applied to those that attacks, unless there's an area of effect type of attack, which hits everything.

Being on that subject, the dragon breath of dragons (less dragons please, I think it's cool with a few kinds, but not more of the same, and I honestly think the idea of fearie dragons are a bit weird) should be both an area of effect attack and a piercing attack. This way it doesn't matter how many attacks the dragon, if just one unit in the stack attacks, then the dragon retaliates against the entire stack, this way, units with area of effect attacks should always be fully attacked.

Finally maybe to divide between the two types of area of effect, then call one of them splash damage, like when the hydra attacks several fields around it.

Edit:
Also, I think there should be more tactics to the game, than what previous attempts have shown, still with you moving a single unit in a single round, but like american football, you should be able to train your units, so they'll act in a certain way, which you can decide, like you can decide on certain games in american football.

Like you could train your units, so they gain the ability to whirlwind (diablo inspired skill), whirlwinding away, and any melee unit that goes after won't be able to do any damage, only recieve damage, unless you whirlwind all through battle field and gets stuck in a corner. However, if the opponent are prepared, they won't let their melee units walk straight into that line, or they've given their a part of their melee unit stacks a long range weapon, so that tactic won't work, etc. That way it is about knowing the ways of your opponent more than anything, taking spying and thereby scout war into a whole different level.

Likewise, I'd really like, if the fog of war concept from heroes IV would be partly used. However make it so, that if you've an area you've conquered, then the opponent get "fog of war" in this area, if none have conquered it, no one gets fog of war. This way it is an anti-spying way, which makes it possible, even if you loose your town, etc. to still be able to make a counter attack, which is much harder in maps without fog of war, unless your opponent aren't counting steps.
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