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| Thread: How many does it take to kill 1 million black dragons? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 15, 2010 10:58 PM |
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How many does it take to kill 1 million black dragons?
I did my calc for Crusader (using average values)... It takes exactly 3552399 of them. There will be 2309 left over. If there is just 1 less Crusader, the Black Dragons will win with 459 left over!
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted April 15, 2010 11:38 PM |
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How come one makes such a difference?
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2010 05:55 AM |
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Quote:
How come one makes such a difference?
Cuz the battle lasts 25 rounds. That 1 difference adds up along the way.
Anyway, now for Titans!
If Dragons start first, it will take 1139461 Titans, with 842 left over! If there is just 1 less Titan, there will be 1021 Dragons left over!
If Titans start first, it will take 1036154 Titans, with 1244 left over! If there is just 1 less Titan, there will be 777 Dragons left over!
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted April 16, 2010 12:11 PM |
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That was probably the most meaningless information about Heroes 3, that i have ever read.
But who knows. Maybe the fate will punish me, facing me against 1 milion black dragons. I will have only 47576943 dwellings for crusaders and will pull my hairs off wondering how many exactly do i need to defeat the dragons.
And then i will have to come to this topic and apologies and thank the autor.
And whos going to laugh then, huh...
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I play Heroes 3 Online at: www.heroes-III.com
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted April 16, 2010 12:13 PM |
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Quote:
I will have only 47576943 dwellings for crusaders
Unfortunatelly, engine supports only 128 dwellings per map 
Quote:
How come one makes such a difference?
Maths!
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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xlnt
Known Hero
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posted April 16, 2010 12:17 PM |
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Is this for HoMM2 or HoMM3?
wonder how many Peasants it takes 
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2010 03:04 PM |
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Edited by cepheids at 15:08, 16 Apr 2010.
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Quote:
That was probably the most meaningless information about Heroes 3, that i have ever read.
But who knows. Maybe the fate will punish me, facing me against 1 milion black dragons. I will have only 47576943 dwellings for crusaders and will pull my hairs off wondering how many exactly do i need to defeat the dragons.
And then i will have to come to this topic and apologies and thank the autor.
And whos going to laugh then, huh...
I was wondering how fair Heroes2 is so I pitted 4 Crusaders against 1 Black Dragon. The Black Dragon won. It seemed pretty unfair, considering the population growth is 4 for Crusaders but 3 for Black Dragons.
Slowly increasing the limit, I found that Crusaders gain advantage as the scale increased. It is impossible (is it?) to take limits, so I decided 1 million Black Dragons! So here I have it, 3.55 Crusaders = 1 Black Dragon!
But 35 Crusaders cannot beat 10 Black Dragons. It takes 37 and will have 6 left over.
On the other hand, it only takes 35523976 Crusaders to take down 10 million Black Dragons.
The ratio at 10 Black Dragons is 3.7, at 1 million Black Dragons, it is 3.552399, at 10 million Black Dragons, it is 3.5523976. I guess the ratio will pretty much stabilize at around 3.552397.
Peasants... I hope my computer won't crash... For starters, it takes 387 Peasants to beat 1 Black Dragon, with 129 left over.
Yay, no crash!
It takes 285,250,279 Peasants to beat 1 million Black Dragons and there will be 136759 left over. If there is just 1 less Peasant, the Black Dragons will win with 246 left over!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 16, 2010 03:24 PM |
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Is this calculated for human controlled units, or AI controlled?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2010 03:40 PM |
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Quote:
Is this calculated for human controlled units, or AI controlled?
Its a hypothetical simulation without heroes. So, in some sense, Black Dragons get a disadvantage as their magic immunity and 2hex attack is not utilized.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 16, 2010 05:15 PM |
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Quote:
Its a hypothetical simulation without heroes.
Crusaders fighting Blackies without heroes is not even a hypothetical situation. 
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 16, 2010 08:52 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Its a hypothetical simulation without heroes.
Crusaders fighting Blackies without heroes is not even a hypothetical situation.
How about, with 2 heros with equal stats (level 1 perhaps), and no spells. Is this better? (there is no real difference to the experiement though...)
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 16, 2010 09:01 PM |
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I was just kidding. Although they are of little use, I've always thought these duels are fun. For example, check out the Fantasy Deathmatches.
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 19, 2010 06:51 AM |
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Edited by cepheids at 08:50, 19 Apr 2010.
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It might be interesting to note that while it takes about 1087808 Titans to beat 1 million Black Dragons, it only takes 934200 Titans to beat 1 million Red Dragons!
That means the upgrade from Red to Black is approximately a 16.4% improvement for a price increment (for gold only, and not counting dwelling upgrade cost) on only 14.3%!
Oh, and it takes 1190252 Red Dragons to take down 1 million Black Dragons.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted April 19, 2010 08:56 AM |
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Pffft, one sprite can kill 1 million black dragons.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted April 19, 2010 03:09 PM |
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Quote:
It might be interesting to note that while it takes about 1087808 Titans to beat 1 million Black Dragons, it only takes 934200 Titans to beat 1 million Red Dragons!
Meaningless as it is, its seems that your math is not correct either.
Lets repeat it again:
You need whole 934 200 Titans to beat 1 000 000 red dragons?
Are you sure you cant win with less Titans?
Maybe there is a catch?
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I play Heroes 3 Online at: www.heroes-III.com
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2010 11:49 AM |
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Quote:
Meaningless as it is, its seems that your math is not correct either.
Lets repeat it again:
You need whole 934 200 Titans to beat 1 000 000 red dragons?
Are you sure you cant win with less Titans?
Maybe there is a catch?
Yes, I made a mistake... Forgot to update the Attack and Defense to 13... It actually only takes 867237 Titans to take down 1 million Red Dragons.
It takes 11/9/7 Titans to take down 10 Black/Red/Green Dragons.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2010 12:27 PM |
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Quote:
I did my calc for Crusader (using average values)... It takes exactly 3552399 of them. There will be 2309 left over. If there is just 1 less Crusader, the Black Dragons will win with 459 left over!
Seems there is a problem there to me. Do you have detailed combat log? One crusader attaking 2 times (1 with retaliation and one without) and 1 time on retaliation hits 3 times each round. Even then it takes several rounds to kill a single dragon with one crusader so I don't see where are those 459 remaining dragons killed with one more crusader...
Can you explain? It's even less probable with the peasants but let's stay at the crusaders since the fight is shorter 
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 20, 2010 01:06 PM |
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Edited by tigris at 13:09, 20 Apr 2010.
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one thing i see no one is picking out on is morale
a single morale round changes all those calculations.
In any case the whole thing is pointless imo..too many variables and no relevance whatsoever in a real game.
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cepheids
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 20, 2010 03:30 PM |
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Edited by cepheids at 15:39, 20 Apr 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
I did my calc for Crusader (using average values)... It takes exactly 3552399 of them. There will be 2309 left over. If there is just 1 less Crusader, the Black Dragons will win with 459 left over!
Seems there is a problem there to me. Do you have detailed combat log? One crusader attaking 2 times (1 with retaliation and one without) and 1 time on retaliation hits 3 times each round. Even then it takes several rounds to kill a single dragon with one crusader so I don't see where are those 459 remaining dragons killed with one more crusader...
Can you explain? It's even less probable with the peasants but let's stay at the crusaders since the fight is shorter
Ok... The fight is 20 rounds long... I'll just show you the numbers at the beginning of each round...
[URL=http://img441.imageshack.us/i/crusadersvsblackdragons.jpg/] [/URL]
Quote:
one thing i see no one is picking out on is morale
a single morale round changes all those calculations.
In any case the whole thing is pointless imo..too many variables and no relevance whatsoever in a real game.
Yes, morale and luck will affect greatly. Hero's attack and defense will also matter a lot. But this serves as a good base for any modifiers which you can examine at your own time.
In terms of balancing, such hypothetical comparisons are at least reasonable.
Of course, you can argue that the average Knight hero will have better morale than the Warlock and that the Warlock would have better spells. And it is likely that such things are taken into consideration when 3DO did the balancing.
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pacifist
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2010 04:09 PM |
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Ah ok, thanks!
I missed the point that there is one more crusader at the beginning but later this helps to preserve the other crusaders too so the difference in attacking power adds significantly and the attacking power of dragons is also reduced . It makes perfect sense then.
Interesting in many philosophical ways too, one can make the difference
thanks again 
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http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u
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