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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Obama's Communist Ties
Thread: Obama's Communist Ties [ This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 (4) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ]
Mytical
Mytical

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Chaos seeking Harmony
posted June 16, 2010 06:57 PM

Probably, I stink at trying to spell certain words.
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Azagal
Azagal


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posted June 16, 2010 07:01 PM

Yeah I know how you feel... I never know whether I spell "gobbledygook" with an "i" or an "y" either.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted June 16, 2010 07:08 PM
Edited by Elodin at 19:24, 16 Jun 2010.

There are indeed quite a few things that could be said about Obama's incompetence and broken promises, but this thread is about Obama's ties to communism.

Here is a link that talks about communism, Black Liberation Theology, and how the two relate. This is very relevant as Obama sat in a Black Liberation Theology church for 20 years, under Rev. Wright.

Clicky

Here is a discussion of Annita Dunn, who worked for Obmaa from 2006-Nov2009, when she was force out due to being exposed as a communist.

Clicky


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Baklava
Baklava


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posted June 16, 2010 07:25 PM

Quote:
Barack Obama's Racist Communist Ideations

Could a moderator please change the title of the thread to this

Please
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del_diablo
del_diablo


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posted June 16, 2010 07:29 PM

Glenn Beck is NOT a valid source, he is just another boring headline maker without any valid conclusions.
But he does have facts, but interprents them wrong.
Wikipedia:
Quote:
Black liberation theology maintains that African Americans must be liberated from multiple forms of bondage — social, political, economic and religious. This formulation views Christian theology as a theology of liberation -- "a rational study of the being of God in the world in light of the existential situation of an oppressed community, relating the forces of liberation to the essence of the gospel, which is Jesus Christ," writes James Hal Cone.

Was not these kind of groups popular back then, and was there not some newspaper article around about Obamas old mentor saying something about that he warned him that joining that community WOULD damage his carrier as a politician?

Anyhow, without watching Ridicule Beck. What does he shortly summed up say, and why does it make sense?
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Elodin
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posted June 16, 2010 07:58 PM

I found an interesting article that correlates with Obama's statements in his book that he sought out Marxists in college.

Clicky

Quote:
Flipping through some old photos, I found this picture of me graduating from Occidental College on June 9, 1979. I’m wearing a red arm band. My parents were probably angry at me for doing this because it spoiled the graduation photo. Nevertheless, this photo has now come in handy as significant evidence that I was doing my part to protest Occidental College’s investments in South Africa. Moreover, it is part of the trail of documents that allows me to make the case that I was, indeed, a radical student who founded the anti-apartheid group which young President Obama spoke for a year and a half later on the Occidental College campus.

The fellow handing me my diploma was Occidental College president Richard C. Gilman. I’m sure he didn’t care for me…and I believed he was an evil guy.

From what Obama writes, I had the unusual opportunity to meet the young Barack Obama at a turning point in his life. In Dreams of My Father, Obama writes he got one of the early signs of his interest (and ability) in public speaking during his participation in a later anti-apartheid rally at Oxy in the fall of 1980.
I met Barack Obama face-to-face later that same year in late December 1980. By then, I was in my second year of graduate school at Cornell. I was doing my first, official teaching. The young Ann Coulter was a student in Theodore J. Lowi’s Introduction to American Government course in 1980 and I was the teaching assistant responsible for guiding her small group discussion section. Back on the West Coast for Christmas break, I was visiting a girlfriend who was still attending Occidental College who introduced me to “Barry” Obama and his housemate Mohammed Hasan Chandoo, a wealthy Pakistani student.

My most vivid memory of my time visiting with Obama was the way he strongly argued a rather simple-minded version of Marxist theory. I remember he was passionate about his point of view. As I remember, he was articulating the same Marxist theory taught by various professors at Occidental College. Based on my more detailed studies at Cornell, I remember I made a strong argument that his Marxist ideas were not in line with contemporary reality – particularly the practical experience of Western Europe.

I went on to become an assistant professor of political science at Williams College in MA, and won the William Anderson Award from the American Political Science Association for my doctoral dissertation. See here.

Obama, of course, became President of the United States in 2009. I can’t help but wonder if my common sense arguments ended up impacting his decision-making and career planning.

Nevertheless, I think my experience with the young Barack Obama is useful evidence of why he was able to win the trust and support of Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn and Alice Palmer. In 1995, Alice Palmer represented the state of Illinois’ 13th District. After she decided to run for Congress she named Obama as her hand-picked successor. Palmer’s extremist ideology is evident in an article she wrote for the Communist Party USA’s newspaper, the People’s Daily World, now the People’s Weekly World in June, 1986. Amazingly, it detailed her experience at the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

Regarding Rev. Wright’s affection for Marxism and socialism, please view the YouTube video below:

My gut feeling is that Obama won the trust of folks like Alice Palmer because he never surrendered that uncompromising, Marxist socialist ideology I saw in him as a sophomore at Occidental College back in 1980.

My graduation photo helps me remember my days as a young revolutionary and the moments when – like Barack Obama – I sincerely believed a Marxist socialist revolution was coming to turn everything around and to create a new, fairer and more just world. Today, however, it pains me to write that I’m deeply ashamed of my radical views. With more maturity, I understand the true meaning of that red arm band. It is especially painful for me to look at it knowing that my time at Occidental College aligned with the brutal Khmer Rouge period (1975-1979) which covered the rule of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge over Cambodia.

Nevertheless, I’m happy to revisit this unhappy chapter of my life if it helps others better understand the sincere commitment to Marxist revolutionary thought which animated me and the young President Obama.

John C. Drew, Ph.D. is an award-winning political scientist.

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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted June 17, 2010 12:27 AM
Edited by Shyranis at 00:34, 17 Jun 2010.

You do know that Sarah Palin and a few other Fox squawkers did absolutely no research before saying William Ayers killed people right? Not that any polarized channel working to stir up fake controversy (like all of them) and distract people from the real issues does any better. Instead they just ratcheted up the campaign talking points to the next level.

Link
Quote:
Ayers became involved in the New Left and the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).[10] He rose to national prominence as an SDS leader in 1968 and 1969. As head of an SDS regional group, the "Jesse James Gang," Ayers made decisive contributions to the Weatherman orientation toward militancy.[8] The group Ayers headed in Detroit, Michigan became one of the earliest gatherings of what became the Weatherman. Before the June 1969 SDS convention, Ayers became a prominent leader of the group, which arose as a result of a schism in SDS.[8] "During that time his infatuation with street fighting grew and he developed a language of confrontational militancy that became more and more pronounced over the year [1969]", disaffected former Weatherman member Cathy Wilkerson wrote in 2001. Ayers had previously become a roommate of Terry Robbins, a fellow militant, Wilkerson wrote. Robbins would later be killed while making a bomb.[11] In June 1969, the Weatherman took control of the SDS at its national convention, where Ayers was elected Education Secretary.[8] Later in 1969, Ayers participated in planting a bomb at a statue dedicated to police casualties in the 1886 Haymarket affair confrontation between labor supporters and the Chicago police.[12] The blast broke almost 100 windows and blew pieces of the statue onto the nearby Kennedy Expressway.[13] (The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[13][14] Rebuilding it yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast, and in January 1972 it was moved to Chicago police headquarters.[15]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the "War Council" meeting in Flint, Michigan. Two major decisions came out of the "War Council." The first was to immediately begin a violent, armed struggle (e.g., bombings and armed robberies) against the state without attempting to organize or mobilize a broad swath of the public. The second was to create underground collectives in major cities throughout the country.[16] Larry Grathwohl, a Federal Bureau of Investigation informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, stated that "Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, probably had the most authority within the Weatherman".


Ayers blew up statues while nobody was around, he was a vandal and arsonist but not a murderer like some lazy people who don't know how to google might say.

There are far more important issues at stake here. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Obama is a corporatist. Even if he is letting the Bush Tax cuts expire, he still gave the vast majority of Americans a tax cut. He, like Bush, like Clinton, Like Bush, Like Reagan, Like Carter, like... etc... likes to give ridiculous amounts of money that is either taxed or non-existent to companies for ineffectual results. Mostly because of the overabundance of lobbying, bribery and extortion that happens day to day in Washington.

Obama probably will be a one term president, but not because of Right-wing anger over a perceived threat (that was there to begin with) but because of a general disconnect with centrists that opposed the accelerated pace GWB was removing American liberties. Said Centrists (and true non-Beck Libertarians) are all disappointed at how he a) protects and offers immunity to everybody who orchestrated all of the illegal attacks on the American civil liberties b) continues all of he major policies of the previous administration (free speech zones, illegal wiretaps of all american citizens, waiving of warrants for mild suspicion, intimidation and vilification of innocents with the media working hand in hand, illegal abduction, experimentation on deportation and torture of innocent people with no retort or compensation or even apology and pat on the back).

His administration continues to do nothing but injustice to Maher Arar. Another man was placed on the no-fly list for no apparent reason and cannot return home. Perhaps as a warmup for whatever President replaces him to do so (abduction, torture, etc) to everyday Americans instead of just a Canadian... speaking of which he has ordered the assassination of an American citizen that advocates attacking American government and military facilities no matter how far away from any battlefield.

I just stumbled on this but apparently Americas most trusted news man even weighs in on it. (unrelated: apparently this forum destroys links if an apostrophe is used in the hyperlink description part) Link for people who can watch the American broadcast.

Obama is no communist, but he's just part of a long line of deeper evil. As Mytical said about what would happen if you marched on Washington to fight back against what's really happening instead of being in a march taken over by one of the mainstream (part of the system) parties.

Edit: Geez listen to me. I sound like a conspiracy theorist. But I'm just writing what I see by looking at the two sides and working it out.

If you vote out Obama, you just get Fake Christian Obama 2.0 with a sprinkle of tax cuts on top of debt explosion.

edit2: fixed a link
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


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posted June 17, 2010 12:46 AM

From a Western European point of view, Obama is a dark blue liberal democrat.  That's more to the right end of the political scale than to the middle.

Just because you know it's a fact that cats have tails, doesn't mean you can label every animal with a tail as a cat.

Bush was a conservative nationalist and far more right than Obama, but that doesn't make Obama a socialist, let alone a communist!

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted June 17, 2010 01:10 AM

Quote:
From a Western European point of view, Obama is a dark blue liberal democrat.
Is Western Europe really that far gone?
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted June 17, 2010 01:19 AM

Quote:
Ayers blew up statues while nobody was around, he was a vandal and arsonist but not a murderer like some lazy people who don't know how to google might say.


Unfortunately it appears you have not watched the vidoes I have linked to.

An FBI agent infiltrated the group and told of Ayers planning the bombs. The agent objected to Ayers that a nearby restraunt would be damaged far more than his target and people might be killed. Ayers said (basicly) "Oh, well, innocent people die in a revolution."  

Ayers was also in favor of "reeducation camps" in the event that they managed to overthrow the government and in favor of killing everyone who would not embrace communism.

Sorry, your portrayal of Ayers as a vandal is laughable and an insult to everyone who died or was injured because of his communist group. Bombs are not cans of spray paint.

Also, Ayers was the founder of Weatherman Underground ( a self-described communist revolutionary group) and the WU DID kill people. The only reason Ayers was not put away in prison was because of an illegal wire tap, not becaue he was not a communist terrorist.

On 9/11 Ayers also said he did not regret setting bombs and wished he had done more and would not rule out setting bombs in the future. The doors of his office are still decorated with communist propaganda.

As the founder of the Weatherman Underground and the person with the most authority in the organization I believe him to be responsible for every act of terror they committed, including all the people they killed and injured.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169

Quote:
Born in 1944, Bill Ayers, along with his wife Bernardine Dohrn, was a 1960s leader of the homegrown terrorist group Weatherman, a Communist-driven splinter faction of Students for a Democratic Society. Characterizing Weatherman as "an American Red Army," Ayers summed up the organization's ideology as follows: "Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents."

Today Ayers is a professor of education and a Senior University Scholar at the University of Illinois, where, as of October 2008, his office door was adorned with photographs of Mumia Abu-Jamal, Che Guevara and Malcolm X.

Ayers was an active participant in Weatherman's 1969 "Days of Rage" riots in Chicago, where nearly 300 members of the organization employed guerrilla-style tactics to viciously attack police officers and civilians alike, and to destroy massive amounts of property via vandalism and arson; their objective was to further spread their anti-war, anti-American message. Reminiscing on those riots, Ayers says pridefully: "We'd ... proven that it was possible -- we didn't all die, we were still there."

In his 2001 book Fugitive Days, Ayers recounts his life as a Sixties radical and boasts that he "participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972." Of the day he bombed the Pentagon, Ayers writes, "Everything was absolutely ideal.... The sky was blue. The birds were singing. And the snows were finally going to get what was coming to them." He adds:

"There's something about a good bomb … Night after night, day after day, each majestic scene I witnessed was so terrible and so unexpected that no city would ever again stand innocently fixed in my mind. Big buildings and wide streets, cement and steel were no longer permanent. They, too, were fragile and destructible. A torch, a bomb, a strong enough wind, and they, too, would come undone or get knocked down."

In a 2001 interview, Ayers expressed his enduring hatred for the United States. "What a country," he said. "It makes me want to puke."

All told, Ayers and Weatherman were responsible for 30 bombings aimed at destroying the defense and security infrastructures of the U.S.  "I don't regret setting bombs," said Ayers in 2001, "I feel we didn't do enough."

In 1970, Ayers' then-girlfriend Diana Oughton, along with Weatherman members Terry Robbins and Ted Gold, were killed when a bomb they were constructing exploded unexpectedly. That bomb had been intended for detonation at a dance that was to be attended by army soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Hundreds of lives could have been lost had the plan been successfully executed. Ayers attested that the bomb would have done serious damage, "tearing through windows and walls and, yes, people too."

After the death of his girlfriend, Ayers and his current wife, Bernardine Dohrn, spent the 1970s as fugitives running from the FBI.

In 1974 Ayers co-authored -- along with Dohrn, Jeff Jones, and Celia Sojourn -- a book titled Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-Imperialism. This book contained the following statements:

"We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men ... deeply affected by the historic events of our time in the struggle against U.S. imperialism."

"Our intention is to disrupt the empire, to incapacitate it, to put pressure on the cracks, to make it hard to carry out its bloody functioning against the people of the world, to join the world struggle, to attack from the inside."

"The only path to the final defeat of imperialism and the building of socialism is revolutionary war."

"Revolutionary war will be complicated and protracted. It includes mass struggle and clandestine struggle, peaceful and violent, political and economic, cultural and military, where all forms are developed in harmony with the armed struggle."

"Without mass struggle there can be no revolution.
Without armed struggle there can be no victory."

"We need a revolutionary communist party in order to lead the struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society."

"Our job is to tap the discontent seething in many sectors of the population, to find allies everywhere people are hungry or angry, to mobilize poor and working people against imperialism."

"Socialism is the total opposite of capitalism/imperialism. It is the rejection of empire and white supremacy. Socialism is the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the eradication of the social system based on profit."

The title Prairie Fire was an allusion to Mao Zedong's observation (in a January 1930 letter) that "a single spark can start a prairie fire." Ayers' book was dedicated to a bevy of violent, America-hating revolutionaries, including Sirhan Sirhan (assassin of Robert F. Kennedy).

In 1980 Ayers and Dohrn surrendered to law-enforcement authorities, but all charges against them were later dropped due to an "improper surveillance" technicality -- government authorities had failed to get a warrant for some of their surveillance. Ayers' comment on his life, as reported by Peter Collier and David Horowitz in their authoritative chapter on Weatherman in Destructive Generation, was this: "Guilty as sin, free as a bird, America is a great country."  

Notwithstanding his violent past, Ayers today does not describe himself as a terrorist. "Terrorists destroy randomly," he reasons, "while our actions bore ... the precise stamp of a cut diamond. Terrorists intimidate, while we aimed only to educate."

In Fugitive Days, Ayers reflects on whether or not he might use bombs against the U.S. in the future. "I can't imagine entirely dismissing the possibility," he writes.

In the mid-1990s, Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn hosted meetings at their Chicago home to introduce Barack Obama to their neighbors during his first run for the Illinois Senate.

There is strong evidence suggesting that Ayers wrote Dreams from My Father, Barack Obama's 1995 memoir. In October 2009, conservative blogger Anne Leary reported that Ayers had personally told her that he was the book's author.

In 1995 Ayers -- whose stated educational objective is to "teach against oppression" as embodied in "America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation" -- founded a "school reform organization" called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). He appointed Obama as the group's first chairman.

When National Review Online writer Stanley Kurtz in 2008 reviewed the CAC archives at the Richard J. Daley Library at the University of Illinois, he found that Ayers had been one of five members of a working group that assembled the initial CAC board which hired Obama.

"Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit," Kurtz wrote. "No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval." According to Kurtz, the CAC archives show that Obama and Ayers worked as a team to advance the foundation's agenda -- with Obama responsible for fiscal matters while Ayers focused on shaping educational policy. The archived documents further reveal that Ayers served as an ex-officio member of the board that Obama chaired through CAC's first year; that Ayers served with Obama on the CAC governance committee; and that Ayers worked with Obama to write CAC's bylaws.

A September 2008 WorldNetDaily report offers still more details: "Ayers made presentations to board meetings chaired by Obama. Ayers also spoke for the Chicago School Reform Collaborative before Obama's board, while Obama periodically spoke for the board at meetings of the collaborative … According to the documents, the CAC granted money to far-leftist causes, such as the radical Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which …has done work on behalf of Obama's presidential campaign."

WorldNetDaily reports further that "while Obama chaired the board of the CAC, more than $600,000 was granted to an organization founded by Ayers and run by Mike Klonsky, a former top communist activist. Klonsky was leader of the Marxist-Leninist Communist Party, which was effectively recognized by China as the all-but-official U.S. Maoist party."

In 1999 Ayers joined the Woods Fund of Chicago, where he served as a director alongside Barack Obama until the latter left the Woods board in December 2002. Ayers went on to become Woods' Chairman of the Board. In 2002 the Woods Fund made a grant to Northwestern University Law School's Children and Family Justice Center, where Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, was employed.

At a 2007 reunion of former members of the Weather Underground and Students for a Democratic Society, Ayers painted a verbal portrait of life in the United States which included the following passages:

"This is a time not only of great stress and oppression and authoritarianism, and a kind of rising incipient American form of fascism, and what the government counts on, what the powerful count on, is that we will stay quiet. It's the idea that we can tolerate these intolerable things without screaming, without somehow coming out, joining up and coming out and saying something. It's what they count on in terms of keeping things under control."

"Empire resurrected and unapologetic, war without end, an undefined enemy that's supposed to be a rallying point for a new kind of energized jingoistic patriotism, unprecedented and unapologetic military expansion, white supremacy changing its form, but essentially intact, attacks on women and girls, violent attacks, growing surveillance in every sphere of our lives, on and on and on, the targeting of gay and lesbian people as a kind of a scapegoating gesture to keep our minds off of what's really happening."
And here is how Ayers characterized himself and the longtime radical comrades to whom he was speaking:

"Even though we think of ourselves as political, we weren't politicians. We were people who had a moral vision of what was possible. And when we talk, for example, about health care, about peace, we're talking a language of ethics, not a language of instrumentalism or opportunism, or what we might get. So we have to speak in a language that's large and generous and encompassing. And then we have to act."

In December 2009, Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn were among the 1,300 American and European activists who traveled to the Egypt-Gaza border to participate in a pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel demonstration led by Code Pink.

Today Ayers sits on the board of the Miranda International Center, a Venezuelan government think tank dedicated to bringing Cuba-style education to Venezuelan schools. Ayers is a great admirer of Venezuela's Marxist President, Hugo Chavez.

Ayers and Dorhn have three children. One is named Malik (the Muslim name of Malcolm X), and another is named Zayd (after Zayd Shakur, a Black Panther killed while driving the cop-killer JoAnne Chesimard -- a.k.a. Assata Shakur -- to a hideout).

Ayers and Dohrn also raised Chesa Boudin because his natural parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were serving lengthy prison sentences for their roles in the Brinks murders, a joint Weatherman and Black Liberation Army operation in which two police officers and an armed guard were killed. Unlike Ayers, Dohrn actually spent time in prison as a result of their terrorist activities — a contempt citation for refusing to honor a grand jury subpoena in the Brinks investigation.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 17, 2010 01:56 AM

Please.

It looks like no one understands the "redistribution of wealth" stuff, so let's give it one more try.

The US have a public deficit of roundabout 12.5 TRILLION bucks these days (rising as we talk). Taxes bring in about 2.5 trillion each year.
Now, TAXES, are supposed to be used for the good of the whole country, not as a means of redistribution of wealth, as someone put it so eloquently.
However, if you start spending the budget by paying upwards of one tenth of that for debt interest, you ARE already redistributing wealth - you hand over a significant part of the money that is supposed to be used for the good of the whole country to those who HAVE, and big time.
That's not exactly communist or Marxist, isn't it? Handing over a sizable part of the nation's wealth to the money lenders?

What about the nearly 700 billion bucks for the Def Dep? What about the redistribution of wealth coming with that one? Obama increased Def spending, but it's not like the money is spent for common soldier salaries, right? It's more like redistributing wealth from the tax payer to Lockheed Martin and others.
To phrase that differently: how communist and Marxist is that 685 billion dollar budget for military purposes? It means, that every American is paying up 200 bucks each month for the fun of their nation warring in Iraq.

Those two positions of the budget alone are upwards of ONE TRILLION dollars per year, and it's quite obviously a major redistribution of wealth - but as obviously into the wrong direction.

Now, just to put the figures into the right proportion: if you assume 20 million US Americans might be the prime target of a COMMUNIST redistribution of wealth - that is, stealing from those who have and giving to those who have not, as this is described - how much is 1 trillion divided by 20 million?

No, you did not found a nil too many: 50.000.

50.000 bucks a year.

Which is the comparison: The ACTUAL redistribution of wealth taking place already before any public expenditures occur compared with what WOULD BE a major redistribution of wealth in a communist direction.

If you don't like the example, just widen the redistribution: make it the HUNDRED million poorest Americans and hand them 10.000 bucks a year. And if you want it even more just, fill up everyone's purse with that trillion, so that everyone reaches that amount of money. To throw a figure around, that might lead to everyone having at least something like, well, 15, 20thousand bucks a year.

Something like that WOULD BE a redistribution of wealth in a communist direction - but this won't happen, whether Obama has portraits of Marx, Engels and Lenin on his bedside table or not.

What is happening instead is a redistribution that way, that the poor are getting poorer and the rich richer, and you can see that on every table that lists who has what and what percentage of the people has which percentage of wealth.


Bottom line: this thread is a laugh.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted June 17, 2010 02:53 AM

@JJ
Quote:

Bottom line: this thread is a laugh.


Yes, the US has massive debts, thanks to Marxists in positions of power. But this is not a thread to discuss the merits of socialism. There is another thread called "What's wrong with socialism?" or something like that. This thread is about Obama's link to communism, so let us try to keep on topic.

Also, you are not required to participate in every thread in the OSM. If you think a thread does not have merit then simply avoid that thread.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted June 17, 2010 03:06 AM

JJ:
I agree almost entirely with that analysis, except the last part - the rich and poor are both getting richer. The poor today would laugh at the standard of living 50 years ago, and it's a significant improvement over even 20 years ago.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 17, 2010 04:17 AM

Mvass, that's a matter of perspective.
You might say that both is right; with simplified numbers it would be this way:

X years ago 10% of the population owned 90% of the wealth.
Now 8% of the population own 92%.
However, the 8% owned by 92% NOW is absolutely spoken more than the 10% owned by 90% X years ago, generally spoken, but that is of course even more true for the other part of the equation: the 92% owned by the 8%.

You see, MV, it doesn't matter whether, for example, electronics have become very cheap compared to 20 or 30 years ago - that's irrelevant.

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bixie
bixie


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my common sense is tingling!
posted June 17, 2010 04:43 AM

well, Elodin... who paid for the wars in Iraq and afghanistan? It certainly wasn't the american people, as there were huge tax cuts underneath W. Bush.
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Shyranis
Shyranis

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posted June 19, 2010 10:44 AM
Edited by Shyranis at 11:03, 19 Jun 2010.

Quote:
@JJ
Quote:

Bottom line: this thread is a laugh.


Yes, the US has massive debts, thanks to Marxists in positions of power.


Perhaps that is the case, but if it is then the Marxists are in both parties as they are equally responsible for this explosion.

Also, seems the weathermen were possibly, though not confirmed may have killed a single police officer and killed a bunch of their own people when an explosion went off too early.

I suppose you are right, he should be arrested at least for the manslaughter of his own people and if there is actually a proven case in a court of law, arrested for that officer's death. Hm... upon further research it seems there is a still to be proven link about the other three victims mentioned at the bottom of your quote.

No organizational head should be able to hide from the actions they have caused directly or indirectly. Just as the head of Haliburton should be jailed for shielding rapists and locking up rape victims. Murder and rape are no laughing matter.

Even if they can't be proven responsible in a court of law though, doesn't God get the last laugh? We could always take comfort in that.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted June 19, 2010 12:22 PM

JJ:
It's better to have 8% of a lot than 10% of a little.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted June 19, 2010 04:04 PM

That would be a point only, if there was a connection between one and the other; if concentration of wealth in ever less hands was the price of ever increasing wealth for everyone.

If there WAS such a connection, it was point.

There is none, however. No causal connection. So there you have no point either.

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Baklava
Baklava


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posted June 20, 2010 01:09 AM

JJ is finally right about something other than music taste.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted June 20, 2010 02:09 AM

JJ:
Wealth redistribution reduces net wealth, as it reduces the incentive to produce for both the rich (because they get less money) and the poor (because they get money for free). The result is clear.
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