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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter This thread is 51 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 29 30 31 32 33 ... 40 50 51 · «PREV / NEXT»
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 02, 2012 04:57 PM bonus applied by angelito on 02 Mar 2012.

Master Learn, thanks again for your support.  Salamandre also deserves your thanks for this topic, although I am sure you have thanked him also elsewhere.

I have 15 more addresses added to PrimarySkillsPatch.txt, as well as to the script listed on page 28 (updated), which is in the current maps for TDS v2.07J and 2.07Dr (at http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e).  Four of those addresses fix the Den of Thieves display, and the others were found in other tests of an AI Hero.

This is another, ongoing example of evolution in action.  In my experience as a design engineer, nothing of any significance is perfect on the first try.  Ideas first evolve in our minds, and then more as they are put into practice, and there is always room for further improvement.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 06, 2012 04:57 PM

Offence

JimV,for my curiosity-what damage level >100 offence specialist (which Hulk is supposed to be when trained enough and if offence is not negated by something)does to the enemy(enemy as neutrals or the other main 7 heroes)?

And if level 100 offence specialist meets level 100 armorer specialist what should happen?
(I recently understood that the armorer specialist takes 1dmg from random enemy number stack)


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 06, 2012 06:49 PM

Armorer specialist wins.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted March 06, 2012 06:52 PM

Offense and Armorer are not contradictory. Offense multiplies damage by (1 + offense), while Armorer multiplies by (1 - armorer). When armorer ability reaches 100%, you multiply always by 0.
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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 06, 2012 07:33 PM

Thanks

Thank you,Warmonger,Salamandre for your explanation!
Now I know better.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2012 11:04 PM
Edited by JimV at 03:52, 13 Mar 2012.

Expanding on what Warmonger said slightly, from the Heroes III manual:

Expert Offense:  increases the damage done by 30%.

Expert Armorer:  decreases the damage done by 15%.

Offense Specialty:  increases the effect of Offense skill by 5% per level.

Armorer Specialty:  increases the effect of Armorer skill by 5% per level.

So at Hero level 100, the effect is increased by 500%, so 30% becomes 180% and 15% becomes 90%, and an Offense specialist would do (1+1.8)*(1-.9) damage against an Armorer specialist, or 28% damage.  Of course the relative size and Attack vs. Defense and Damage attributes of the troops would determine the base amount which would be multiplied by 0.28.

Assuming both attacker and defender had both expert Offense and expert Armorer skills, the Armorer specialist would do (1+.3)*(1-.15) or 110.5% damage against the Offense specialist, so of course Salamandre is correct.

As you know, the Hulk's Offense specialty has been modified by the Specialty Boost script so he has a 50% (if I recall correctly) increase to his (Expert) Offense skill at all levels.  In most maps that would be more valuable than the standard effect, but I am not sure it is in TDS - although perhaps the greatest difficulty is at the start of the game, when the Hulk is at low levels.

If I gave the Hulk the standard specialty but at 50% per level, at 100  his bonus would be 51*.3 = 15.3, so against a normal level 100 Armorer specialist he would do 15.3*0.1 = 153% damage - about 38% more than the Armorer specialist would do against his troops, all else being equal.  The angrier the Hulk gets the stronger he gets, so perhaps he should also get another bonus for every two rounds of battle ... (not in TDS, but perhaps in "Hulk's Humongous Adventure").

Edit - the previous version incorrectly used a 15% bonus for Expert Offense rather than 30% - sorry.

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daoanhanhdung
daoanhanhdung

Tavern Dweller
posted March 07, 2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

If I gave the Hulk the standard specialty but at 50% per level, at 100  his bonus would be 51*.15 = 7.65, so against a normal level 100 Armorer specialist he would do 8.65*0.1 = 86.5% damage - still not as much as the Armorer specialist would do against his troops, all else being equal.


I wonder if you have an intention to release a HULK's new version in TSD, JimV?

I need to tell you something,JimV:
I have been playing TSD for such a long time; of course all the "so far" released versions as well. To be frank, I'm quite a big fan of HULK. I did play one of the versions, I can not memorize right now, in which HULK had the two automatically-designed henchmen. But i think, this was one of the most awesome versions I'd ever played for TSD.

Hopefully one day I will have a opportunity to play a HULK's new version in TSD.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 07, 2012 08:07 AM
Edited by master_learn at 08:19, 07 Mar 2012.

Support

Thank you for your detailed answer,JimV!
Maybe I should read the Manual to refresh my Heroes knowledge.

Now as you see,other players than me begin to show interest in Hulks version!

Is the Hulk's Humongous Adventure map in process of making(yours?) or existing map?

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2012 06:40 PM

Daoanhanhdung and Master_Learn, thank you for your comments.  As you know, I changed the Hulk's bonus from two automatic Henchmen (first and second) to something else, because of a problem with the Second Henchman's experience levels, which has since been fixed.  So I could go back to the original bonus (if I can recall how it was done), if you prefer that to the current one.

Other than that change, the other possibility I can think of, is to do a "Super Hulk", similar to the Super Doctor in v2.07Dr.  My personal motivation for that would be my interest in exploring the special effects which can be obtained using ERM - most of my own maps were motivated by that - rather than any feeling that this would be any improvement from a player's point of view.

"Hulk's Humongous Adventure" is an idea I have long had for a map, based on Marvel Comics characters.  Some of the Heroes 3 creatures resemble those characters:  Thor - Titan; The Human Torch - Fire Elemental; The Thing - Magma Elemental; The Silver Surfer - Air Messenger; The Wasp - Sprite; Galactacus - Emissary of Peace; and others.  The only problem is, I am not a good enough map-maker to make a map which would look interesting to players.  The map (terrain, landscape objects) is the hardest part for me.  I started a map, but have not worked on it for a long time.  Probably it will never happen, but thank you for your interest.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 07, 2012 06:51 PM

You could take TDS, delete all scripts and implement your ideas in. The map seems to be designed for long single quest anyway. I've seen often such conversions in chinese forums, they take an already done map then change concepts inside.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 07, 2012 07:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestion Salamandre, but I would feel uncomfortable using someone else's map - although if it were "Alexander the Great", I might be able to overcome that scruple.  (Probably not even then, though.)

I just thought of another character based on Marvel, The Invisible Girl, but I might change her to "Ann Odam, the Immaterial Girl".  (Ann Odam being Madonna spelled backwards.)  She would turn invisible at the start of a battle, and be able to cast Force Field.

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daoanhanhdung
daoanhanhdung

Tavern Dweller
posted March 12, 2012 07:22 AM
Edited by daoanhanhdung at 07:27, 12 Mar 2012.

Quote:
Daoanhanhdung and Master_Learn, thank you for your comments.  As you know, I changed the Hulk's bonus from two automatic Henchmen (first and second) to something else, because of a problem with the Second Henchman's experience levels, which has since been fixed.  So I could go back to the original bonus (if I can recall how it was done), if you prefer that to the current one.


This is a demonstration on how strong armor specialist is.
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

I am in Month 5, Week 3, Day 4. I have so far completed a couple of the quests, I have got the sword of light as well.
However, no way to defeat Ronald's army.

Btw, Azreal is one of the most easiest heroes to play, I think.

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daoanhanhdung
daoanhanhdung

Tavern Dweller
posted March 12, 2012 09:46 AM
Edited by daoanhanhdung at 09:48, 12 Mar 2012.

Quote:
So I could go back to the original bonus (if I can recall how it was done), if you prefer that to the current one.

Would you mind releasing the above-mentioned version?
I wonder if the Hulk's strength is unimaginable?

However, Orrin's has been positive.
I'm in Month 3, Week 4, Day 4.


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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted March 12, 2012 11:05 AM

Example

daoanhanhdung,I didnt quite understand your example.

Much time I have tried with the 8 colours to get water walk,so I completely forgot what army Ronald has and what he is specialist in.

I suppose this is him with his army and he has the armorer specialty.

But from the preview you give I see the text below about shooting the Lords of thunder can make 1-4 damage.
So if the catapult(who can shoot) can make 4 dmg to the Lords-thats ordinary catapult-than the example is not that impressive.

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daoanhanhdung
daoanhanhdung

Tavern Dweller
posted March 12, 2012 03:09 PM
Edited by daoanhanhdung at 03:59, 13 Mar 2012.

Quote:
daoanhanhdung,I didnt quite understand your example.

Much time I have tried with the 8 colours to get water walk,so I completely forgot what army Ronald has and what he is specialist in.

I suppose this is him with his army and he has the armorer specialty.

But from the preview you give I see the text below about shooting the Lords of thunder can make 1-4 damage.
So if the catapult(who can shoot) can make 4 dmg to the Lords-thats ordinary catapult-than the example is not that impressive.


you are right. It was Ronald with his army. His special ability is armor.
I suppose you probably guess the result of the above battle.
To be more precise, Ronald is undefeatable even though my Dread Knights has been well-upgraded. In other words, Armorer specialist is outstanding.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 12, 2012 07:28 PM
Edited by JimV at 03:56, 13 Mar 2012.

I have been testing the Hulk's Offense skill before releasing an update for him.  I have more work to do, so the update will not be made today.  So far I think I have learned this:

1. Woodmelon started with the WoG Hero Specialty Boost (script48), but that script does not include a boost for the Offense skill, so he added one.  The comments for the addition state that it gives 10%/30%/50% instead of the normal 10%/20%/30%.

2. Previously I had found in tests with the Doctor that applying the Specialty Boost to Sorcery negates the Doctor's Sorcery Specialty - that is, he doesn't get a 5% improvement per level with the boosted abilities.  This also seems to be true for the Hulk's Offense.

3. However, the Doctor was getting the boosts claimed by the WoG script, but the Hulk does not seem to be getting the boosts claimed by Woodmelon's script.  In my tests so far, the Hulk seems to get about a 15% bonus (actual amounts range from 11% to 19%) for Advanced Offense, and 25% for Expert Offense (with no change from level 1 to level 10).  Calculating might damage is more complicated than calculating magic damage, though, so perhaps I am missing something.

Before making an update, I would like to understand this better, and then decide what to do.  (In the case of the Doctor, for version 2.07J I removed the Doctor's Sorcery Skill Boost, so his Sorcery Specialty would work; v2.07E has the original condition.)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 13, 2012 05:02 PM

I found another issue to the "display skills up to 125" patch. If we are attacked by AI and have stats >99, on our turn (next), stats are downgraded to 99.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 13, 2012 06:55 PM

There must be something else happening, because so far I can't reproduce that in a test map (three attacks by an AI Hero).  In each case my Hero had all four Primary Skills above 100, got a level promotion after the battle which increased one skill by one, and kept all the others the same.  I am testing in WoG 3.58f.  I won all three battles - maybe I have to lose.  Or maybe there is some spell which the AI has to cast, or it depends on the creatures used.  Anyway, more information is needed - I must be able to reproduce the event in order to find patches for it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 13, 2012 08:07 PM

I don't know, my hero did not gain any level after battle. Just noticed stats are at 99 after battle, reloaded before and they were around 102. Strange.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted March 13, 2012 09:50 PM

I have tried more tests under Era 1.8, and have not seen it happen, so something is different about our battles.  Are you using any battle scripts which affect Hero Primary Skills?

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