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TheGodLoki
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 24, 2011 11:21 AM |
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It's at 132,36,1. The event in the map editor says it gives 99,999,999 experience, but when I go there I get 115 mil every time. My 2nd hero went there and got 110 mil xp the first time and 115 mil every visit after that.
I visited the towers in the 4 corners and when I visited the last one it sent me to my home area and changed my stats to 0,0,1,1 even though I was wearing the full (Celestial armor?) set.
I then went to the town at 24,40,0 and I get WOG errors at the start of the battle.
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songfx
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 24, 2011 01:11 PM |
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Quote:
excessive leveling sounds easy to fix:
!#UN:J1/120/?v1; set maximum hero level for this map to 120
I tried this in a test map, and it worked there. In practice, this actually stopped at 108 in my tests. Things start to go uphill rapidly after 108.
Will the stack's experience become negative after the script is added ? As I know, it happens in some maps where heroes' level are limited.
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Chinese WOG Forum
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 24, 2011 01:30 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 05:47, 06 Jul 2011.
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@TGL,
Good job being more specific about problems. I haven't played the map through to a conclusion (I'm playing as The Doctor with a nephew, but we only get to play for an hour every other week), so unless I get specific details I don't know what people are talking about.
Each character has a different story, but they are all supposed to fit together like a Campaign, so only one can be the overall winner (Lord Haart). Being evil and icky, Necromancers find out that in the end, that doesn't pay well.
The WoG error isn't part of that though. It sounds like the same problem reported earlier in this thread, which can be patched if you post a saved game somewhere where I can download it. In the previous case, I guessed it had something to do with running under ERA instead of WoG 3.58f, but in hindsight, that might also be a variation of the problem Salamandre reported for Lord Haart (having a catapult cannon which is hit in the first round without Tactics). Lord Haart has the cannon automatically, but I think the War Machines script gives one to Heroes with Expert Ballistics or maybe Artillery. It doesn't happen to everyone, which would fit the hypothesis if people who don't have the problem have Tactics or don't have War Machines.
@Songfx,
Thanks for the tip. If it happens in TDS, use the Creature/Hero Experience Checker script (see Help Menu). It will restore a Hero with negative experience to level 50, and creatures with negative experience to level 10. This did not happen in my test map. I had a Hero visit an object to get level 100 experience points (~2.073 billion), then another object which added 10 million experience. After the third visit to the latter object, a big jump in levels happens without the HEL in effect, but with the HEL set at 120, the promotions stopped at 108. Standard disclaimer: Heroes was not designed or tested for such high levels.
P.S. I got an invitation yesterday to a niece's High School graduation 180 miles from here tomorrow morning, so I'll be busy for a while, but when I get time I'll look at the experience-adding event and probably script it to set a fixed level, say 100, rather than adding a fixed amount - unless someone has a better idea. I will probably also make all the leaders of human players start with Basic Tactics, unless I get a saved game which gives me more information and other ideas.
P.P.S. In the meantime, if the hypothesis seems to fit, try installing Salamandre's SMCATA.def.
Edit, July 5, 2011:
I have another bug report myself. While playing as Orrin, with Expert First Aid, I found that if the First Aid Tent revives some creatures after a battle, the check for negative experience does not work on that stack - similar to the problem with Pacification. After some experimentation, I found a way to fix this in the Experience Check script, and have put the revised script into the maps at box.net. The TDS zip file there also includes a .wog file to add Salamandre's SMCATA DEF.
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nevter
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 18, 2011 10:59 PM |
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Edited by nevter at 00:09, 19 Jul 2011.
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Quote:
This change has been added to the maps at:
http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e
Hmm after first fight on this maps files you posted i get 100lvl after each fight >< (on J version)
got a clean wog folder and checked few times
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 19, 2011 01:04 AM |
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Remove the !#UN:J1/120/?v1; from creature/hero experience overflow script or limit it at 99. ERM can't handle 3 digits there, it seems. Or maybe ERA...
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2011 02:12 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 03:54, 19 Jul 2011.
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Nevter, I apologize for the inconvenience which this problem caused you, and thank you for the notice.
I again learned something new about ERM as a result. The UN:J1 command (which sets a maximum Hero level) causes negative experience after a battle for certain values of the maximum level. This in turn causes the Experience Overflow Checker script to set the Hero to level 100. Setting the Hero's experience via ERM, as I did in my test map, does not have this affect. So far, by experiment, I have determined that level 100 works (but this seems restrictive, in this map), 120 (which I had used) does not, nor does 108. However, 132 seems to, so far (two battles at the start of a game, gaining one level).
The UN:J1 command was added recently to prevent a very long sequence of hundreds or thousands of levels which certain high experience values can cause, but in fixing that problem I created a new one. Which I hope is now also fixed, in the new versions which are uploaded at box.net.
I won't know for sure until someone plays the current version up to a high Hero level via battles, unfortunately. If someone finds a new problem at some high level after long play, I will try to fix their saved game so they can continue, perhaps by resetting the maximum level to 100 or below. This map takes us into a range of numbers which Heroes III was not designed or tested for, but reducing the maximum level to a more normal value (<100) would eliminate some features of the map, which I am reluctant to do.
Edit: I saw Salamadre's reply after posting mine. I think the problem has something to do with the internal formula which Heroes uses to calculate experience points versus level - which we know exhibits strange behavior after level 100. When I tried different values of maximum level (120, 108) I got different values of negative experience after the first battle. This gave me a hint that 132 might give a high positive value which would not cause a premature limit to a Hero's level, as the other two values did. I will investigate this further.
P.S. I might as well clear up one mystery from a previous comment. The event which is set to give 100 million experience in the Map Editor will give 115 million when the Hero has expert Learning.
2nd Edit: Here's a test people can do at home:
ZVSE
!#UN:J1/50/?v1;
!#IF:M^Level 50 Exp = %V1^;
!#UN:J1/60/?v1;
!#IF:M^Level 60 Exp = %V1^;
(etc.)
The experience values vs. level which I get from this do not match the table in ERM Help, and seem to be off by about 10 levels (but not exactly). The last positive value before the series goes negative is 1,867,873,574 at level 85. After that, the values fluctuate between negative and positive.
At 100: -2,054,476,676 (gives normal Hero exp. after battles 1 & 2)
At 108: 2,087,436,333 (gives negative Hero exp. after battle 1)
At 120: 2,116,494,086 (gives negative Hero exp. after battle 1)
at 132: -2,145,106,147 (gives normal Hero exp. after battles 1 & 2)
The maximum positive 4-byte integer is 2^31 -1 = 2,147,483,647. The smallest negative number is -2,147,483,648 (farthest from zero).
Tentative conclusions:
Heroes III or WoG might have problems after level 85 - proceed above that at your own risk (but several maps do).
Setting the maximum level to a value which produces a negative number seems to work, at high levels. This is the opposite of what I expected. (We know setting a low level in the Map Editor works.) It might just be a bug in the UN:J1 command - but the UN:J1 command does prevent long sequences of consecutive levels, in my tests.
Given that a negative output from the UN:J1 experience point calculation seems to be required, my intuition suggests the more negative the number, the higher the experience at which it will continue to work. So I am sticking with the 132 maximum level, for now. (It also works in my previous test map.)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 19, 2011 03:50 AM |
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2011 05:50 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 09:30, 19 Jul 2011.
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Two things which I forgot to mention:
This was undoubtedly the problem that Songfx was trying to warn me about, but as usual without details my understanding floundered.
Since the experience point values output by the UN:J1 seem about 10 levels too high, it might be that the Heroes III formula was designed for a maximum level of 75, rather than the 85 which I suggested above. This is also suggested by the table (Format HL) in ERM Help. After 75, levels jump to 88 (in my experience), and then to 100 - so the experience-vs.-level formula does not seem to be working smoothly after 75. In playing all the maps on the original CD's, I don't recall ever getting to level 40.
Edit: whoops, I did it again (after further testing, updated the maps at the box.net link). As Feynman said, the main thing in science is not to fool yourself, because you are the easiest one to fool. In other words, you want to think you have found the complete solution when you haven't.
It turns out, I now believe, that the ERM command UN:J1 is useless, and will not stop excessive leveling (I fooled myself about that previously). I have learned several other things which won't stop leveling, but negative results are usually not publishable, so I will just mention one which does.
Background: as many of you know, levels work smoothly up to 75, then the next level jumps to 88 (passing through 76, 77, etc., but not stopping until 88 is reached). The next level after that goes to 100, similarly (89, 90, ..., 100), then to 108, then all the way to 868, which is as far as I have tested. To prevent that long set of levels from 108 to 868 (and subsequent even longer ones):
!?HM-1;
!!HE-1:E?v1/?v2;
!!FU&v2<108:E;
!!HE-1:E2073739175/100;
That is, at the next Hero movement, check to see if the Hero has reached 108, and if so, drop the Hero back to 100. From then on, the Hero's levels will cycle between 100 and 108 (if the Hero continues to get a lot of experience points).
I have added this code to the Creature/Hero Experience Check script in both map versions and re-uploaded the TDS.rar package to box.net.
(Naturally I only found these things out after Salamandre had already added the last version to the main post, for which I apologize.)
What does this mean for the people who may have downloaded the previous version over the last few hours (if any)? They are no worse off, but no better either, than those who played versions prior to the previous revision, going back to the Chinese original. That is, if they reach another level after 108, they will either have to hit Enter 760 times or use Ctrl-Alt-Delete to stop the program. If they don't use the Experience Event past level 88 or perhaps 100, they probably will not encounter this problem.
I can add this code to saved games on a case-by-case basis, if someone does encounter the leveling problem in a previous version.
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nevter
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 19, 2011 01:42 PM |
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new bug
after each battle im getting spell points
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2011 07:01 PM |
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Nevter,
Thanks again and apologies again. I checked and found an interference in script variables which I believe was causing the spell point glitch. (The glitch no longer happens on my system now that I have fixed the interference.) Another revised TDS package has been uploaded to:
http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e
In checking the "E" version of the map for this glitch I noticed that it does not give the plot dialogs nor the starting menu of options (the two checkboxes with items such as "Building Twice Per Day in Towns). Now I am wondering if this is something I did accidentally somehow, or was an intentional revision by Salamandre. Anyway, I hope this was the last change to the "J" version, but might have to post another "E" version after checking the box.net map against the the one in the main post on page 1. (I decided not to wait before uploading the J version so that you could restart with it immediately.)
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 19, 2011 07:05 PM |
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 19, 2011 07:42 PM |
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I see the main post map has a different version number, 2.07E, so I deleted 2.06E from my TDS.rar and replaced it with 2.07E - with one change to 2.07E: I replaced the old Creature/Hero Experience Overflow script with the latest one, which has some added checks and options. (I fought a couple battles at the start of 2.07E and saw no glitches.) There are some other scripts in 2.06J which could be added, such as the Dress Code script, but at this point I don't want to take a chance on screwing up the original map.
So now the package at Box.net has the latest 2.06J (same as previous upload) and 2.07E.
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nevter
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 19, 2011 08:41 PM |
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Quote:
Nevter,
In checking the "E" version of the map for this glitch I noticed that it does not give the plot dialogs nor the starting menu of options (the two checkboxes with items such as "Building Twice Per Day in Towns)
Lol and I thought it was supposed to be like that XD
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nevter
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 20, 2011 01:19 PM |
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another issue , when I want to recreate a 2nd hehchman
[url]http://i55.tinypic.com/24mi5na.jpg[/url]
or it was supposed to be like that even at low lvl?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 20, 2011 01:48 PM |
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IMHO this map truly offers an unique journey in Heroes adventures. Unfortunately the author is no longer active since 2006, so minor bugs may occur here and there, but nothing enough important to prohibit you profiting from all features and finish the game. Minor endless patching here and there may create other problems, as it is rather complex and needs full testing at each modification.
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Era II mods and utilities
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nevter
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 20, 2011 02:01 PM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 20, 2011 02:07 PM |
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My only serious problem with it is that infinite resurrection of Xarfax's second henchman (supreme archangels). Makes a rush impossible, and I am unable to modify the script.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 04:54 PM |
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I will take a look at both of those issues, which seem fixable if I can avoid making typos. I hope people will keep reporting issues, because
a) they might have been added during the translation (e.g., the Second Henchman issue might have been a mis-translation by me).
b) if fixable, they will make the experiences of future players more enjoyable.
c) the original version in the main post will not be touched, in case "the cure is worse than the disease".
I will try not to rush this time, though, so it may take a few days. Meanwhile, if you are well into a game when an issue arises, and would like it resolved without having to start over, post the saved game online and I will try to patch it there. (A single game is often easier to patch than a map.)
Thanks for the information.
Regarding the Supreme Archangel Henchman with infinite resurrections, my proposed fix would be to add a test so that Heroes of computer players never get this option - is that acceptable?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 20, 2011 05:05 PM |
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So far, only Xarfax has it, in 20+ games I never saw it elsewhere, did anyone? So I guess a Xarfax fix will be enough. Or if any chance somebody else gets it, maybe remove it totally? It is very annoying thing to see them invulnerable, I would call it serious bug.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2011 05:25 PM |
bonus applied by Cepheus on 22 Jul 2011. |
Edited by JimV at 01:53, 21 Jul 2011.
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I have beaten Xarfax with Orrin, Lord Haart, and The Doctor, as soon as I could reach him (well, maybe not quite rushes), so my guess is that it could happen randomly with any AI Hero - but I should not speculate before looking at the scripts. {Later--it is much more likely to happen with Xarfax, of course, since he always has an AA/SAA Second Henchman under an AI player, whereas other AI Heroes get a random 2H. Also, in my tests today, Xarfax never used his resurrection ability, so I guess it takes a certain set of circumstances before the AI will use it. I have always had the stronger army when I attacked Xarfax and this does not seem to trigger the 2H resurrections.]
The Second Henchman selection problem is this (in the script "Second Henchman 4"):
!!VRq&y8>y6:S0;
[set q=0 if the selected creature's HP are greater than 10 times the Hero's experience level--JV]
!!VRq|y8<=y6/y7>=50:S1;
[set q=1 if the selected creature's HP are less than or equal to 10 times the Hero's experience level, *OR* the Hero's level is greater than or equal to 50! "OR" should be "AND" - VRq| should be VRq&!--JV]
!!VRz1:S^The creature chosen for the Henchmen must meet these conditions:
1. Its natural HP must not be greater than 10 times the level of the hero.
2. If the Hero is more than level 49, the cost is 500,000 gold.^;
!!VRz2&q=0:S^Sorry, your Henchmen do not meet the first condition.^;
!!VRz2&q=1:S^You meet the 2nd condition (500,000)--will you still proceed?^;
!!IF:D91/1//2////////////;
!!IF:F91/////q;
!!IF:E1/91;
So this menu has never worked properly. I asked myself, how could millions of Chinese have played this map and never found and fixed this? Then I remembered: "The Second Henchman option was added at version 2.05" (by which time the millions of Chinese had already played it).
(Changing q| to q& in a saved game would take five minutes. Just sayin'.)
Edit, July 20, 2011, 7:04 PM EDT
Xarfax gets his special Henchmen abilities in the "<orange>Xarfax" script (of course), and I think this is where he gets infinite Second Henchman resurrections:
!?PI&v474=1;
...
(Line 257)
!!VRv7511:S1 R1;
...
!?BG0|v1004=63/v1005=63;
...
(line 350)
!!BMv7500&v7511=2/v7518=13:E3; #Spells
V7500 is the Second Henchman stack number, and v7518 is the starting creature type for Xarfax's Second Henchman. If Orange is not human, Xarfax will always have ArchAngel/Supreme Archangel as his first and second types, and will have his second type (SAA) when attacked. So half the time v7511 will be set to 2 randomly at the start of the game and Xarfax's Second Henchman will start each turn with three resurrections. Since he can only resurrect once per turn, he will never use them all up. (Setting E1 under BG0 would have worked just as well.)
I did some tests and got v7511=2 four times before getting v7511=1 once - either bad luck or my battle randomizer doesn't work well for small numbers.
Setting v7511 to 1 instead of 1R1 at line 257 will give Xarfax's Second Henchman infinite retaliations and 4 (total per battle) resurrections (2 standard for SAA and 2 additional castings).
Both these changes (q& and S1) have been made to the map files at:
http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e
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