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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 31, 2011 03:32 PM |
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It has no sense. Why a player would flag a dwelling and halve all stats only for a +31/47 castle growth, when every battle gives him thousands of them?
Catastrophic even if he already improved them at emerald towers. There is no warning message about what is going, and not everyone is saving every day. If he had not necromancy, I would understand, but who recruits ww/nightmares in towns? Also the cumulative sacrifice between ww and nm should be in help section I think. (v1100 applies to both)
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 31, 2011 06:48 PM |
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Edited by JimV at 18:49, 31 Jul 2011.
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How about this?
"the number doubles for each successive improvement (even if a different creature is improved)"
Maybe it needs more words or an example. I try to be brief because many people do not like to read long messages.
The number of creatures "risen" after a battle depends on the total hit points killed, divided by the hit points of the risen creature, so the Dwelling event will increase the number of Werewolves which Necromancy produces. It might or might not for Nightmares, because of the 500 limit.
This seems fair to me:
1) Decrease stats using the "d" method. E.g., originally the Werewolf has 35 hit points. Instead of reducing this to 8 with MA:P194/8, use MA:P194/d-27 - so Emerald Tower or Sacrifice bonuses will not be lost.
2) Give the player the option to accept the stat reduction (to get the added ability and the increased growth) or not.
It is difficult to understand another person's thinking in a complex situation such as this map and all its options. I believe Woodmelon was very brilliant, creative, and competent, but on the other hand I tend to think that anything can be improved. Even the Mona Lisa could be a bit prettier (ducks and raises shield).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 31, 2011 06:57 PM |
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Since it is in help menu (accessible only by demand) you can make a text longer, if it explains well the mechanics.
I would put a yes/no message when visiting the dwellings, and explain shortly what exactly happens. Still thinking that those two scripts bring nothing to the map from a practical side.
The problem with all Woodmelon maps is the ghost dwelling, in Chaser as well as TDS. They nullify any brilliant script research or feature. Once you have them, there is no need of anything more, game is over.
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 31, 2011 09:17 PM |
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I have updated the scripts for <green>Azrael, Azrael's Story, and Help Menu Part II, and uploaded the new map files in TDS.rar at http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e
I used the short form of the %V1100 explanation in Azrael's Story, and added an example in the Help Menu.
I found yet another misconception in revising the WW/NM script. I think Woodmelon had it right, but our translation (due I think to me) is wrong. It is an upgrade, not a downgrade. In Woodmelon's Hidden Race Fortress, the un-upgraded recruitment barracks (Gnoll's Hut) gives Werewolves with properties much reduced from their standard values. Instead of 35 HP, they have 5, and their other properties are also much smaller. When you upgrade the Gnoll's Hut, the next time you exit or enter the Fortress (the Fortress where Azrael starts is the object which triggers the script), you get the message about the change in properties which is: HP 5->8, A 5->6, D 4->5, Dm 1-3->2-5, S5->6, cost 80->100. Also you get the Double Strike at level 10. It would be possible, although perhaps unusual, to have already upgraded the Werewolves via Sacrifice, so I think our change to increments (d) rather than fixed values was worthwhile, but asking the player whether or not he wants to do this is probably not necessary - but I have done it.
The Nightmares work the same way, when you upgrade the Gorgon barracks. In standard WoG they have 110 HP, but in Azrael's Fortress then have 60 HP, which gets upgraded to 70.
I am out of things to do for now, but I am sure revisions will be necessary.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 03:15 AM |
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It seems you forgot to script the "easy start options for human". I see the option but not the code for, no effect in game. The main post being older than 1 year (by 3 days!) I need a moderator to add the last upload, but better wait to see if nothing is missing. Also in the rar there are 4 maps.( )
I don't understand all those "every round" cure animations on Gem's units. They heal no HP, useless?
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2011 05:09 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 06:52, 01 Aug 2011.
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I added a bonus for Gem and re-uploaded the file.
It has been a long time since I did any play-testing with Gem, and I have forgotten most of what I learned. I think the Cure animation is Gen's random Cure/Resurrection ability but I will have to do some testing to confirm that.
Edit/Update - There was a bonus for Gem in 2.07J, but it was applied when she triggered a Local Event, not immediately on day one. I have moved it under the day one timer. For an explanation of the random Cure spells, right-click Gem's Hero Specialty. I have added a note about this to the Gem's Story script and to the Help Menu Part II script.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 03:32 PM |
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I was looking for a money or resources bonus, my fault, those looks very good. I will ask a moderator to update the main post.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 04:24 PM |
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In last version uploaded, you forgot removing 18 000 lords of thunder from Snowing (quite big bonus for AI, isn't it?), thus the game hangs on day 5. Is there anything I should remove or look for?
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2011 05:50 PM |
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The LoT were added to make a test map, probably many revisions ago, when I wanted to get to the University in a hurry - although you tested with Azrael since then, so maybe it was for something else. Late night work is dangerous for me, but it is hard to sleep when there is some issue to be resolved. I have removed the LoT from the maps which are now on Box.Net.
In a way, I am not too sorry this happened, because it casts new light on the issue of "freezing". "Hanging" would be the more common, correct term, but ever seen I first saw it in "Ice Arrow" and called it an "Ice Freeze", I have preferred "freezing". That is, the cursor disappears, and the game stops progressing or responding to any commands, and one has to use Ctrl-Alt-Delete. For me, playing as Gem (Blue), the game froze on day 7 during Orrin's (Tan) turn. After removing the excess LoT's, I just went a month of End-Turn's without freezing, so I am inclined to blame the LoT's.
Since I learned how to edit a saved game and "unfreeze" a frozen game of "Ice Arrow", I have been sent frozen saved games of "Ice Arrow", "Dead Lift", "Dead Zealot", and "The Emperor of the World III". This caused me to generate many wild guesses as to what causes a game to freeze, including: a) "pushing the envelope" with Heroes at level 100 or above, and primary skills near 99/99/99/99; b) lots of map-editing to change the red and yellow squares of objects. Neither of those apply to this case, at least not in the first week of play. (Freezes in the other maps have happened between month six and month ten of game time.)
So I am sorry for the inconvenience, once again, but somewhat grateful to get new data on the freezing problem which I have seen elsewhere. One of my dreams is to find a way to stop freezes from ever happening in "Ice Arrow" and other maps.
Resolution: from now on, when making a test map, give it a different name. I used to do that, but have gotten lazy, as it is easier to add a few things to the original map, then delete them when I am done testing - unless I forget to.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 05:59 PM |
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Seems I have to add one thing to my freeze list:
1) Teleporters on 0 columns
2) AI with summon boat, thousand of spell points but no water skill
3) Resource overflow
4) Wrong object properties (wog only)
5) Playing more than 12 months increase the chance of freezing
6) Monsters on map not set to "not join"-AI will fullfil town garrisons with them but does not know how to create space when trying to recruit from dwellings and hangs for ever-
7) AI super strong hero (more than 20k creatures in one slot-placing them at start in several slots will not help because AI will pack them as soon as he gets new creatures-)
I experienced the last a few weeks ago in a SOD map too. Now I have confirmation for it. In last Petar map, the big boss freezed my game quite often, and I had to play it with my own cheat script (move the boss in different locations on click) to succeed.
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2011 06:26 PM |
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Thanks for the list. I have one trivial case to add: "Dead Zealot" had a freeze caused as follows. There is a Prison on water in that map (if I am remembering the right map, it might have been "Dead Lift"). An AI Hero opened the prison, leaving its Hero on water with no boat and no Water Walk spell. The game froze during that Hero's turn on the next day.
In that case and in some others I can see the AI's problem (although it could have been prevented by more rigorous programming, not that I am always rigorous myself of course), but in other cases I wonder what the AI's hangup is. I.e., why should 20,000 in one troop eliminate its ability to make a decision? Probably some number which it calculates overflows. (I can remember when 1000 Titans seemed like an impossibly enormous army.)
Oddly, I have played "Ice Arrow" myself at least twice and have never had the freeze - just lucky, I guess. Plus I finish it in a hurry because I know where everything is - that is probably the reason.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2011 06:44 PM |
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Also add:
-) AI thinking radius. Should be restored in !?GM and !?PI triggers. Short radius as in WoG leads to silly behaviour.
"Always summon boat".
!!UN:C4312082/4/-1869574000 C4312086/2/37008;
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 06:57 PM |
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You don't need that, !#UN:J4/32000 stays all the game, I did a test.
Berserker, I don't dislike the summon boat requirements. For me it makes sense to not be able without the corresponding skill to create a new boat (not only summon). It adds additional possibilities in mapmaking, not awesome but still.
Latest version added in main post, thanks Cepheus.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted August 01, 2011 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
You don't need that, !#UN:J4/32000 stays all the game, I did a test.
Till next exe run.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 01, 2011 07:30 PM |
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No, I restarted the game, reload and still 32000.
Small observation: in my actual game AI visited the emerald tower and I got one of the messages repeating over and over during its turns:
!!IF:M^{Inside the Tower} should be flagged 1000. All others are flagged.
A question: when I fight the ogres defending Force Field, there is always one of them ignoring my quick sands. Can I ask where is this done and how?
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2011 12:31 AM |
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Edited by JimV at 01:40, 02 Aug 2011.
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(Went out to see a movie and was away for five hours.)
I would have to see the battle, but my first guess is that one of the Ogres was given "fly", which is one of the common neutral creature bonuses. Unless a flier lands on quicksand, it has no effect.
I have often wondered why the WoG team reduced the AI sight radius. Maybe they were afraid the AI would spend all its time visiting all the new WoG objects. There do seem to be some very long AI turns in wogified maps with the SoD radius set, such as the wogified version of the great "Astral Venice" by Dr. Milan Cirkovic. (Perhaps it is barbaric of me to wogify it, but it is a lot of fun that way.)
Edit - the maps at http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e have been updated to add &1000 to the last message at the Emerald Tower which didn't have it, and to correct a typo in <blue>Gem. These small changes are probably not worth updating the main post.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 02, 2011 01:47 AM |
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I am playing the most stupid game ever. Can anyone believe that my units can't move over the quick sands? Playing Hulk, behemots fly removed and unable to walk past. Dead game.
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2011 03:37 AM |
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That is normal behavior for quicksand. If you can see it, the computer will treat it as an obstacle and plot courses around it (for non-flying creatures), but will allow you to step onto it if you want to, at which point you become stuck. Enemy creatures can't see it and so walk right into it, at least initially. In some cases I have gotten the impression that once they have stepped into a patch, they know it is there from then on and will walk around it, but I am not 100% sure of this. This is definitely true if the enemy casts it - once I step into a patch, it becomes visible.
I use quicksand a lot in "The Swords of Night and Day", in an arena contest called "The Gauntlet of Grond", and as the main battle tactic used by my characters. So I have a lot of recent experience with it. Previously, the only time I remember using it a lot was in Dracon's campaign in Armageddon's Blade. There was a huge army (well, for those days) of Naga Queens I had to get by, with my Enchanters and Titans.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 02, 2011 06:50 PM |
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I find the idea of easy start very good, however after testing the factions, I found that bonuses are not balanced.
The strongest so far was Gem (Life combo), then Hulk (lev 4 hench). The others are way behind or less useful, Red with bow is useless, Azrael is already too strong with his blood dragon (I would just give him some gold), Orrin does not need bow because his titans will have penalty removed with experience-he also starts with a quest artefact-, and Mutare extra attack is not so strong as Gem's artefacts for example/
Speaking about the Doctor, I find this gobbledygook (sorry, google):
pretty annoying to see. There is almost no limit in a description, why abbreviate until it becomes unreadable.
Maybe rethink them until they are all fun to try? I think we all agree that the bonus is capital on first 2 days fight, once the henchman goes level 2, it is easy. So far only Gem and Hulk have a better chance early, maybe Orrin too but his bonus will fade days later.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JimV
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2011 09:41 PM |
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Obviously, my opinion on some of these issues is different, but probably I should not waste people's time by writing long arguments which will only cause bad feelings.
In my my version, I am willing to try changing the Sharpshooter's Bow to the Golden Bow. In my play, the Sharpshooter's bow gets both Lord Haart (with his powerful cannons) and Orrin (with all his creatures converted to shooters) through the first couple days, which was my main concern. I did not intend to make the game easy all the way through, just to make it less necessary to restart the beginning of the game several times. (I am not saying this is the right or wrong thing to do, just clarifying my objective.)
When I thought I had forgotten Gem, I quickly came up with the Elixer of Life as being most relevant to her story, but it also makes some of her powers redundant, so when I realized I had already given her a different bonus, I went back to that. With that original bonus (Necklace of Celestial Bliss, plus increased gold, plus two Gold Dragons instead of one Green and one Gold), Green is the hardest color for me to play at the start (the Doctor is the easiest, of the four I have tried recently), so I have been considering other changes. Currently I am trying her with four Green Dragons, so she can sacrifice one of them to give the rest the vampire ability, plus advanced Earth Magic so she can resurrect her level 1 Commander, whom I usually lose in the first three or four battles, which keeps him from advancing. Everything she has at the start she would have anyway in a couple weeks if she survived, so this will not make it easier to finish the game, just to start it.
In my play-tests, I have finished once, with Orrin, will finish with the Doctor eventually (playing with another person, one or two hours a week), and have played Lord Haart and Gem long enough to take a couple of other towns - but the latter two were about a year ago and I don't remember how I managed to clear Gem's territory now. So the only bonuses which I know to be effective (for me) are those of Red (Lord Haart), Tan (Orrin), and Pink (the Doctor). I did start the game with each of the others to be sure the bonuses were applied, and fought a couple of battles, but I don't recall much about those play-tests.
I have a feeling that there may not be an optimum starting bonus which all players would agree on for each color, and file space is not expensive these days, so why not have a 2.07S version with bonuses which suit you exactly?
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