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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter [ This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 (23) 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ]
master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted January 01, 2012 06:58 PM

How?

Quote:
and in it's first battle he had stats like this:




popabogdan1,would you like to share how do you manage to play against quadrippled creatures?I am interested in how you clear your territory in the first week against such odds?

And why in your screenshot the numbers of creatures are 2 in stack???

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2012 08:08 PM
Edited by popabogdan1 at 20:10, 01 Jan 2012.

Quote:
Quote:
and in it's first battle he had stats like this:




popabogdan1,would you like to share how do you manage to play against quadrippled creatures?I am interested in how you clear your territory in the first week against such odds?

And why in your screenshot the numbers of creatures are 2 in stack???


Well in the new version made by Jim Vogan (The Dragon Slaughter v2_07Dr Doctor's speciality give 500% per lvl bonus to sorcery.
And combined with attack all enemy stacks(The one from the menu) you can clear everything easy.
The Doctor was around lvl 20 in this battle and I use Meteor Shower+Attack all enemy units=Well what you see in the image

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 01, 2012 08:10 PM

500%?

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2012 08:10 PM

Quote:
500%?


Yes check it if you want

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2012 08:12 PM

Quote:
For those who want to play with the neutral-creatures-quadrupling option but find it excessively difficult, a new map version has been added to TDS.rar at  http://www.box.net/shared/bj1eh6b50e - the map name is "The Dragon Slaughter 2.07Dr", where the Dr is the English abbreviation of Doctor (Pink leader).  Also, the other two versions have been modified slightly to correct misleading information in the hint text for the Sorcery Specialization.

The background is that I recently discovered that the standard Sorcery Specialization ("5% increase of the Sorcery Skill bonus per level") does not work in TDS, because of a conflict with the Enhanced Sorcery Skill in the Enhanced Secondary Skills script.  That script uses a technique of negative skill values (which is not documented in the English WoG 3.58f Help) to increase the standard Sorcery skill bonuses of 5%, 10%, and 15% to 10%, 20%, and 30%.  Also, as a special case, it doubles the values again for The Doctor (20%, 40%, and 60%).  With this change in effect, my tests indicate that the Sorcery Specialization does not work.  That is, with Expert Sorcery The Doctor always gets a damage bonus of 60%, regardless of his Hero Level.  In other words, the Sorcery Specialization is useless in this map.  I have revised the specialization hint text to make this clear.

Then, since this seemed unfair to The Doctor (to have a useless Specialization), I made a new version in which the enhanced Sorcery Skill is not applied to The Doctor, so that his specialization will work.  I also boosted the effect to a 500% increase in the Sorcery Skill damage bonus per level.

Why did I pick this number (which is negotiable, if there are objections)?  Because at Hero Level 100, this will give The Doctor an effective bonus equivalent to Level 10,000, which (as far as I know), will make the Doctor the most powerful Sorcerer of all time (for a standard WoG 3.58f map using standard 3.58f ERM without any hacking), surpassing the previous record of about 6500.  I was already planning to do this in a new map, but then it occurred to me that the map and Hero most deserving of this honor would be "The Dragon Slaughter" and The Doctor.

With this power (which is only enabled if the "Leader of the human player gets a starting bonus" option is selected), I can clear out The Doctor's territory of quadrupled neutral creatures in about two game days.  Of course, some creatures have magic resistance or immunities, and as time goes on and creatures advance to experience level 10, there will be more such creatures; also the Commanders of the AI Heroes will have magic resistance.  But I don't think a time will ever come when an Implosion or Meteor Shower spell will be useless to The Doctor in all battles, and he will be reduced to only using Slow and Bless, like a common hedge-wizard.

That is as it should be, because in the TV series the Doctor uses technical magic, not brute force, to solve problems.


There is the post where Jim  Vogan announced this version

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 01, 2012 10:53 PM

Should check how much Armageddon is doing damage at level 100, is it a game break?

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2012 11:04 PM
Edited by popabogdan1 at 23:08, 01 Jan 2012.

Quote:
Should check how much Armageddon is doing damage at level 100, is it a game break?


Well IDK about lvl 100 but I know that at lvl 62 it has 156k dmg

I wonder how much dmg it does at lvl 6000+

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 01, 2012 11:23 PM

Thats not big considering all level 7 have +1000 HP. You do bigger damage hand to hand by that time than 156k

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 02, 2012 02:31 AM

From the Heroes III manual:

Expert Armageddon damage = 50*SP + 120 (SP = Spell Power).

Expert Implosion damage = 75*SP + 300.

The maximum level allowed in TDS is 100.  (The next stable level is 108 - see ERM Help, HL table - but the Experience Overflow script will reduce level 108 back to 100, to prevent the problem of reaching the next stable level, which is 868.)

The Doctor's multiplicative factor for Sorcery skill at level 100 will be 76.15 = 1 +(.15)*(1+100*5).  Therefore, at level 100 and 99 SP, the maximum damage which the Doctor will do is 588,259.  This is not a game breaker, for the middle and late part of the game, but as I said, it is not useless, as an ordinary Implosion (7725) would be.

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 02, 2012 09:25 AM
Edited by popabogdan1 at 09:27, 02 Jan 2012.

Quote:
Thats not big considering all level 7 have +1000 HP. You do bigger damage hand to hand by that time than 156k


I know, I do 6000k Dmg with one of my 1.3k Sacred Pheonixes (I have 6 of them and 1 stack of 2.4k SAA)
But sometimes an implosion on each target is helpful

Quote:
From the Heroes III manual:

Expert Armageddon damage = 50*SP + 120 (SP = Spell Power).

Expert Implosion damage = 75*SP + 300.

The maximum level allowed in TDS is 100.  (The next stable level is 108 - see ERM Help, HL table - but the Experience Overflow script will reduce level 108 back to 100, to prevent the problem of reaching the next stable level, which is 868.)

The Doctor's multiplicative factor for Sorcery skill at level 100 will be 76.15 = 1 +(.15)*(1+100*5).  Therefore, at level 100 and 99 SP, the maximum damage which the Doctor will do is 588,259.  This is not a game breaker, for the middle and late part of the game, but as I said, it is not useless, as an ordinary Implosion (7725) would be.

Oh that's so sad . I wanted to kill every lvl 8 creatures with just spells .

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted January 05, 2012 12:05 PM

Helpful hints

Quote:
But sometimes an implosion on each target is helpful




Implosion and armagedon and other direct damage spells are only useful for the doctor and maybe mostly only for the Doctor in the specific variant of the map,where he gets 500% increase!
(I dont mention the cursed ground...)

I wonder what is helpful for the other main heroes in the map?
Let see:
Azrael gets water walk in one turn with big army.
The other ones if trying to get the water walk early-

For the Doctor its great to have ressurecting 1st henchman!
For the Dragon king-my henchmen are killed in the combats against the azures,but level 31 killer brute is doing good job by killing the dragons when they try to protect their shooters-the ice elementals!
I tried to kill the ice elementals but then the azures hadnt to protect them and killed me,so I reloaded.

And one more thing-it seems the azures are trying to escape the fire shield on my commander if they are not immune yet to it!

Any other helpful hints from players here?



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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 05, 2012 06:31 PM

Quote:
Quote:
But sometimes an implosion on each target is helpful




Implosion and armagedon and other direct damage spells are only useful for the doctor and maybe mostly only for the Doctor in the specific variant of the map,where he gets 500% increase!
(I dont mention the cursed ground...)

I wonder what is helpful for the other main heroes in the map?
Let see:
Azrael gets water walk in one turn with big army.
The other ones if trying to get the water walk early-

For the Doctor its great to have ressurecting 1st henchman!
For the Dragon king-my henchmen are killed in the combats against the azures,but level 31 killer brute is doing good job by killing the dragons when they try to protect their shooters-the ice elementals!
I tried to kill the ice elementals but then the azures hadnt to protect them and killed me,so I reloaded.

And one more thing-it seems the azures are trying to escape the fire shield on my commander if they are not immune yet to it!

Any other helpful hints from players here?





Well Orrin may get Force Field relatively fast and with Force Field and a good lvled Shooter Henchman the Azures will die fast.
Also if Gem gets a high hp henchman with drain life she may defeat them in one battle.
Xarfar and LH have an little advantage from Banshee/Catapult which will kill 1 more azure but this bonus isn't really that useful.
For Hulk well I don't really see a good bonus but well I may be wrong as I never played as him.

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 05, 2012 06:35 PM

Quote:
(I dont mention the cursed ground...)


Not really when an 50k dmg Magic Arrow hits the neutrals

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted January 05, 2012 06:59 PM

???

Quote:
[
Well Orrin may get Force Field relatively fast and with Force Field and a good lvled Shooter Henchman the Azures will die fast.



Thanks for your hints,popabogdan1,but you suggest that there is possibility to take forcefield before waterwalk???

Or even if there was such possibility,the level 3 forcefield to be used on curced ground?LOL

Of course Lord Haart may use forcefield(he can change the battlefield terrain),but as far as I know,first you get waterwalk and then using the waterwalk you go to obtain forcefield!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 05, 2012 07:45 PM

Water walk is first, then force field. For azures, all you need is a commander with death stare and some fast single creatures. You will come back do this fight several times if early, just surrender when commander is ready to die. After 10 fights or so, they will be done.

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 05, 2012 08:22 PM

Quote:
Quote:
[
Well Orrin may get Force Field relatively fast and with Force Field and a good lvled Shooter Henchman the Azures will die fast.



Thanks for your hints,popabogdan1,but you suggest that there is possibility to take forcefield before waterwalk???

Or even if there was such possibility,the level 3 forcefield to be used on curced ground?LOL

Of course Lord Haart may use forcefield(he can change the battlefield terrain),but as far as I know,first you get waterwalk and then using the waterwalk you go to obtain forcefield!

Oh yes you are right it was my mistake,well without ff with Orrin I don't see any way to defeat azures in one battle.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 05, 2012 09:08 PM

As Orrin, if I recall correctly, I had a powerful Master Gremlin Henchman, a large stack of high-level Lords of Thunder (about 100 or so), two large (several hundred) stacks of Santa Gremlins, and the rest level-ten Sacred Phoenixes.  I had Expert Tactics, so I could move the SG's forward one hex so they were completely surrounded by (an increased number of) Gremlin Guards (all of which could shoot Death Clouds twice per turn).  The LoT's and my Henchman were behind triple or quadruple layers of Gremlin guards and Phoenixes.  I lost my Phoenixes and Santa Gremlins (easily replaced), but beat the Azures in one, long battle.

Since I don't like to play as Necromancers or bad guys in general, Orrin was the easiest for me to play, prior to The Doctor's upgrade, since he can transform all his Gargoyles and Golems into shooters.

Now that I know that the Enhanced Secondary Skills script accidentally removes the "5% per level bonus" specialties, I suspect The Hulk is under-powered.  I proposed removed his Offense Secondary Skill enhancement and giving him a 50% per level Offense Specialty, but I haven't tried it - I'm having too much fun with the (over-powered) Doctor.

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted January 05, 2012 09:31 PM

Quote:
As Orrin, if I recall correctly, I had a powerful Master Gremlin Henchman, a large stack of high-level Lords of Thunder (about 100 or so), two large (several hundred) stacks of Santa Gremlins, and the rest level-ten Sacred Phoenixes.  I had Expert Tactics, so I could move the SG's forward one hex so they were completely surrounded by (an increased number of) Gremlin Guards (all of which could shoot Death Clouds twice per turn).  The LoT's and my Henchman were behind triple or quadruple layers of Gremlin guards and Phoenixes.  I lost my Phoenixes and Santa Gremlins (easily replaced), but beat the Azures in one, long battle.

Since I don't like to play as Necromancers or bad guys in general, Orrin was the easiest for me to play, prior to The Doctor's upgrade, since he can transform all his Gargoyles and Golems into shooters.

Now that I know that the Enhanced Secondary Skills script accidentally removes the "5% per level bonus" specialties, I suspect The Hulk is under-powered.  I proposed removed his Offense Secondary Skill enhancement and giving him a 50% per level Offense Specialty, but I haven't tried it - I'm having too much fun with the (over-powered) Doctor.

I know the ideea of having fun with the enhanced Doctor(And believe me it is very funny to defeat almost everything on map with a tanker/Pheonix and spells decimate all the enemy's stack)
I would like to play The Hulk after you make this version too but with secret race as I'm not a big fan of the Stronghold.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted January 06, 2012 07:59 AM

:)

Quote:
After 10 fights or so, they will be done.


Half joking,half seriously-if for grandmaster Salamandre 10 fights are enough,than for an ordinary player like me 100 fights would be in order to get the waterwalk!

Yet,something for me to confess-with Xarfax and his killer banshie,well-trained commander and root-giving SAA is completely possible winning the waterwalk in a single combat!

Other point of view-for the two Palaces of Dreams and one of the Emerald Towers waterwwalk is NOT needed,no matter how many fights they require!

And thank you,JimV,for reminding me that level7-8 henchman is not really necessary,lower levels also do good job.I should try them!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 06, 2012 08:49 AM

Hulk is the best race late, if we ignore the ridiculous uber Azrael. At end game, where Woodmelon scripts every boss with insane defense, his ghost behemots ignore all this scripts, natural ability.

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