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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: The Dragon Slaughter
Thread: The Dragon Slaughter [ This thread is 43 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (26) 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 ]
JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 11:11 AM

Thank you Master Learn, I appreciate the support.  I think most, maybe all, posts here have been fair and worthwhile, though.  Bug reports are necessary to make the game better.

I thought of adding the Super Hulk to the 2.07Dr version, but it would be just for the sake of breaking WoG 3.58f game records for offensive power, as in the case of the Super Doctor.  It is not in the spirit of the original map, which was to make things as difficult as possible for expert players.

I myself am not a very expert player, having only finished the map once, as Orrin (midway through 2.06E with The Doctor but I may never finish due to other projects).  I am impressed to read that you are having no difficulties with any of the colors in the 2.07J version.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted February 04, 2012 12:00 PM

The 8 colours

Quote:

I am impressed to read that you are having no difficulties with any of the colors in the 2.07J version.


Well,in the beginning I have to make restarts of the game to finish the 1st week properly(with bonus to the human player and 20%artefact,where the creatures double).

Then I get the ghosts early and multiply them to sell them later in the Hulks place.So I dont play as clean as an expert player would.
When I get the money,I build upgrades every turn in every town I have.

My goal is to play without ghosts whenever is possible for me.
And for sure,I dont use ghosts against the main enemy players,except one time against Hulk,because he was parked in his stronghold,thus preventing me to sell my ghost army.

And one other thing-I havent played the secret race yet,so I dont know how would I develop with it.


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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 04, 2012 01:22 PM
Edited by alisapa1211 at 13:23, 04 Feb 2012.

Don't know whether this is a bug or not but my Doctor (playing the 500% version)'s level keeps going to 108 then resets to 100, then my spell power probably went overflow and reroll into 1, after that I can't increase it anymore. Can someone explain me something about this?!! Thank you!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2012 01:26 PM

Going back to 100 is normal, to prevent bugs later. But going back to zero spell power is not, script should set it to 99 if >100 or <1. On step trigger.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 01:48 PM
Edited by JimV at 13:58, 04 Feb 2012.

The current experience-overflow script contains this:

** drop from 108 back to 100 at next movement
!!HE-1:E2073739175/100;
!?HM-1&1000;
!!HE-1:Ed/?l;
!!FU&l<108/l>0:E;
!!HE-1:E2073739175/100;
!!HE-1:F?y1/?y2/?y3/?y4;
!!VRy1&y1>=100:S99;
!!VRy2&y2>=100:S99;
!!VRy3&y3>=100:S99;
!!VRy4&y4>=100:S99;
!!HE-1:Fy1/y2/y3/y4;

So it checks for Power (and Attack, Defense, and Knowledge) over 100, but not for zero.  Also, this check only takes place when the Hero moves, so I guess it is possible (but unlikely) for an overflow to occur before the script has a chance to detect it.  I think Bersy says the limit is 127 (it seemed lower to me, in tests, but that was a while ago), so The Doctor would have to go from 99 to 128 to reach negativity, which is why I say it seems unlikely.

I will modify the the script to reset on zero also.  If you can post a saved game somewhere where I can download it, I will adjust The Doctor's Power manually - or maybe you can do that yourself, with a utility?

If we allowed a Hero to keep going past 108, the next level is (checks ERM Help ...) 868, so you would have to click your way through 109, 110, 111, etc., up to 868, and most people don't want that.  If you do, I can delete that check in a saved game also.  (The next level past 868 is 3732 - the Heroes 3 program was only designed to go up to level 74, which New World Computing thought no one would ever reach.)

Update - here is the proposed new version:

!?HM-1&1000;
!!HE-1:Ed/?l/1;
!!HE-1&l>100:E2073739175/100;
!!HE-1:F?y1/?y2/?y3/?y4;
!!VRy1|y1>99/y1<0:S99;
!!VRy2|y2>99/y2<0:S99;
!!VRy3|y3>99/y3<1:S99;
!!VRy4|y4>99/y4<1:S99;
!!HE-1:Fy1/y2/y3/y4;

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2012 02:06 PM

!?HM-1&1000;
!!HE-1:Ed/?l/1;
!!HE-1&l>100:E2073739175/100;
!!HE-1:F?y1/?y2/?y3/?y4;
!!VRy1|y1>99/y1<=1:S99;
!!VRy2|y2>99/y1<=1:S99;
!!VRy3|y3>99/y1<=1:S99;
!!VRy4|y4>99/y1<=1:S99;
!!HE-1:Fy1/y2/y3/y4;

I think this one would be better, maybe? Set to 99 if both 0 and 1, he reported went back to 1, weird. Or maybe add in cheat options to set to 99 if anything wrong.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 02:24 PM

The Cheat options is a good point, but some Heroes start with zero Attack and Defense (e.g., Elementalists), and some with Power and Knowledge =1, and I don't want to set them to 99.  Maybe something else is going on somewhere else, and if so this may not cure the problem, but more information is needed to determine that.  (This is another reason that a saved game, preferably the last AUTOSAVE from before the problem happened, would be useful.)

For now, the revised script above is in the three versions at http://www.box.com/shared/bj1eh6b50e - people who have recently downloaded could also delete the last lines of the Creature/Hero Experience Overflow script (I think at Timed Event 642), starting just after the last comments (which begin with *), and paste in the above lines in replacement - or maybe downloading is easier.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2012 02:28 PM

Of course, the cheat should exit if Hero <99 level. I think it is good then.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 04:40 PM
Edited by JimV at 16:48, 04 Feb 2012.

That is a good point.  I will add that to the script.  I have noticed before that Heroes will not let me go below 1 for Power and Knowledge, maybe because casting a spell with those values would cause a crash.

Update - revised version #2:

!?HM-1&1000;
!!HE-1:Ed/?l/1;
!!HE-1&l>100:E2073739175/100;
!!HE-1:F?y1/?y2/?y3/?y4;
!!VRy1|y1>99/y1<0:S99;
!!VRy2|y2>99/y2<0:S99;
!!VRy3|y3>99/y3<1:S99;
!!VRy4|y4>99/y4<1:S99;
!!HE-1:Fy1/y2/y3/y4;
!!FU&l<100:E;
!!VRy1&y1<1:S99;
!!VRy2&y2<1:S99;
!!VRy3&y3<2:S99;
!!VRy4&y4<2:S99;
!!HE-1:Fy1/y2/y3/y4;

The first set of primary skills tests is for cases where the Hero is below level 100, but is starting to overflow anyway.  I have seen some maps with lots of bonus objects, such as Libraries, where this can happen.  The final set is for cases in which we are certain an overflow has happened.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2012 04:53 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:55, 04 Feb 2012.

y1<0?

I don't think it may go in negative.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 05:05 PM

Maybe not, but I'm not sure what happens at the instant of overflow.  it may be that the program only notices a negative (over-flowed) value when it updates a Hero display.  (Bersy's 127 limit would imply a one-byte signed integer for which numbers above 127 would be negative.) Anyway, it doesn't hurt, and as I said, I can't change zero to 99 unless I am certain an overflow has occurred.

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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 04, 2012 09:54 PM

Sorry for the lack of information, due to being so upset at that time I just quit without saving, and now and start again with an old save near that, but nothing has happened so far. The only thing I can say is that I was doing the 4 Tomes quest that time, so I just click a long path and run while having quick combat to reduce time AMAP!!!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2012 10:19 PM

I use keyboard arrows when doing tome quests, or my finger will be broken of clicking. Viva VCMI, if one day, so we can get rid of all those bugs and overflows, which are not TDS related but original heroes game and can not be fixed atm.
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Alustor
Alustor


Famous Hero
ooo da :)
posted February 04, 2012 10:43 PM

i see that tds got an update yesterday?(on box.net)

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 04, 2012 11:06 PM

It got an update earlier today, in my time, but maybe my today is your yesterday.  Anyway, the Creature/Hero Experience Overflow script was updated as shown above, to try to prevent Primary Skills from overflowing from 99 to negative to zero, or fix them if they do.  If you are like me and watch out for this (removing artifacts and avoiding bonus objects such as Star Axes as you get close to 100), then it should not have any impact.

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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 06, 2012 01:25 AM
Edited by alisapa1211 at 01:26, 06 Feb 2012.

Overflow stat confirmed:

Before using Angelic Set:


After:


I DID use that greeny Tower to transfer all my knowledge into spell power....


Also, is this intended but why does Doctor's Henchmens's Fire Shield deal a ridiculous amount of dmg? No seriously, just look at the picture:


Manage to solo Wisdom Hut with just my Hydras Henchmen alone (they also have Rebirth and + Cast)!!!

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popabogdan1
popabogdan1


Adventuring Hero
posted February 06, 2012 02:42 AM

Quote:
Overflow stat confirmed:
Also, is this intended but why does Doctor's Henchmens's Fire Shield deal a ridiculous amount of dmg? No seriously, just look at the picture:


Manage to solo Wisdom Hut with just my Hydras Henchmen alone (they also have Rebirth and + Cast)!!!


From what I know the fire shield dmg depend on Spell Power and Opponent's dmg.
But I think In your game the doctor's speciality affected your Commander's fire shield.

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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 06, 2012 10:55 AM

Yes, and yes.  You must be careful when a Primary skill is 99 or close to it.  Start removing artifacts which affect it, and stop visiting bonus objects which will increase it.  My standard lecture:  the Heroes 3 program was not designed and tested for the high levels which many modern maps reach.  (I don't think I ever got past 40 in anything playing all the maps which 3DO provided on the Heroes 3 CD's.)

The Overflow script will try to fix this when you take a step (HM trigger) with the Hero, and the current version has gotten a bit more robust, but you must still be careful.  (I wasn't the first time this happened to me, in "Hell Zealot", but now I am - and thank evolution for AUTOSAVE.)  (My nephews are used to me shouting "AUTOSAVE!" when anything goes wrong in life.)

And yes, as popa...(sorry, I can't spell it without looking at it) says, Fire Shield depends on the Hero's spell power, which it turn depends on the Sorcery skill bonus, which in turn depends on the Sorcery Specialty,so the Super Doctor has that going for him.  Which is nice.  (Quoting Bill Murray in "Caddy Shack".)

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 07, 2012 12:00 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 00:08, 07 Feb 2012.

It seems that the amount of experience to go from 88 to 100 then 108 is very low. In my map, main was 88 and did a battle vs 17000x7 black dragons. Then I had the 6024th level overflow, not even 867. As battles like this are only a few(3-4), and very late game, I decided to check level before the battle (after the battle is too late), and set to 63 if Hero is 73=/+. Stats will remain unchanged, I don't see another option.

It also depends from game to game, it is the first time it occurs to me, usually I stop at 108 then back to 100. Hopefully I did a last test before release.

Probably would be better if I set maximum level at 88, but this will penalize the secondary heroes, which are doing smaller battles. Hard choice.
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JimV
JimV


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 07, 2012 08:31 AM
Edited by JimV at 07:52, 08 Feb 2012.

A quick thought (probably wrong, most of my quick thoughts are) is that the HL trigger could be used to stop a Hero at 108 if that Hero is experiencing (pun?) an experience surge.  That is, if the E value is greater than the value for 108, set it to the 108 value before the Hero gets past 108 (at the trigger for 101).

Update - yes, this can be done, as a small improvement to the Creature/Hero Experience Overflow script, according to my tests:

!?HL-1; Hero gets a level promotion
!!HE-1:E?v2/?v1/1;
!!FU&v1<109:E;
!!HE-1:Ed/868;
!!HE-1&v2>=2146553679:Ed/3732;
!!HE-1&v2>=2146733313:Ed/5920;
!!HE-1&v2>=2147293156:Ed/6424;

I say a small improvement because it catches those four cases in which the experience has reached a high, stable level without going negative - and only those four cases.  What will happen is this (my last test case):  say the Hero is at level 100, and gets an experience increase which would take it between the 5920 and 6424 stable levels (a very narrow target window - see HL table in the updated ERM Help); then the Hero will get promoted from 100 to 108 (I could have stopped this also with one more command but did not want to), then the next promotion will say "{Hero} is now a level 5920 Wizard (or whatever)" and the promotions will stop.  At the next step the Hero takes, the script will set it back to level 100.

Negative experience due to overflow in a battle is already accounted for in the script.  Negative experience as a result of some bonus event must be scripted for in the bonus event itself, but a Hero with negative experience can be restored to level 50 by right-clicking on a troop slot in the Hero Screen.  Unfortunately the player will have to click through levels 1 to 50 to get there.


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