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| Thread: Rules vs. Skill |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV |
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 06:17 AM |
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hey, there are 2 there!
lol- well, I stayed after work just to write that bit, it was only 5 minutes worth but the very idea of staying longer than I was getting payed for made me rush a bit. ;-)
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 08:25 AM |
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"Usually it doesn't come to that since with the amount I chain and I generally seem pretty lucky in spells and artifacts I'll usually be the one attacking and looking for final battle"
wow, great ichon you sound like a real grandmaster in the whole post...on the other hand playing you sounds like major boredom to me
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 13, 2002 08:28 AM |
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Boredom I guess you of all would know 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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DocFritch
Hired Hero
Never let your dreams die
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posted June 13, 2002 09:19 AM |
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Concerning Rules
I generally like to play with no additional rules.
1: eliminates chnace of me forgetting one
2: Allows me to see a wide variety of gaming techniques
3: Reduces all or at least "most" chances of disputes
Of course Dispute is the name of the game LOL. we come here to slash, hack, blind, zap, shoot, and burn those who we are in dispute with (A K A our opponent) FOR FUN !!!!
"Chaining", without doubt is the most powerful tactic.
Some may say it's a bug that allows an army to traverse the entire map in the blink of an eye. ( ok a very slow blink)
But you just try to tell someone that has mastered this "skill" that one of your rules is No Chaining.
Hit and Run, Hit and Die, Wraith drainers, the list is endless of the tactics available.
I see a big enemy army headed to a vulnerable spot... why shouldn't I be allowed to use every means available to slow that sucker down. My opponent used every means available to him/her to get that army where it is. AND, because that army is where it is........it should be subjected to every gorrilla tactic the game allows.
I like native hero games. Game starts a little slower but eventually it progresses at a somewhat linear pace. I personally don't feel a need for a GOG specialist leading an army of Rampart troops or Clancy running around my castle town looking for a unicorn to lead.
I've enjoyed reading the myriad of debateable material that Heroes 3 has created. I will depart leaving just 2 comments
1: Keep It Simple
2: Let's Play
Doc
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Always tell the truth.....you'll never have to remember ANYTHING 
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 10:17 AM |
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andi
yeah... you probably would get bored and frustrated since I don't play your style. I don't play anyone's style but my own, in fact most of my games are pretty quick, but I was giving you the benefit of a doubt to describe how cautious I'd be of you. You don't seem very bright speaking on the forums, but you are one of the few high ranked toh I haven't played at some point so I'd be cautious just in case you came up with something original and surprising though you don't seem capable of that.
I played H3 since the 3rd day it was out online... that was a few years ago. Lot of other games more interesting to me now, but I still like talking about H3 since it's one of my favorite older games. I only played about 50 or so ToH ranked games since I didn't join until mid season 1, and then couldn't play for awhile, until end of season 3 which was my last season playing more than 20 games. My record I think is like 46-4 or something and I played alot of good player back then in ToH and non-ToH games.
You are pretty bombastic towards anyone who isn't in the top 5, but I think you don't realize how many veteran and grandmaster type players play other games now. I doubt you'd get in the top 10 or maybe even top 20 if everyone who played was still playing. Some of us have lives and moved on to master new games... plus the sheer amount of free time it takes to play so many toh games means you don't have much time for other things in your life. Guess if you just love H3 enough or are inane enough to not know any better will you play that much. Take your pick which I think you are.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 10:41 AM |
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you just seem pretty full of yerself ichon...im a tosser, everyone knows that, i talk crap on forums, but you think you are the king...1 of those im 50-4 record guys
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 13, 2002 11:50 AM |
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Well if you can walk thy walk then gotta respect him when he talks thy talk right
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 08:08 PM |
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Quote:
I played H3 since the 3rd day it was out online... that was a few years ago.
how long u play homm has nothin tzo do with skill - some guys have hundrets of online game and still suck ass....i know what im talkin about because my first lets say 200 games i was good in homm like saudi arabia in soccer
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My record I think is like 46-4 or something and I played alot of good player back then in ToH and non-ToH games.
wow 50-4 ....and how many cherries u got ?
Quote:
I doubt you'd get in the top 10 or maybe even top 20 if everyone who played was still playing.
lol what a joke and what kind of names u thinkin bout ?
in my opinion the overall skill level raised every season becaue more and more players got to know the game better and better. i bet for andi u would just b cannonfooder 
Cannonschaaf
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 13, 2002 09:56 PM |
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A few comments from a "newbie" in TOH...
Quote:
You are pretty bombastic towards anyone who isn't in the top 5, but I think you don't realize how many veteran and grandmaster type players play other games now.
Ive been around in TOH since mid season 3. And as far as i can tell Andi has not been patronising me at all, which might could have been expected since i got alittle too much attitude sometimes...Both against him and many other players.
And about the vet status in TOH, if you wanna know about who that finished in whatever place in whichever season there are old rankings at TOH site. So Basically it would take a few mins to check who´s still playing or not.
As far as the "Andi would not make..." talk i guess we will never know since its just theoritcally speaking. I dont totally agree with Motors tho, even if you think the progress of players always should take a step forward you never can tell the skills of a former player if you havent played em.
But then ive only played Andi a couple of times, in a 3ffa game and in a 3v3 game. In the 3v3 game i had the luck to have him as allie and even if i didnt learn something direct i still think i learned about different set ups on map and so on.
But why dont just end this with a game between the two of you? You both seem to concider randoms OK so i can host one for the two of you. And let the best man win
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 10:15 PM |
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i would love to see that slaughter live
Motorschaaf
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mmontgomery
Hired Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 11:36 PM |
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Some rules can be good when the things addressed are "game breakers". Some rules we use:
1. No Grail. Why? Because if you happen to be lucky enough for the grail to be close, you win.
2. No Orb of Inhibition or Recanter's Cloak. Why? Because a hero which spent tremendous time and money becoming a magic specialist now loses this entire investment and becomes toast to a might specialist. If there were a similar artifact (imagine an artifact which increases the defense factor of all units by 100) which made all units immune or nearly immune to melee damage, this would be banned also, for the reverse reason, since a might hero would have little chance against a magic hero if all melee combat were inhibited in this manner.
3. We usually create random maps with little or no water so that summoning boats is not a problem, but otherwise, summoning boats has been mentioned earlier as a game breaker on certain maps.
So far, that is it for game breakers. Although many of the artifacts are powerful, these are the only ones which seem to singlehandedly give the game to the bearer.
We used to have rules to limit the number of hereos for time purposes, but found that the built-in 4 or 6 minute turn limit worked well enough. Of course, that is another 'rule' to agree upon: the turn time limit.
Other than that, sometimes you might sprinkle on a rule for some 'spice', to get a variant. One such variant I like is to allow the opponent to pick each other's starting race. This gives some variety in playing the weaker races, while still remaining balanced.
But if you find yourself insisting on the same variant rules (other than some agreed upon game breakers) for every game, then the rules are becoming a crutch rather than a spice.
Finally, if rules are added, I want rules that are absolutely clear cut, no ambiguity, such as not bringing certain artifacts into battle, or not digging for the grail. Rules such as no hit-and-run, no chaining, etc. are too ambigious to me. I would never play such a game.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 11:47 PM |
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hehehe
Ahh... that's exactly what I mean when I said you were bombastic toward anyone not currently in the top 5. You didn't get such an attitude tell lately when you decided rank is the only definition of skill.
Of course the skill level goes up every season in ToH, but you can only get so good, then it's the tiny little things that matter and people call it luck. When I used to say all this stuff about artifacts and spells being very random people scoffed when ToH first opened, then you start seeing all sorts of rules to ban the random things. That doesn't really solve it, but people only start to get concerned about balancing the little things when they get good enough to realize how much they matter. Then there is another progression where they see it matters, but all sorts of things you can do to minimize the randomness.
Motor- are you saying it doesn't matter how many games you play at the same time you are saying that fact you have 200 recorded ToH games gives what you say any more weight?
As far as win ratio mattering or not. It does... it isn't everything, but you can't say the guy who gets to the same rank as someone else in 25 games compared to everyone else at that rank who have 50 games, that the person with less games isn't a better player. Obviously he is or else you are saying it's all about luck. Tell Antal or Frank, or anyone who used to play alot that it doesn't matter they won all those games and didn't lose very often, and that just because they stopped playing so often they aren't any good anymore. lol That's what you are trying to suggest now.
I'll play you anytime before the end of next week Andi- I'm packing up my computer and moving after that though and won't be online for a few months. I'll add you to zone friends so I can see when you are on. I'll be around this Sunday for sure, and maybe some other times. Any map you want though I'd prefer a random, only condition I want is to be able to look at map for 15-20 min before game if it's one I never played before.
Also- whoever losses has to write a little capitulation speech and post it here. Should be funny to see you try and explain how someone so high ranked lost to someone who didn't play a ranked game in over a year. If I lose I'll do the same thing. I play AoKtC on zone under name Ichon alot, so zm me if you are on. I get off work at midnight central time tonight, I'll be able to play then or on Sunday and some days next week.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted June 13, 2002 11:52 PM |
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Trying to tell other people how good you are is the ultimate toss. The other thing Ichon, is that it would be near impossible to "delay a final battle for a week or two" against a top player. If they are a top player as you say, then you dont get that week or 2 luxury. Just as you are getting ready to go hunting for that player, they are hunting you. The only real way to get away from them is if you manage D/D, air magic and a log hero. If that is the way you have managed to win most of your games, then your record is falsified, you cant get away with that tactic against top players, hence probably your wins have come against "middle of the road type players"
Do you really think players in the top 20 of ToH would let you get away with that tactic?
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 14, 2002 12:03 AM |
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depends on the map
Rychen- depends totally on the map. Smaller maps or alot of mediums even that's true. But some mediums, many randoms, and any other map you can still run around them if they only have 1 good hero. The only way they can catch you is retreat their main hero as they chain army across map, and buy hero in town close to one of the heroes they trying to kill. If they got log then they can probably do it.
As far as being a good player or top player, I think I still am, but I haven't played for awhile so this will be a good test, perhaps I am only middle of the road nowadays. =) I don't care about saying how good you are or not... I did that just to annoy Andi since even though he doesn't go around saying he's the best you can tell from his attitude that he thinks he is.
Tossing is for fun... so shall this game be, but whichever way it ends up- it doesn't ultimately mean anything to anyone else cept me or andi.
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted June 14, 2002 12:32 AM |
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Quote:
Motor- are you saying it doesn't matter how many games you play at the same time you are saying that fact you have 200 recorded ToH games gives what you say any more weight?
hmm my english still sucks - so i try to tell again hat i mean : that u started to play toh season 1 and that u maybe played countless games doesnt make ya a good player.
some players need a lot time to improve...some take forever
Quote:
As far as win ratio mattering or not. It does...
no it does not - when i look at classic toh ranking for example an see the win-loss ratio of some player i know i just wonder myself how many newbies they killed.
same with some guys i know and played in former toh seasons .
Quote:
Tell Antal or Frank, or anyone who used to play alot that it doesn't matter they won all those games and didn't lose very often, and that just because they stopped playing so often they aren't any good anymore. lol That's what you are trying to suggest now.
ichion everyone knows that if you want there are ways to make ur win/loss recore look better - be it you only play with hero/town pick or you only play some maps(the desert war desease) or only vs players u know that give ya an easy win ...newbiekillin is also an option. well and some seem unable to find that "report loss" button or finish saves.
Motorschaaf
P.S: u really wanna battle out that duel on a random ? well then i recomment that sir stiven edites one in advance or i bet the 2 of you would never end one game because of countless restarts - and whoever loses is gonna blame the random editor.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 14, 2002 01:07 AM |
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Well if you take thy time to study every little thang about heroes I mean hr's & hr's & days just studying a map, every artifact, bringing in a culculator, counting every footsteps,playing some of thy best & learn from thy saves after game etc.
So yes you can be a kick butt player in I bet months or less if you dedicated your no life time to heroes & really studied hard as you would study a final exam.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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