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| Thread: Since H6 is close ('final' lineups proposal) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 22, 2010 10:10 PM |
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from screenshoots and news I think the necropolis line-up will be somethink like this:
1.Skeleton>Skeleton archer
2.Ghoul>Bloody Ghoul
3.Ghost>Spectre
4.Vampire>Vampire Lord
5.Lich>Archlich
6.Drider>Spider Queen
7.Bone Dragon>Spectral Dragon
and for Haven
1.Archer>Crossbowman
2.Pikeman>Halebardier
3.Swordsman>Crusader
4.Griffin>Armored Griffin
5.Monk>Zealot
6.Cavalier>Paladin
7.Angel>Archangel
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted August 22, 2010 10:47 PM |
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Edited by Danny at 22:50, 22 Aug 2010.
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Well if they really looked at defining creatures
Danny, I think you're looking at it wrong. It is not what would make a faction good by including it. It is what would make it suck monkeys if people took it out. Also you have to look what remains constant throughout the games.
Well it's kinda based on taste, but then again it isn't. For some castles, constancy is not an argument because they barely changed since H3. For others, maybe they changed, but fans complained about the departure of a certain creature.
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For Haven/Castle it is definatly the Angels, the Calaviers and either the Swordsmen or the Griffins. Ok Angels and Griffins only got there in HoMMIII, but they found a pretty good Niche here with the Knights and their kinsmen.
Haven didn't change almost anything since H3, the Griffins took a break (and a war machine got added) but otherwise it's been all the same (just the ground units getting variations). Even Peasant is "defining" at this point, these units are equally important now if you talk about continuity. Marksmen had been there since the very beginning as well, surely they would be missed. The Griffin is debatable though, we expect it because of their imagery but Haven was still just as Haven without them in H4 and true to themselves. (Besides, isn't it a Warcraft homage that they started to appearing with humans?)
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For Necropolis it is the Vampires, the Skeletons and to a lesser extent the Ghosts. It's been doing fine without the Deathknight for some time now. And the Bone Dragon is not necesary to make it have the Necro feel.
Death Knight had been a fan fav in H3 and people have been missing it since then. While personally I agree Bone Dragons are not necessary, a lot of people are going to miss them and won't like the new creatures. Being a "dragon" it gets a lot of hype and people expect it to be included. People are also missing the Mummy and they'd prefer it over the ghost. Of course you can't have a Necropolis town without skeletons and vampires though, then again the Lich has been there too most of the time...
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For Inferno it's the Imps, the Cerberi and the Devils. Thos have been the one constant in the vast and varying ranks of Demons throughout the Games.
The Inferno only existed in 2 HOMMs and their lineup was almost identical except the Gog and the Efreeti. Yes the 3 ones you listed appeared in H4 Necropolis but the Imps are among the least loved creatures of HOMM and surely the Pit Lord is more popular than them. It definitely wouldn't be "less" of an Inferno without the Imps.
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For Academy/Tower it is the Magi, the Titans and the Genie/Djinn or the Golems. But as the Golems have not made their mind up wether they're magical or mechanical, so we'll go for the Genie/Djinn.
It's all 4 in this case, they are the constant ones. The Djinn doesn't really fit the snowy landscape though, if that were the case.
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For Sylvan/Rampart is the Elven Archer by whatever name it goes, the Unicorn and the Druid. The Elves have done perfectly well without the Treants or the Pixies in past times. I'll give that the Druid has been in the ranks of their Heroes for some time, but they never left.
I'm not sure why it can only be 3. Sprites have been there since the beginning except in H3, they are pretty defining. Definitely moreso than the Druid, it only appeared in H1-2 and 5. We know they are going to be included because the Elves need a magician, but by your argument in H3 and 4 the elves did "perfectly well" without them as creatures.
Also, the Treant is totally a defining creature now because of LotR and whatever influences. Casual fans definitely expect "walking tree monsters" in such settings. We expect the Unicorn but if it takes a break, it's not like the whole town will suck without it.
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Is it realy? The Elves have been about hitting fast and hard, then legging it back into the forrest again to outflank their opponent again. Elves on stags seem perfect for that.
I meant the actual appearance, it's a four legged mammal next to another one in the tiers. Yes, the Pegasus-Unicorn thing was the same issue, they were too similar.
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I don't think so. If the Wizards go back to the tundra, then yes. But they'll most likely still be in the Desert, as this is still Ashan. Also note that this is set in the past. The Wizard would not have advanced as much in ways of magic and would likely have to rely more on the people in their cities and the surrounding desserts.
Wouldn't that mean no Titan though, if they are not advanced enough?
I know it could be a human unit but like I suggested, a gun wielding one to directly replace the gremlin, instead of a melee nomad. And no, I still can't imagine it in a good-alignment town.
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and I agree that the ones who wield the whips to keep the demons in line will likely be the Devils.
It's possible, but I already gave an argument why the Efreeti are unlikely to make a comeback (same reason why the Death Knights in fact, they are just variations of another unit) and it's about the opposite factions too, in H4 it worked that Djinn was in Order and Efreeti was in Chaos but it won't work with Academy-Inferno again.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2010 11:00 PM |
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But a H6 version of the Efreet can be completly unrelated to the Djinn. They do not need to look like clones of each other.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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danijel1990
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2010 11:26 PM |
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from screenshoots and news I think the necropolis line-up will be somethink like this:
1.Skeleton>Skeleton archer
2.Ghoul>Bloody Ghoul
3.Ghost>Spectre
4.Vampire>Vampire Lord
5.Lich>Archlich
6.Drider>Spider Queen
7.Bone Dragon>Spectral Dragon
and for Haven
1.Archer>Crossbowman
2.Pikeman>Halebardier
3.Swordsman>Crusader
4.Griffin>Armored Griffin
5.Monk>Zealot
6.Cavalier>Paladin
7.Angel>Archangel
But that would contradict the 40% new units fact...unless (of course) they add one totally new faction..
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 22, 2010 11:36 PM |
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But that would contradict the 40% new units fact...unless (of course) they add one totally new faction..
Yes, but as was made clear to me, this is a 'wishing thread', not a speculative one, so people can post just what they like, without regards to what we already know.
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danijel1990
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2010 11:51 PM |
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But that would contradict the 40% new units fact...unless (of course) they add one totally new faction..
Yes, but as was made clear to me, this is a 'wishing thread', not a speculative one, so people can post just what they like, without regards to what we already know.
True, true...
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted August 23, 2010 12:17 AM |
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Yes the 3 ones you listed appeared in H4 Necropolis but the Imps are among the least loved creatures of HOMM and surely the Pit Lord is more popular than them. It definitely wouldn't be "less" of an Inferno without the Imps.
Imps are one of my most loved creatures. I am one myself in German forum Drachenwald. I would miss them. But okay, maybe it's just me.
Could it be that the new Human Cavalry is riding on some sort of celestial horses? They seem to glow on the Artwork.
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Bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2010 08:40 AM |
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Since there are so many units that could fit into Dungeon I thought, why not split it into 2 separate factions. Dungeon would be under control of the faceless (represented by 2 creatures), while Asylum would be a sort of safe port for all misfits, criminals, and even some monsters that can't find their place.
DUNGEON
1. Harpy / Harpy Hag (flyer)
2. Beholder / Evil Eye (shooter)
3. Mimic / Changeling (melee) (NEW)
4. Basilisk / Stone Basilisk (melee)
5. Sovereign / Monarch (caster) (NEW)
6. Manticore / Scorpicore (flyer, limited shooter)
7 .Black Dragon / Onyx Dragon (flyer)
Mimic and sovereign are the faceless, both capable of shapeshifting and some mind control.
Other units are mix of well known creatures. Upgraded manticore can shoot poisonous barbs from its tail 3 times per combat.
ASYLUM
1. Bandit / Bandit Chieftain (malee)
2. Assassin / Royal Assassin (melee/ranged)
3. Minotaur / Minotaur Lord (melee)
4. Medusa / Medusa Queen (ranged)
5. Witch / Crone (caster)
6. Black Knight / Scourge (melee)
7. Chimera / Chaos Chimera (flyer) (NEW)
Both witch and assassin are humans, not dark elves (although if they were elven, not a big problem). Chimera is a powerful flying monster with three separate attacks (strong bite, weaker bite with poison, fire breath).
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 23, 2010 04:18 PM |
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@bludge: Why Dungeon? I mean, of course many creatures can fit in it, but also it's not such a "main" faction.
also, I have to say your factions are a bit close to each otehr imo...
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Snatch
Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
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posted August 23, 2010 04:26 PM |
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@bludge: Why Dungeon? I mean, of course many creatures can fit in it, but also it's not such a "main" faction.
Dungeon is in this game since HoMM 1. Doesn't this qualify it as a main faction?
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Minotaur_Man
Hired Hero
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posted August 23, 2010 08:40 PM |
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@Jiriki9: I have to agree with Snatch that the dungeon/warlock is a main faction, despite always getting a bit of a make-over every game after Heroes 2. It has been in the every game since Heroes 1, while factions like the Necropolis and the Inferno made their first appearances in the second and third games, respectively (And those two factions were molded together in Heroes 4). So, I don't see why the dungeon/warlock town wouldn't be considered a main faction.
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bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2010 09:29 PM |
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@bludge: Why Dungeon?
Because I already made almost everyhing else.
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I mean, of course many creatures can fit in it, but also it's not such a "main" faction.
I didn't say anywhere I was making a main faction 
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also, I have to say your factions are a bit close to each otehr imo...
In what way?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 23, 2010 11:44 PM |
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I think I say: revoco. I'm still tired today and was, when posting, didn't think much. But for the sameness: Factions in homm use to have rather different setttings for each faction. And for these, the settings seem quite close. But if you could line pout a bit how you imagine the stting things, it could be great:
-visual, especsially town desing, symbols & colors (not showing, explaining them)
-audios (the same, liek saying what the mood of the faction theme should be like)
-hirarchy, society, etc.
-hero classes & alignments & relationships...
such stuff. 'cause just by the units, I imagine the towns really close...
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted August 24, 2010 04:09 PM |
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Edited by Danny at 16:10, 24 Aug 2010.
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I see where the "Dungeon is not a main faction" argument comes from. Unlike the other 5 it was never any close to a "race" until HOMM5 (one could argue the same about Rampart and Tower but imho they still have more of a theme), and the only common point in the games was that it was a home for the Minotaur, Hydra (except when the Fortress stole it  ) and the Black Dragon.
Most weird how it became a PIRATE town in HOMM4, I never really liked that, it just showed they didn't know what to do with it, but they had to make sure the 3 famous creatures were still in the game.
As long as we're in Ashan, the Dungeon will remain Dark Elves, but I'm not expecting to see them in this game. They will probably make the Hydra & Black Dragon a boss fight or something like that.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 25, 2010 09:55 AM |
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from screenshoots and news I think the necropolis line-up will be somethink like this:
1.Skeleton>Skeleton archer
2.Ghoul>Bloody Ghoul
3.Ghost>Spectre
4.Vampire>Vampire Lord
5.Lich>Archlich
6.Drider>Spider Queen
7.Bone Dragon>Spectral Dragon 7. Sphinx
and for Haven
1.Archer>Crossbowman
2.Pikeman>Halebardier 2. Praetorian
3.Swordsman>Crusader
4.Griffin>Armored Griffin
5.Monk>Zealot
6.Cavalier>Paladin
7.Angel>Archangel
But that would contradict the 40% new units fact...unless (of course) they add one totally new faction..
Well not quite. I get the impression that they count the "Ghoul" as a new unit, the "Drider" is a new unit, and they probably also call the "Praetorian" a new unit, even if it's more or less a Pikeman in disguise, and the Bone Dragon seems to have been changed into some sort of Undead Sphinx.
Furthermore, there was some talk about the continuation of the Lich as a unit, and if the glowing Haven unit indead does make an appearance in the line-up (which I don't believe, but what do I know), that would be one more new unit.
Even without that, we're talking almost 30 % new units in these two factions, and I got the impression that Haven was supposed to be LESS changed than the average faction, so ...
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 25, 2010 09:20 PM |
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Since the likely three remaining factions have not been revealed yet, I will give my personal ideas on the line-ups of Inferno, Academy and Sylvan.
Inferno
In H5, I viewed Inferno as a boring and generic faction. In the story, they were all the same and all had the same mission (kill all, destroy everything - rawr!). Storywise, I think Inferno in H5 was very one-dimensional.
The H5 Inferno line-up was not really good either. Early game was annoying with no shooter untill the Succubus. Infernos "tank" creature seemed to be the Horned Demons that I felt was underused or just a bad creature that I never cared about .
Inferno also suffered from only having one flier at the top level and their caster was also an extremly good melee creature and that they did not make sense to me.
To me the classic Inferno units are the following: Imp, Cerberus, Devil. The rest can be changed in my opinion without making the fans furious.
1. Imp -> Familiar (Walker, Siphon Mana)
2. Succubus -> Succubus Seducer (Shooter, Seduce)
3. Hellhound -> Cerberus (Walker, Multi-Attack)
4. Juggernaut -> Juggernaut Reaver (Walker, Shockwave, Vengeance)
5. Efreet -> Efreet Hierophant (Flier, Caster, Sacrifice)
6. Pit Fiend -> Pit Lord (Walker, Explosion)
7. Devil -> Arch Devil (Flier, Warp)
The Imp is a traditional creature that is still there. They are fast and numerous and their iconic special ability is to steal mana from your enemies and transfer it to your hero or to a caster in your army.
Succubus function as Infernos shooters and I think Inferno had creeping problems in Heroes 5. Its iconic ability is Seduce. Seduce mind controls an enemy stack for some time. Seduce would also be an excellent and fun ability to use while creeping.
Hellhounds are another classic Inferno creature. They are fast and deal high damage. Their iconic thing is that they are able to attack several targets at once, making them lethal when they are at the frontline.
Juggernauts act as Infernos primary tank creatures. They can take a great deal of damage. I have ideas for two abilities for them. The first is Shockwave. The Juggernaut can use Shockwave to stun enemies in front of him for a few turns. Shockwave covers a few tiles in a line in front of the Juggernaut.
The second idea I have for them is Vengeance. The idea is that a percentage of damage that the Juggernaut takes, is converted into Attack for it. So when it takes damage, it will also deal more damage.
The Efreet is Infernos primary caster. They are the embodiments of chaos itself. They have tradtional Destruction spells like Fireball and perhaps some buff that increases the damage the Inferno creatures deal. Its special ability is called Sacrifice. It is similar to the Vampires Life Drain but instead it drains mana. The Efreet gains mana depending on how much damage it deals. So the idea is that between casting, it flies in and attacks to regain mana in order to cast another spell. Another option would to just make Efreets shooters but I think that would ruin the point with the idea that they have quite low mana and must engage in melee combat once in a while to regain it.
I think a lot of people really liked the Pit Fiends and Pit Lords in H5. They looked really powerful and cool. It would be sad to remove them. But instead of them being casters, they should just be powerful melee creatures. Their iconic special ability is Explosion. They rush to the enemy front lines and then cause an explosion around them, dealing devastating area effect damage.
Devils just can not be removed. They are the most iconic creature for Inferno. They are fliers, though they teleport. Their special ability is Warp. Warp is a very interesting ability. The Arch Devil can use Warp to teleport an enemy or friend across the battlefield. So for instance, he can Warp out a stack of shooters from behind the walls of a town or warp a slow but powerful creature in front of the enemies casters.
Other creature suggestions: Nephilim. They look similar to Gargoyles. Fast fliers. Lore is that they are fallen angels that have been twisted and corrupted by demonic energies. Would fit as a mid-tier unit. Nephilim -> Nephilim Avenger.
That is my idea for the Inferno line-up.
I will post my Sylvan proposal tomorrow.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Alaamir
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 25, 2010 09:48 PM |
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Since H6 is close ('final' lineups proposal)
...and seems to stay ashan, and close to H5, so it will probably not tooo different, an proposal to how new lineups could be could, without regard to story etc. (I didn't liek ashan enough to go really into the
storyline and I never REALLy played DM)
Only Change is 8 tiers^^
tier 8? Is this just your idea or you have information about it?
As for a new line-up I have one idea that combines the creatures from heroes 3 and 5(the best for me) :
tier creature upgraded creture
1 imp familiar
2 gog magog
3 hell hound cerberi
4 horned demon horned overseer
5 hell charger nightmare
6 balor hell baron
7 devil arch devil
8 juggernaut juggernaut master/balrog?
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bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted August 25, 2010 09:54 PM |
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As for a new line-up I have one idea that combines the creatures from heroes 3 and 5(the best for me) :
tier creature upgraded creture
1 imp familiar
2 gog magog
3 hell hound cerberi
4 horned demon horned overseer
5 hell charger nightmare
6 balor hell baron
7 devil arch devil
8 juggernaut juggernaut master/balrog?
Juggernaut is said to be the replacement for horned demon, and I'm not sure if balor isn't trademarked word. Otherwise it's looking pretty good.
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Alaamir
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 25, 2010 10:27 PM |
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Juggernaut is said to be the replacement for horned demon, and I'm not sure if balor isn't trademarked word. Otherwise it's looking pretty good.
If this is a middle-level creature I can't wait to see how would the devil look ( maybe like this). By the way where did you find that the juggernaut is replacement for the demon? Link please 
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bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted August 25, 2010 10:43 PM |
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Juggernaut is said to be the replacement for horned demon, and I'm not sure if balor isn't trademarked word. Otherwise it's looking pretty good.
If this is a middle-level creature I can't wait to see how would the devil look ( maybe like this). By the way where did you find that the juggernaut is replacement for the demon? Link please
It's in this thread somewhere
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=24719
good look finding it though...
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