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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: [H6 news batch 26.08.10] ~ Discussion and feedback
Thread: [H6 news batch 26.08.10] ~ Discussion and feedback This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT»
xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 27, 2010 09:39 PM

Faceless makes a lot of sense.

The plot of H6 is said to be an Archangel General wanting to revive and I guess finish an old war that was against one of the Elder races. In the Ashan lore, it is said that the Angels once launched a crusade upon the Faceless.
The H6 lore says the Archangel uses the new demonic invasion to lure us to fight his true enemies (probably the Faceless) or something like that.

From what we have seen of the Faceless, they look like the opposite of the Angels. The Angels dragon is Elrath, of the Light and the Faceless dragon is Malassa, of the Darkness.
They also visually look like opposites of each other.

The underground makes sense as a terrain for them, they fit with the story, the timeline, are something completly new and I do not see why they should not be a likely candidate for the new 5th race.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted August 27, 2010 09:41 PM

Quote:
- The Phoenix will be back as a neutral creature. It will be blue


Ohhhh yeah.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted August 27, 2010 09:42 PM

I'm starting to see where you're coming from.  Having heard a little more about them, I can see the Faceless being a possibility.

But will they be in the initial game, or as part of an expansion?  It all depends on what the plot of the campaign itself turns out to be.

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Snatch
Snatch


Promising
Known Hero
Proud Kappa
posted August 27, 2010 09:44 PM

Hey, some more interesting news.

And surprisingly there's hardly one that sounds bad to me. Okay, November and January is a bit late to reveal the last factions.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 27, 2010 09:48 PM

I am browsing around on a very interesting french forum and is this speculation or the actual line-up of Necropolis in H6?


T1: Skeleton Warrior ==> Equipped with ax year and a rudimentary shield, the Skeleton Warriors Are Among the first creations of the Necromancers of the Seven Cities. Often created from criminals or slaves, these creatures bear a bitter hatred for life in all its forms. Often created from gold Criminals Slavic thesis creatures bear a bitter hatred for life in all forms STIs.
T1: Skeleton Lancer ==> Unlike Skeleton Warriors, Skeleton Lancer is created from the body of a follower of the weapon which his experience of the spear. Q1: Running Skeleton ==> unlikable Skeleton Warriors, Skeleton Lancer IS created from the body of a follower of the weapon Which Loved experience of the spear. Like its counterpart warrior, he wears a fierce hatred for life and the possibility of attack with his two spears. Like ITS Counterpart warrior, wears a fierce hatred ET for Life and The Possibility of Attack with Two spears.

T2: ghoul ==> The ghouls are from various necromantic experiments made on the Seven Cities of hanged. T2: ghoul ==> The ghouls are from various Necromantic experiments made it the Seven Cities of hanged. The result was stunning: the flexibility of their arms and legs was increased tenfold so they placed a high movement speed and attack. The result was stunning: the Flexibility of Their arms and legs Was Placed So They INcreased tenfold has high movement speed and attack.
T2: ghoul frenzy ==> The hierarchy of ghouls is distinguished among the living dead on the battlefield. T2: Ghoul frenzy ==> Hierarchy of ghouls IS Distinguished Among the Living dead on the battlefield. As the ghouls, then decked the adjective "frenzied", bear a light leather armor and long claws adorn their bony hands. As the ghouls either 'decked the adjective "Frenzied", bear a light leather armor and long claws Adorn Their bony hands.

T3: White Lady ==> The white ladies are women prophesied death. T3: White Lady ==> The white ladies are women prophesied death. Necromancers can control them and have them in their armies were as devastating an epidemic of plague. Necromancers can control 'em and Have Them In Their armies have Were Devastating year epidemic of plague.
T3: Banshee ==> It is said that he who hears the cry of a banshee dies shortly. T3: Banshee ==> It IS Said That One Who hears the cry of a banshee dies shortly.

T4: Lich ==> The Lich are mages who have conquered death by establishing their consciousness into a dead body to bring it to the non-life. Q4: Lich ==> The Lich Who are mages Have Conquered Death by Establishing Their consciousness Into a dead body to bring it to the non-life. Their power is about more than this, however, is why they are confined to stay in the armies of Necromancer, Liche or Vampire Lords more powerful. Their power can not Be Reduced, howeve, That This Is Why They Are left to the armies of intransitive in Necromancer, Lich Lords, More Powerful golden vampires.
T4 Archiliche ==> The difference between a Lich and a archiliche is about more than biggest range of spells of the past. T4 Archiliche ==> The Difference Between a lich and a archiliche Is About More Than biggest range of spells from 'em.

T5: Vampire ==> The agreement between the Seven Cities of Necromancers and vampires is recent. T5: Vampire ==> The agreement Between the Seven Cities of Necromancers and Vampires IS recent. However, this has not prevented the sick called "vampire" to carve a place in the armies necromancers. Howeve, this prevented the sick Has not Called "vampire" to carve a place in the armies necromancers. Able to siphon the life of their enemies, the vampires are almost immortal. Able to siphon the Life of Their enemies, the vampires are immortal Almost.
T5: Vampire Saigneur ==> A fan of magic blood, the Tappers Vampires are able to siphon the life of enemies near the target. T5: Vampire Saigneur ==> A fan of the Magic of Blood, the vampires are Tappers Able to siphon the life of enemies near the target.

T6: Manticore ==> necromantic experiments on Manticores have took time to bear fruit, but the Necromancers of the Seven Cities have finally managed to control them. T6: Manticore ==> Necromantic experiments we Manticores Have Took time to bear fruit, drank the Necromancers of the Warlords finally managed to control them ". Known as the man-eaters in their lives, they are called in the death eaters life. Known as the man-eaters in Their Lives, They Are Called Life in the death eaters.
T6: Chimera necromantic ==> At the price of years of effort and loss, the Necromancers of Seven Cities were finally able to change the body of Manticore. T6: Chimera Necromantic ==> The price of long years of effort and loss, the Necromancers of the Seven Cities Have finally managed to change the body of Manticore. Now dressed in wings of bats and a giant sphinx head, no one underestimates once these chimeras necromantic. Now dressed in wings of bats and a giant Sphinx head, no one underestimates oz thesis Necromantic Chimeras.

T7: Keeper of Asha ==> Guardians of Asha are creatures half woman half spider. T7: Keeper of Asha ==> Guardians of Asha are creatures half woman half spider. Anyone who dares to challenge them will have to fight their offspring in the cocoon and the clouds of poison they create. Anyone Who dares to challenge Will Have to fight 'em Their offspring in the cocoon and the clouds of poison THEY CREATE.
T7: Avatar Asha ==> Only the most prestigious and most Necromancers believers are entitled to have their avatars goddess in their ranks. T7: Avatar Asha ==> Only the MOST MOST exotic and prestigious and believers Necromancers can claim a new serie of Their avatars goddess in Their Ranks. It is said that those who face them face death itself. It Is Said That Those Who meet em face death itself.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 10:05 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 22:07, 27 Aug 2010.

You may want to review you punctuation and lay-out Xerox.

Also I'm calling shotgun that when it turns out that the 5th faction is NOT the Faceless, to say to all of you: "I told you so."
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Iron from Ice.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 27, 2010 10:08 PM

Okay so that IS the necropolis line-up. ^^

the forum is the archangel castle thing

Im browsing it with google translate xD xD

the faceless are called the no-faces xD they are said to have created the dark elves
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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baklajan
baklajan


Adventuring Hero
posted August 27, 2010 10:12 PM
Edited by baklajan at 22:21, 27 Aug 2010.

Thrilling news! But it would feel much more reassuring to hear either from VIP members or devs themselves that they are not entirely abandoning the good old Wizards and Elves we've known since the very beginning of the series.

Could someone familiar with Ashan timeline do a quick field analysis and say if:

1. By the time H6 begins, Wizards aren't at war with Necromancers yet, so the former remain neutral.

2. By the time H6 begins, Elves are at war with the Dark Elves, so they can't afford entering this Humans vs. Demons & Necropolis conflict, and would rather start their campaign against their splinter faction in an expansion pack.

My best guess for a "faction known from previous Heroes" is Wizards. Why so? The brief .pdf overview of the Necropolis faction released a few days ago mentions that Wraiths occupy the same tactical role in a Necromancer's army that the Genies (Djinnis) do in the army of Wizards.

We do not have any true desert type terrain announced, save for Necropolis' dead wastelands, and that obviously isn't something the wizards of the Seven Cities would settle on. But we have a terrain called 'plains (autumn)'. This could be some sort of a magically transformed forest that accommodates the Wizards' expeditionary force to stop the Demons and the Necromancers, since many times Wizards played an important role in quelling the various insurgencies started by the two evil factions throughout the known Ashan history.

Also, the autumn plains could be a nostalgic hint at the Westland terrain from H2, sharing a similar color palette (reds, browns and golds).

Finally, Elves occupy autumn-like magical forests in Disciples III, so copying and pasting this feature into H6 would be just blatant ripping.

We all know that the current looks of Necropolis emerged under heavy influences from the World of Warcraft universe, but at least Black Hole have mixed things up to a point when you can't just exclaim 'Hey, that's just copy and paste!' (OK, I know some of you did).

Elves to me seem a less likely candidate to be the fourth comeback faction, as this would mean no Wizards (as the 5th faction is brand new) and no Dark Elves (since they're historically tied to the normal Elves and would look like a dog's fifth leg if the Elves aren't in).

Now let's guess what the brand new faction might be. First of all, we have the jungle terrain. The only small patch of jungle within the reach of the Holy Falcon Empire lies north to Al-Safir. This could explain the presence of Sveltana the Necromancer in that area, since it's relatively close to Heresh,  and her mentioning the human duchies of the Stag, the Unicorn and the Wolf, since to the north of the jungle starts the human empire. As seen from the screenshots, Sveltana orchestrates guerilla strikes against the Haven faction from her newly founded base in the jungle.

In this screenshot I clearly see something like a watchtower with snake-like imagery and a roof section stylized to have 'fish fins' and a scale-like texture. Of course we all heard about the water snake boss from the demo, but could this unusual architecture stuff be a hint to something larger than just a single creature?

My favorite candidates for the fifth faction:

1. The Naga faction. Totally brand new, known from the lore, although I don't completely understand how and why they could possibly leave their distant homeland in the eastern jungle and cover thousands of miles across the ocean to set up a base in the dense rainforest between the Knights' and Wizards' lands.

2. The Lizardmen faction. Not actually brand new, but may come with lots of new creatures and ultimately the Black Dragon as their top tier creature. Just because if the Wizards are in, that means no Elves, and thus no Dark Elves, and thus nowhere to place the Dragons. Well, the Black Dragon may serve as an avatar of Urgash as Inferno's top tier unit, but that seems to me a very unlikely whim of the devs' fancy.

3. The Naga faction, brand new as a political entity, but featuring some well-known creatures like lizardmen, hydras, wyverns and possibly an avatar of their dragon god, looking like a blueish water dragon (to replace the black dragon).

My backup scenario:

The fourth comeback faction are the elves. The brand new faction are the Faceless, with the emerging dark elves only as a single unit type in their army (the game promo features a story about a slain but resurrected archangel general raising forces to face an ancient enemy, and it was the Faceless who fought the angels in an ancient war between the elder races)

Anyway, that Czech preview (and a number of other articles) contains pieces of information hinting at a nature-related faction who favor ambushes, rapid strikes, paralysation and tactics focusing on finishing battles as soon as possible. This both fits Elves and jungle-dwelling reptile-like creatures. Paralyzing might stand for abilities like wyvern venom and basilisk gaze.

As I'm typing this message, a voice from my ICQ messenger tells me that the Phoenix is officially announced as a neutral creature. This makes me think the Elves are out (until an expansion pack arrives, hopefully). Black Hole seem to have entirely dropped all duplicate designs in favor of more original creatures, like bone dragons and black knights sent down the chute for being too much like the normal dragons and the normal knights in their combat functionality and appearance. Even the Haven's Sentinel seems to have adopted a spear and a shield not to clone the Vampire Knight but rather work as its opposite.

So if Elves were to get a decent champion creature, that would be the phoenix and surely not a dragon. Introducing the phoenix as a neutral creature might hint that the Sylvan faction is in a very early design stage and not scheduled for a comeback in March '2011.

The war between the High and Dark Elves sounds like a cool plot for an expansion pack. Meanwhile the Wizards may play a huge part in taking down the demons and the walking dead, as they always did and would do for centuries since that day, and the Naga/Lizardmen would play like a neutral faction with some shady business interests in the region.

The only obvious weak point in my speculations is how could the human emperor have slept with a Naga girl to produce the half-brother who's likely to lead the mysterious fifth faction... Although such an unconventional turn of the plot may be a good explanation why the Naga led by the ostracized half-brother would rush onto the Empire -- just to legally claim the crown while everyone else is losing their head in the turmoil caused by the evil guys.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 10:13 PM

Quote:
the faceless are called the no-faces xD they are said to have created the dark elves


I'm not denying that. That's actual lore.
But it is also lore that they are almost wiped out in the Elder Wars. It also says that the one who taught the Dark Elves was one of the few that survived.
There are only a handfull left. A few do not make an entire nation. There are simply to few to be anyway playable. As Elvin said, they make good endbosses, but little more for there are to few of them.
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Iron from Ice.

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Dexter
Dexter


Known Hero
posted August 27, 2010 10:18 PM

If I were to place my bets on the factions I'd say: Stronghold and Sanctuary (Nagas). But that's just an assumption on my side.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 27, 2010 10:23 PM

Timeline says that it was rumored that they were wiped out and that there are few of them left. They can still have a faction, but most of their faction would have lots of minions or even dark elven servants (but you can't call it a new town, if it will have tons of dark elves in it).

Timeline says this to Academy:
The other disciples, led by Sar-Shazzar, the most gifted of them all, leads an exodus of wizards and like-minded humans to found the Seven Cities (the first kingdom of Magic) in the southern deserts.

To me, it is not clear that it has always been a desert there. To me, the text means that currently, as of H5, there are deserts there.

I think it is very possible that there once was a jungle there because later in the timeline it says that "The ancient cities are destroyed and much of the land is rendered uninhabitable.".

The terrain from the screenshos seem to be jungle.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 10:33 PM

Quote:
Timeline says that it was rumored that they were wiped out and that there are few of them left. They can still have a faction, but most of their faction would have lots of minions or even dark elven servants (but you can't call it a new town, if it will have tons of dark elves in it).


That would make them the Ashan equivalent of Pandas ruling the Chinese. I don't see that happening.
Also, if they were still around, why weren't they in HoMMV then? Why were Black Dragons top-dogs in Dungeon?

And to that do not answer because they were wiped out in HoMMVI. Because that wasn't in the works when the timeline was created.
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Iron from Ice.

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted August 27, 2010 10:33 PM

Quote:
But it would feel much more reassuring to hear either from VIP members or devs themselves that they are not entirely abandoning the good old Wizards and Elves we've known since the very beginning of the series.


Even if we knew, which we don't, we couldn't possibly get specific about anything like that at this point.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted August 27, 2010 10:40 PM

It would seem that they are removing a lot of the randomness in hero development, with less of "man let this skill pop up on level-up please please" and more control.

I hope they apply this to the way you get spells as well, so that spells available in Mage Guilds (or something similar) is no longer random (though the available schools of magic could still be defined by your Faction's magic preferences).

After all, developing your hero around a certain spell and then finding out that the Almighty Dragon God of Random did not grant you that spell in your guild... would kinda suck.

I'd propose a system where you not only pay for the Magic Guild, but also pay for the spells. A Hero that has been developed towards maximizing the potential of... let's say the Puppet Master spell, could be guaranteed to get that spell by paying for it, but the cost of learning that spell would make him suffer in other areas (such as developing your town, buying creatures etc.)

Just brainstorming.
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baklajan
baklajan


Adventuring Hero
posted August 27, 2010 10:46 PM
Edited by baklajan at 00:09, 28 Aug 2010.

Could the plot go like this? Using a few officially announced facts, I put forward this hypothesis:

1. An eclipse arrives, releasing the demons.

2. Knowing that and seeking revenge, a Faceless survivor manipulates the Emperor's youngest daughter to slay her father.

3. The murder results in a global scale political turmoil and multiple insurgencies across the Empire, making it a lovely target for the demon hosts.

4. The parricidal princess is executed and rises as a vampire. This newly born vampire is adopted by the Necromancers plotting to seize the crown, and ultimately becomes the necromancer queen (maybe through slaying the former necromancer king who'd been overly manipulative and refused to give her enough freedom, lol)

5. A royal family member (Kirill) goes crazy after witnessing the deaths of his father and his sister, and gradually becomes possessed by a demon. The demons use him as a gifted politician and general to boost their already successful expansion on the world's surface. It's natural to expect them lusting for the crown more than anyone else, because of their extremely unruly and power-hungry nature.

6. The youngest royal daughter, who's married to a powerful Wizard prince, arrives with her army of wizards to aid the Empire in their war (and claim the crown of course).

7. A misbegotten, ostracized and long-forgotten half-naga secret child of the late Emperor leads a Naga fleet from the farthest East to secretly stage an occupation of the Empire and all neighboring lands while their masters are struggling against each other.

8. At the very end of the game, in the (officially?) announced 6th campaign unlocked after the player finishes the five other campaigns, a coalition of heroes descends into the underworld, most likely chasing the demons back to Sheogh, and unknowingly disturbs a hideout or a prison containing the few surviving Faceless.

9. The Faceless say, 'LOL that was our plan to kill your emperor and provoke the archangel general, now you all die' and rush out of their hiding place to wreak havoc across the planet's surface.

10. An expansion pack starts, witnessing a civil war among the Elves and the emergence of the Dark Elves due to the Faceless' involvement ('cause they are too few, they can't survive without an army of mortal minions)

P.S. My rudimentary knowledge of French suggests that the Necropolis line-up posted at Archangel Castle forums is purely speculative, since the very thread is titled The Circle of Prophets and starts with an invitation to share one's fancy on possible line-ups...

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 27, 2010 11:01 PM

Forgot a few things about ressources from the french site :

- The rare ressource is named "crystallized dragon blood"
- It will be possible to put units in the forts controlling your areas

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 11:02 PM

I'm already seeing several flaws in your theory, Baklajan. I'll adress them by point in which you numbered.

2: The Griffin-dynasty aren't the Emperors. The Falcons are. The Griffins rule the Duchy of Griffin and they are Dukes.

5: The Demons do not posses other mortals. The Demons seduce people with the prospect of total freedom.
Also, Demons do not crave power. They whish to destroy.

7: Likely Naga and Humans cannot produce offspring at all. (Resisting making Ostrich jokes)

8: If the Faceless are hiding anywhere, they're certainly not doing it in Sheogh. The Demons would destroy them as they would anything else.

9: The Faceless are certainly not that powerfull. They would be on par with Angels or weaker.(They lost for a reason.)
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Charrclaw
Charrclaw


Known Hero
posted August 27, 2010 11:08 PM
Edited by Charrclaw at 23:13, 27 Aug 2010.

I don't see how Nagas can be 5th faction if you play a role of 5 HUMANS . It would be weird for a human to lead an army of naga, it's just wrong.

I would say it could be early civilization of dark elves ( since they didn't enslave man-beasts)

Edited: If the camera is fixed for what purpose is then a border lines Here on mini-map that we had in H5? I think we'll be able to zoom AND rotate, or someone is playing with me 0.0
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Burn your crosses, make way for science.

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Astromidas
Astromidas


Hired Hero
posted August 27, 2010 11:29 PM

It would be kinda strange if Academy and Sylvan wouldn't be in the game, I think. Academy is the strongest candidate to symbolise the "Magic" part of "Might & Magic" (and for "Might" I would choose Inferno, of the factions we now know). And a elf would make the most sense to be one of the half aspect of the "half-brother" we have heard about in the campaign. But in this case it could be a dark elf but it seems a little off to me.

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baklajan
baklajan


Adventuring Hero
posted August 27, 2010 11:34 PM
Edited by baklajan at 23:41, 27 Aug 2010.

Quote:
2: The Griffin-dynasty aren't the Emperors. The Falcons are. The Griffins rule the Duchy of Griffin and they are Dukes.

Quote:
5: The Demons do not posses other mortals. The Demons seduce people with the prospect of total freedom.
Also, Demons do not crave power. They whish to destroy.


Quoting the biggest Russian HoMM fansite ( http://heroes.ag.ru/h6/ )
Quote:
The plot in a nutshell. The Emperor Pavel Griffin is slain by his own daughter Anastasia. Anastasia is executed but rises as a vampire. Anton, Pavel's eldest son, is the heir to the throne, but displays signs of mental illness. Anastasia's twin brother Kirill is so depressed by the deaths of his sister and father that he lets a demon possess his soul.


I believe this was on the news recently, and the Russian text is merely a translation. This variant of the game's story is featured on many Russian sites, all of which credit ag.ru as the source, and ag.ru claims that this is just a rendering of a German preview in Russian translated by ag.ru staff. Dated around August 17th.

Quote:
7: Likely Naga and Humans cannot produce offspring at all. (Resisting making Ostrich jokes)

"The Faceless are real, unless explicitly declared as Integer". I mean... we know almost nothing about the Naga. They aren't likely to produce offspring with humans... unless explicitly stated otherwise by the developers.

Quote:
8: If the Faceless are hiding anywhere, they're certainly not doing it in Sheogh. The Demons would destroy them as they would anything else.

Did I really say the Faceless resided in Sheogh? It's officially announced that the plot revolves around a provoked Archangel general who seeks to destroy his ancient enemies and uses the demon invasion as a convenient pretext to convince some factions to band up and start a crusade. Following this, I'm inclined to think the prison / hiding place of the Faceless might be somewhere in between the planet surface and Sheogh, like the deep underground where Dark Elves dwell in H5 (and where they supposedly met the surviving faceless about the time H6 begins). In the days of H6, getting there must have been impossible or politically unachievable without messing with the demons.

Quote:
9: The Faceless are certainly not that powerfull. They would be on par with Angels or weaker.(They lost for a reason.)

This perfectly explains why they chose to 'adopt' the future Dark Elves and had to exploit chances like the nearing eclipse, etc. etc. I won't be surprised if the Faceless are the Dark Elf champion-class unit in an expansion pack.

Quote:
I think. Academy is the strongest candidate to symbolise the "Magic" part of "Might & Magic" (and for "Might" I would choose Inferno, of the factions we now know).

The best phrase in the whole thread so far. Splendid. That makes a lot of sense. A Might & Magic title without the most magical faction... sounds at least clumsy. I knew I was missing something... now it's clear why I felt it so wrong to let the Academy go (personally I'm neither Academy nor Sylvan fanboy).

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