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| Thread: Excited, but I have Concerns... | |
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Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted September 10, 2010 10:28 PM |
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Excited, but I have Concerns...
I am of course very excited that HOMM6 is imminent, but I have some concerns as well. Below are a list of them, and I'm hoping that someone close "in the know" can shed some light on them:
- Removal of Initiative. I certainly agree that initiative was a bit broken in HOMM5 (especially with artifacts that gave or reduced it by up to 20%), but the removal of the concept completely removes an aspect of the in-battle strategy. Doesn't this mean battles will be simpler?
- Reduction in Resources. Maybe I need to read more on this, but it has been my understanding that HOMM6 will rely a lot less on the need for resources. This too reduces strategy, timing, and even some excitement. It also makes me wonder "what are we going to be trying to take over on the map now besides another player's castle or a dwelling?".
- Only 5 factions. I think this would be enough for the first 4 to 6 months of the game, but if history is any indicator then the expansions will be too far after initial release to mitigate this. Again, I feel like this will simplify the game further, which isn't a great thing.
- Talent trees w/o randomization. Typically I'd like this, but if the history of Homm is any indicator then some talents will be more desirable than others, and others will be completely avoided (i.e. homm5 summon magic). My concern is that I'll be practically forced to pick the same stuff everytime I play with a specific faction.
Overall my impression is that HOMM is becoming more like Kings Bounty. While I loved Kings Bounty, I don't want HOMM to be like it. The bosses, graphics, (lack of) resources, and talent trees in the hero spec all look VERY similar to KB so far.
Fancy graphics and simplification don't impress me. I look for strategy, variety, and a myriad of options to choose from. Hopefully someone can help enlighten me on what's in store for HOMM6 that is different than my impression 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 10, 2010 10:57 PM |
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Combat will be more interesting than before both due to the new combat arena specifics and the new tier system designed for unit combos and supporting each other. I've seen too much init imbalance not to miss it but if the values were better designed I would probably support initiative back in the game. At any rate it will at least help with balancing.
Resource reduction doesn't come with the same old adventure map There will be new things to do, I can guarantee that much.
I am not happy about the 5 factions either. But they might prove more complex than before who knows? Can't really tell atm.
About the skill system I'd say it's more about having the right counters than the perfect build as was mostly the case in H5, how many factions HAD to have a specific build? Though it did suck that some could always use the same old boring build like haven. I'd say we can expect better balance this time around but the only way to know is testing and that may not come just yet.
As a general comment H6 is not being dumbed down, it is just focusing more on specific things for the purpose of a smoother gameplay. The better way to assess it would be not to think with the previous heroes logic since a few things have changed. For instance think about the H5 resource costs, they tried to make them part of balancing factions with each other and that failed horribly. At 1.3 patch they redid the whole resource costs tree and it was still silly since certain dwellings were rarely built in multiplayer. In H3 it worked because 3DO knew how to make resources important but not utterly essential, they were within reason. Anyway for what it's worth those who played the pre-alpha version said that it does feel like heroes
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2010 10:58 PM |
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Quote:
- Removal of Initiative. I certainly agree that initiative was a bit broken in HOMM5 (especially with artifacts that gave or reduced it by up to 20%), but the removal of the concept completely removes an aspect of the in-battle strategy. Doesn't this mean battles will be simpler?
The H3 system while not perfect was easier to understand than the H5 one. The concept "Each unit will act once and only once per turn" also makes it a bit easier on the balancing, but it's not the best choice. They should have worked on upgrading the H5 system instead.
Quote:
- Reduction in Resources. Maybe I need to read more on this, but it has been my understanding that HOMM6 will rely a lot less on the need for resources. This too reduces strategy, timing, and even some excitement. It also makes me wonder "what are we going to be trying to take over on the map now besides another player's castle or a dwelling?".
It's quite the opposite. Less resources imply that we'll be more dependant on them. Until now, each faction have more or less always been dependant on 4 resources (ore, wood, gold and 1 rare resource) but the 4th resource was not always the same from one faction to the other.
It's too early to say that it will reduce strategy, especially since we haven't seen anything about that dragon blood availability nor about the buildings/creatures costs. All we know is that by reducing the amount of resources, Ubisoft is wanting us to battle for each resource.
Quote:
- Only 5 factions. I think this would be enough for the first 4 to 6 months of the game, but if history is any indicator then the expansions will be too far after initial release to mitigate this. Again, I feel like this will simplify the game further, which isn't a great thing.
I prefer 5 perfectly balanced factions than 7 unbalanced ones. Don't get me wrong, like everyone else I'd love to have more factions but H5 was terrible on that aspect. There have been severe unbalances for very long and it became even worse with the arrival of the Fortress.
With 5 perfectly balanced factions, multiplayer could be awesome.
Quote:
- Talent trees w/o randomization. Typically I'd like this, but if the history of Homm is any indicator then some talents will be more desirable than others, and others will be completely avoided (i.e. homm5 summon magic). My concern is that I'll be practically forced to pick the same stuff everytime I play with a specific faction.
It's one of my fear as well. I hope they'll make it so several builds per hero will be viable and not only one must-have uber build. On the other hand, I've hated the randomness of skills since Heroes 2 (like getting Navigation on a map without water  )
Quote:
Overall my impression is that HOMM is becoming more like Kings Bounty. While I loved Kings Bounty, I don't want HOMM to be like it. The bosses, graphics, (lack of) resources, and talent trees in the hero spec all look VERY similar to KB so far.
Too early to say that, even if they're "stealing" a lot of ideas from KB. The main difference between KB and HoMM is that HoMM supports multiplayer while KB doesn't (which is its hugest flaw). I hope H6 won't just be a KB with multiplayer because KB was just about bruteforcing your way through the story.
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Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted September 11, 2010 12:42 AM |
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Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I'll have to wait and see, and I'm interested to see what else is on the map to do/conquer. From the demo it looked like the same 2-way portal leading to an area with the same 4-leaf clover artifact.. just with better graphics lol.
I'm thinking of downloading and playing H2 or H3 a bit this weekend just to see what I think now since it has been so long!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted September 11, 2010 01:18 AM |
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We (VIP forum) shared almost all the concerns you voiced here, especially the resources issue - I don't think anyone agreed with that initially. I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether that decision will lead to a better game or not. We've also pointed out the similarities to King's Bounty. You needn't worry about being ill-represented. 
Regarding lower number of factions: it's worth considering that more factions could, in a sense, require less variety as a tradeoff (i.e. on a gameplay level, H3's factions and hero classes were overall very similar aside from stats, special buildings and minor things). You can expect each faction to have a much stronger sense of individuality in H6, but with plenty of potential playing styles as well.
Unfortunately, it isn't so cheap or easy to develop and balance 6-8 races with this model in mind.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2010 10:05 AM |
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Yeah, it's more easily said than done. Most games opt for a small amount of factions but they are distinctive enough for replay value and all. Plus the 7th and 8th factions of H5 got some bad reactions by the fans so obviously in the end the bigger number won't matter at all.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2010 10:27 AM |
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Yeah, making the factions unique is good, but IMO a lot of the racial skills took it too far, making mixing factions totally unworkable, I mean, why did mini-artefacts only work for Academy troops or Rune magic for Fortress ones? and why was Haven the only town allowed to upgrade its troops, and Warlocks the only heroes allowed to learn Elemental Chains?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 11, 2010 01:45 PM |
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To prevent abuses.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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seddy
Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
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posted September 11, 2010 05:10 PM |
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Well, imagine might-oriented Heaven with mini-arties on their already powerful creatures... Or Academy with elemental and empowered spells (infinite mana would make it easy to pay for). So yeah... I'm glad factions are unique ^^
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 11, 2010 05:27 PM |
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As this thread does not contain anything new, or focus on any particular feature of the upcoming game, I'll ask you to continue the discussion in the general Heroes 6 Discussion thread.
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What will happen now?
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