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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 140 141 142 143 144 ... 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 03, 2011 10:47 PM
Edited by kodial79 at 22:48, 03 Feb 2011.

Quote:
ok maybe it took like 2-3 seconds and I did not really care (just jumped on the QQ train I guess) but I still think VERY WELL-DONE 2D town screens are better than 3D screens.


Well, I disagree with that. Nothing looked better in any Heroes game, than H5's 3D Town Screens. H2 and H3 were not anywhere half as good as those of H5. That is my opinion.

Besides, I never liked the idea of having all the buildings obvious from one angle, that is in 2D. I like rotating manually the camera, zooming in and out to explore the town in detail. I think it's being realistic like that too.

In H3's town screens, it was also very annoying how in some cases, the buildings were overlapping each other and getting lost behind them. Stronghold comes to mind.

Besides now some unique shapes for the town screens that they had in H5, cannot be implemented anymore, such as the Town Screens of the Fortress and Academy, which were my personal favorite too.


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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 03, 2011 10:52 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 23:09, 03 Feb 2011.

To be fair, though, the landscapes we've seen so far look truely beautiful and stunning, so I do have confidence that the town screens will look good - as long as they keep a coherent style and art for each one unlike the Heroes 4 ones.
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What will happen now?

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 03, 2011 10:56 PM

Quote:
To be fair, thought, the landscapes we've seen so far look truely beautiful and stunning, so I do have confidence that the town screens will look good - as long as they keep a coherent style and art for each one unlike the Heroes 4 ones.


But the landscapes and town models and buildings on them are 3D. If you think about it, it should be these models and creature dwellings that need to be turn to 2D for the Town Screens. Wonder how's that gonna work out for them if buildings that were originally made 3D now need to be converted to 2D without losing anything...

I give all a lot of praise to Ubisoft and their decisions since H5. But in this case, I don't have any faith that they can come up with something that will compensate for the loss of the 3D Town Screens.
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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted February 03, 2011 11:05 PM

I don't think it's a matter of 2D versus 3D, it's just whether the camera will be fixed or rotating. There shouldn't be any problem using the 3D structures with a fixed camera, so you can view you whole town at once.

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2011 11:09 PM

Quote:
H4's screens could not even be called towns. They were just three rows of buildings.


You could say that yes, but it was due to several reasons, like the alternate dwellings and corresponding to plain types. Same way you could argue most towns in H5 weren't really towns, but very elaborate big pillars with dwellings as its accessories so the camera could rotate around it in full circle. I can see why some people were turned off by them, for example after Rampart's nice scenery we get one big tree as a town.

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted February 03, 2011 11:10 PM

A lot of people - not everybody, by any means, but a lot of people - wouldn't consider it a loss.  The fact that we're having this discussion at all is evidence of that.

I didn't realize I could turn off the fly-through; that would probably make things run a bit smoother, although everything I've ever heard about the subject has indicated that camera control is one of the most difficult things to execute in game design, and including it purely for aesthetics, when at least a plurality of the fans prefer the "diorama effect" from H4 and earlier (though most of us exclude H4 itself as a rule, much like people would tell you there were only ever two Godfather movies), would be a waste of company resources; it would be cheaper, and therefore better overall, to convince the fans that preferred the 3D towns that an effective, stunning 2D screen can be pulled off.  And if they win you over on that subject - most likely by spending more time on actually designing the artwork, rather than on coding floating cameras into it - then that's better for them.

And it's better for me, too, because I happen to like the Diorama better.  Of course I doubt it will be as simple as a throwback; I imagine they have something more interesting in mind than a bunch of paper dolls thrown together in a shoebox...

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted February 03, 2011 11:28 PM

I have to say that I personally was never a huge fan of Academy's layout in Heroes V; it felt somewhat nonsensical and impossible to be a functioning town. Not every town screen in Heroes V looked dysfunctional, but I felt the 3-d layouts of several of them were relatively incoherent.

That's not to suggest that they will be automatically better in 2D, however.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted February 03, 2011 11:44 PM

I suspect that regardless of whether it was 3D or 2D, the new town screens will at least be comparable to the ones that came before.  H4 was an exception, but the goal of the design teams has always been to create something new and interesting - I highly doubt that they would intentionally make something boring.

And if the adventure map and unit design is any indication, Black Hole is putting a lot of care into the way they lay things out.  If they haven't finalized the town screens yet, it's because they see the improvements they need to make and are working on making them.  That's a good sign, not a bad one.

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted February 04, 2011 12:51 AM
Edited by Cepheus at 00:51, 04 Feb 2011.

I may or may not have heard that we're looking for some redoubled discussions regarding the map editor at this time, specifically any major requests you might have. Not too late to implement your desires
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted February 04, 2011 01:02 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 04 Feb 2011.

First and Foremost (and also most likely to make everyone groan, since I've been harping on this for a while now):  Make the Editor available for all versions of the game, including Mac releases.

PC users are great, but for those of us who prefer Macs, we'd like to still be able to play around with things.  I was frustrated and annoyed when I discovered that I couldn't access the editor for Heroes V on my Mac.

</soapbox>

I'd like the ability to alter castle recruitment - so for instance, if Joe doesn't like the Inferno line-up because he thinks a Fire Elemental would fit better where the Tormenter currently is, he just does a quick switch-up in the editor, and Town C suddenly can recruit Fire Elementals instead of Tormenters.  This shouldn't be too difficult to implement, and it could even make adding new creatures (for the modder's workshop, at least) a little bit simpler.

Also, the ability to specify otherwise random elements:  in Heroes V, you would go to the Witch's Hut, and sometimes she would teach you Sorcery, and sometimes she would teach you Luck, and (in Heroes III) sometimes she would try to teach you Necromancy.  If you could specify the skill being taught to you, that would make Witch's Huts a bit more appealing to experienced players.  Apart from that, being able to decide how much of a resource is in a pile would be useful.

All of these are, of course, things I'd like to see having had no experience with the H5 editor (because I couldn't); but if they're already there, then take this as my vote that they should remain.

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SkySlam
SkySlam


Adventuring Hero
posted February 04, 2011 01:09 AM

Quote:

I'd like the ability to alter castle recruitment



I couldn't agree more! Custom recruitments and the chance to "fairly easily" import custom models and icons in the game would be great.
Customizability is the key word for me!

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted February 04, 2011 01:19 AM

Ultimately, what I'd want to do with it is create a castle comprised solely of neutrals.  If there could be a Neutral-base town that would facilitate that, that would be even better, but if not, being able to alter the line-up of an existing faction's town would be just fine.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 04, 2011 01:22 AM

I would like it to be easier to change creatures stats, abilities and visuals etc.

In atleast H5, you had to go through the SUPER MESSY files. Creature textures where spread all over the place and not in the same spot!

In games such as Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2, changing stats and adding abilities etc for creatures is really easy and there are features for that in the editor. You do not have to go into the files in those editors.

So I would like a feature which allows us to change the stats and add abilities to creatures and perhaps even retexture them without having to go inside the files.

In SC2, it is even possible to create completly new units by mixing actual parts of old creatures together.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted February 04, 2011 02:40 AM

As far as requests for the map editor go? Make it as accessible as possible without sacrificing too much depth. The HIII editor was great because anybody could jump in and start making a map. Obviously, editors must of necessity be more complicated these days, but going over the interface/UI to ensure maximum accessibility would be great.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 04, 2011 02:42 AM

Maybe a little late to the party, but I don't see anything wrong with having 4 fixed camera positions for a 3D town, or for those with more powerful computers 8 position with two elevations at each.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted February 04, 2011 02:51 AM

I for one loved the 3D towns, I actually spent a lot of time zooming in there and watching stuff Yeah however gameplay is more important, naturally. I just think they cant be compared - there are different teams working on different aspects. So time spent on town screen is not away from eg balancing the factions.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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Lichking012
Lichking012


Known Hero
posted February 04, 2011 03:14 AM

A couple of things
1) make it as user friendly as Heroes 3 but with more stuff. I really really really loved my H3 map editor, everything was relatively simple. I never felt it was worth posting my stuff, but I spent a lot of time with that editor having fun. Whereas in H5, everything was a pain. It was even hard to give a town to a player with a hero.

2. Make text boxes easy to implement.
It was easy in heroes 3, a pain in H5.

3. I absolutely strongly support the ability to put neutral creatures in towns as replacements for other creatures within the editor. It allows for more unique custom maps.

4. This is more of a modding thing than a map thing exactly, but please please please please please make the game have a file structure that makes sense. I don't wanna have to dig through 100 folders to find half of a creature that it turns out isn't the creature I really want, but is another one with a completely different name in game. Also just generally make modding as simple as possible, Not having to hex edit to add a 6th town, or create another racial would be great. Overall, just the more moddible the game is the better.  

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 04, 2011 03:46 AM

The matter with 3D vs 2D town screen is a matter of flavor. I for one love both. Both offer different flavor but enjoyable. However talking about the best of the best. I still go with Rampart of Heroes 3. Call me worshiper but Rampart has the best town screen and the music fit best and talking about music, is it only me but any others feel that Heroes V town screen music is a little lack of identity I mean Necropolis, Haven and Academy at least have similar melody only different in style.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted February 04, 2011 03:51 AM bonus applied by alcibiades on 04 Feb 2011.

Quote:
we're looking for some redoubled discussions regarding the map editor at this time, specifically any major requests you might have.


Well I've talked a lot about this already but, looks like I'll do some more. If it would be helpful, I would be willing to go through and compile every comment made by all here at HC. I know there has been a lot of feedback in several threads.

Here's a little part of my wish-list.

1. "Easy interface" What I mean exactly would parakeet the Editor in H3. You could do just about anything regarding any aspect of the map with the ease of just picking between multiple selections/options. This is a very useful approach for any map-making but new folks benefit greatly.
2. To me the single most welcome return of a "Key feature" would be the "Adventure-Map-Event" placement. A map-maker could make many different things happen during gameplay on any cell on the map (by just clicking a button)
Examples:
a. Plus or minus morale or luck to player
b. Resources, troops or Artifact given to player
c. An unexpected ambush on land and pirate attacks at sea.
d. Dialogue...telling the story, giving hints or warnings etc.
e. "Needed Control" over what faction received whatever, or whether A.I. or Human could trigger an event.
3. Timed-Events This is part of the "Control" of number two. The building of dwellings or town improvements, as in an option-change regarding previously un-available upgrades.
4. Also related to all of this is that specific "Border-guard" that allowed you to give troops/artifacts etc. to a specific faction/player(remember only the green banner may pass?) or the location being only for the use of a "Specific Hero".
5. The Map Win-condition. One spot, all options for Victory.
6. Lots of variety for all terrain objects. It would be far easier for folks to make maps look a lot different if they are not limited to "one of that purpose", "Two of this Bush", "one flower", "4 mountains and 1 gate. The easy "scale parameter" I saw in a post will help a lot but we still need lots of different world "parts" to make lots of different "worlds"

Dreaming here on this one; but how about Neutral Factions? Or at least another "event" where faction status could be timed to change. Ally to foe or vice versa.

All of this together is about giving the map-designer every tool to control all aspects that a player will meet.<IMO> That is a big reason why H5 failed in "Design aspects" and needed serious fans to learn Lua etc. to try to recapture some of the lost precision. Relying on a bad A.I. is hard at best. And that brings me to a huge issue.

For what its worth...added fun;
  I have been working on my latest map in H5. Many hours invested in it. It is beautiful and well-thought-out. I started testing it 2 days ago(playing it on Heroic with map in full-view) and what happens? Because I had been silly enough to place some elemental-dwellings here and there on the map, the whole A.I. strategy for 3 different players, (1 my ally, the other 2 allied enemies)became..."get all available non-faction creatures". All of those factions started going to those elemental objects or refugee-camps, while bypassing doing the normal "getting a town up and running" by taking wood or ore mines etc. Or, their own creature dwellings much, much nearer to their towns.

  To give you and idea just how bad this was; My ally's main hero was defeated after heading completely over to the other side of a "Huge" map, carrying a rag-tag army, made-up of those various elementals and some random joiners. That faction had no structure flagged except the town. At the same time I had all resources and dwellings flagged.
I sure hope someone considers this unacceptable in H6 and makes some serious changes.
  A.I. decision trees that are built with mixed-up priorities like that make it very hard to make a Scenerio that plays in any sensible way, unless of course you do what I usually do and that is not-use several objects at all because of my "known" unwanted-results.

The truth is H3's editor was state-of the art ten+ years ago, and yet still had features superior to H5's editor. Who could guess where the HoMM Editor could be today, if that one had been tweeked and turbo-charged?


So the bottom line is; we need the most control possible on what can happen on a map.      

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted February 04, 2011 05:21 AM

Quote:
people,people remember... when a hero gets a new artifact, his appearance will change on the battlefield and on the map and stuff. My guess is that these heroes have no items and because of that, looks weak and unimpressive. If they looked AWSOME AS SHIIIIT without any items, it would be no point, would it


where did you get that from??? i didn't know that artefacts will change heroes appearance!!!

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