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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (26) 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Lokheit
Lokheit


Adventuring Hero
posted November 11, 2010 06:01 AM
Edited by Lokheit at 07:32, 11 Nov 2010.

I think that the medusa statue is in fact a Namtaru statue:





That said, I also think that if we're seeing a Naga faction it will feature many reptiles (lizardmen, basilisk, medusa, hydra, etc).

And for the "too magical and glowing" haven units, I actually like it. I'm not a hardcore haven player but I like them this way and a friend that always plays with them is excited with the new designs.

A weird note on the sucubi: On the description it's said that there are incubi and sucubi (males and females) and that they have shape-shifting powers... as the only model you see on game seems to be the sucubi, maybe the temptress woman who seduced your brave sun crusader is in fact a male incubi posing as a sucubi with his shapeshifpting abilities...

And finally one question, I asked it one or two months ago but I can't recall if I was ansewered:

The Core and Elite pool (as champion is composed by one tier I don't include them here). Every creature count as "1" for the pool or depending on the power they will count as more so you can pick many of the weak core units or just some of the strong core units? For example, asuming that the skeletons, ghouls and "djinn ghost" (it works now more like a djinn than just antishooters for what I've seen) are all core units, would 1 skeleton consume the same that 1 ghost or would it be something like: skeleton takes 10 points (100/10) of the pool, ghoul takes 16.6 (100/6) and ghost takes 25 (100/4) of a pool of for example 400 points so you can create up to 40 skeletons/or 26 ghouls/ or 16 ghosts and then choose how to distribute the points (for example: 14 skeletons + 8 ghouls + 5 ghosts = 397.8 points/400)

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted November 11, 2010 06:06 AM

Namtaru 'hair' don't look serpentine in the artwork.
____________
We are Groot.

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Lokheit
Lokheit


Adventuring Hero
posted November 11, 2010 06:10 AM
Edited by Lokheit at 06:36, 11 Nov 2010.

Quote:
Namtaru 'hair' don't look serpentine in the artwork.


My fault then, I though the first time I saw that the "regular namtaru" hair (not the big boss) was more serpent-like than just tentacles.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted November 11, 2010 08:08 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 08:09, 11 Nov 2010.

The Haven unit Sun Riders and upgrade, in my opinion, are modified from the usual Knights (se no point in change the mount from a regular one in to a sunny on), with the sole purpose of making the goods more involved with the patron faction (or creating that impression).

But true to be said it not`s bad concept and even if it’s a graphic modification (don`t think that it`s purpose and way of working have been changed) and makes it more fitting with the general idea that’s been developed for this installment.

Succubus … not much to say, just the usual about the inferno faction just adding flame doesn’t seam sufficient for all of the units.

P.S. Make`s it really difficult to organize a surprise attack when your troupes give out light … much less during the night …

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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted November 11, 2010 08:57 AM

One thing is bothering me now. On the overall, the new Heroes game ends looking like a mash-up of what already exists.

What do people like in Wow, the best selling MMO ? Answer : hero leveling.
-> right, we'll use it in MM:H

What do people like in Starcraft I and II ? Answer : different gameplay for races
-> right, we'll use it too

Same thing for resources (insert a game name here)
-> right, we'll use only 3 + gold as everybody

Finally, using all those aspects for MM:H makes me wonder whether we'll still have the same feeling playing it, or if it will only ends into a big mash-up without its own "spirit".

However I'm eager to play the game and judge by myself.
____________
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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted November 11, 2010 11:03 AM

Quote:

What do people like in Wow, the best selling MMO ? Answer : hero leveling.
-> right, we'll use it in MM:H

Been with the game since HoMMI.

Quote:

What do people like in Starcraft I and II ? Answer : different gameplay for races
-> right, we'll use it too

This has been intended from HoMMI as well, and partially succeeded, in HoMMV they decided to ramp this up.


Quote:

Same thing for resources (insert a game name here)
-> right, we'll use only 3 + gold as everybody

Design based on necessity, they should have done that from the start.
Can't think of any specific game that uses 4 different resources though.
I think 4 is a fine number, cutting more then that would start to effect certain core aspects of gameplay and not give us enough map objectives to cover.

Quote:

However I'm eager to play the game and judge by myself.

Can only applaud you for that, but I'm also of the opinion it's ok to judge a game BEFORE you buy it, as long as you spend time researching it reasonably thoroughly.
How else can you excuse NOT buying a game if you've never tried it?

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted November 11, 2010 11:26 AM

Quote:
Quote:
How else can you excuse NOT buying a game if you've never tried it?

Like, I dunno, "I'm not interested in it"?

And then the idiots say:
"How can you tell if you've never played it?"
and then I say:
"Because I have a pretty good idea how much I will like it, and can tell you some of the stuff I don't like about it, like X, Y and Z."

Then again, you shouldn't care about it anyway, so...
HAHA Veco AND Touche Veco, in the same post.

Sometimes I enjoy being contradictory.

The point is, they shouldn't care, but you should, you should try to find and enjoy good games, and should try and avoid ones you don't like.

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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted November 11, 2010 11:33 AM

Quote:
Quote:

What do people like in Wow, the best selling MMO ? Answer : hero leveling.
-> right, we'll use it in MM:H



Huh? You're joking right? Previously hero didn't level up?


Don't get me wrong.
The system that will be used in H6 for leveling is much more close to the Warcraft's one (points to "buy" skills and spells) than the previous Heroes' ones (choose between x skills).
I do not know if it is a good or a bad thing, but it is like that.

Quote:
Been with the game since HoMMI.


As I said, not that way.
You may not see what I mean, but it seems clear to me the leveling will not be the same as it was.



Quote:
Quote:

What do people like in Starcraft I and II ? Answer : different gameplay for races
-> right, we'll use it too

This has been intended from HoMMI as well, and partially succeeded, in HoMMV they decided to ramp this up.



Again, it has been said this will change in H6.
The "different" gameplay in H5 were only due to the different creatures and heroes' skills, as well as for previous Heroes.
There were nothing like "a rusher race, a longlasting race, etc.".
In H1 -> H5 you could play rusher with any faction.
The fact every faction will have its own unique gameplay is new to Heroes.
And that comes, as stated officially, from Starcraft.

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted November 11, 2010 11:43 AM
Edited by Danny at 11:55, 11 Nov 2010.

Quote:
One thing is bothering me now. On the overall, the new Heroes game ends looking like a mash-up of what already exists.


But the original Heroes was already that, it never meant to break new ground, it was only giving a simpler and cleaner gameplay of the TBD fantasy games. Most of the creatures and factions were directly taken from D&D and mythology stuff. I believe H2-3 got big mainly because it was a breath of fresh air during the RTS-mania. Also, games are influenced by each other, at this time and age it's not easy for anyone to develop a game that reinvents the wheel, let alone the do that with a long-running established series (not even mentioning the rigid part of the fanbase who'd only want a H3 re-issue).

In case of things like the Warhammer rip off of Dark Elves, I'd agree it's quite cheap, but stuff like the Blizzard-inspired faction difference or the area of control, that's just keeping on with the times and they don't really make a game a "mash-up".

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted November 11, 2010 11:50 AM
Edited by MrDragon at 11:53, 11 Nov 2010.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong.
The system that will be used in H6 for leveling is much more close to the Warcraft's one (points to "buy" skills and spells) than the previous Heroes' ones (choose between x skills).
I do not know if it is a good or a bad thing, but it is like that.

As I said, not that way.
You may not see what I mean, but it seems clear to me the leveling will not be the same as it was.

Rather then pointing at World of Warcraft, I'd point at almost any RPG.
Getting rid of the RNG in the system is a good thing and was done with that in mind.
They are just using World of Warcraft as an example because everybody and their grandmother's dog knows what World of Warcraft is.

Also, we still don't know exactly how it's going to work, there are many ways to implement a point-buy per level system.
It could be a tree based structure similar to Diablo's skill trees.
I'm confident it's going to link back to the skill format of Heroes though, that's what makes the most sense.


Quote:

Again, it has been said this will change in H6.
The "different" gameplay in H5 were only due to the different creatures and heroes' skills, as well as for previous Heroes.
There were nothing like "a rusher race, a longlasting race, etc.".
In H1 -> H5 you could play rusher with any faction.
The fact every faction will have its own unique gameplay is new to Heroes.
And that comes, as stated officially, from Starcraft.


First off:
You obviously have been playing a different HoMMV then I have then, HoMMV has unique gameplay for every faction.
They want to carry on and make this even more apparent in HoMMVI, especially now that they are taking out the RNG in the leveling process and people are far more likely to try and play the same across different factions.
Once again, they are using Starcraft as an example because Starcraft is an excellent game, best RTS I have EVER played, period.

Heroes VI is also incorporating many new mechanics, new creatures as well as good chunks of both HoMMV and HoMMIII.
It's going to have it's own identity (the quality of that identity is open to debate though I'm currently optimistic about it) and that is rather obvious.

I consider myself a rather hardcore Blizzard fan, having been played their games since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans came out.
But I'm not going to say "oh they stole that from Blizzard Game X or Y" when it's not that simple.
Certainly looking at systems and techniques from other highly successful titles is a good idea, but blatant plagiarism and following a similar design route are widely different things.

Short version: It's not as simple as just taking stuff from a different game and they are using successful titles to explain their design intent.

Edit: Danny in the post above also has some excellent points.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted November 11, 2010 12:01 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 03:14, 12 Nov 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
One thing is bothering me now. On the overall, the new Heroes game ends looking like a mash-up of what already exists.


But the original Heroes was already that, it never meant to break new ground, it was only giving a simpler and cleaner gameplay of the TBD fantasy games. Most of the creatures and factions were directly taken from D&D and mythology stuff. I believe H2-3 got big mainly because it was a breath of fresh air during the RTS-mania. Also, games are influenced by each other, at this time and age it's not easy for anyone to develop a game that reinvents the wheel, let alone the do that with a long-running established series (not even mentioning the rigid part of the fanbase who'd only want a H3 re-issue).

In case of things like the Warhammer rip off of Dark Elves, I'd agree it's quite cheap, but stuff like the Blizzard-inspired faction difference or the area of control, that's just keeping on with the times and they don't really make a game a "mash-up".



I agree with what Danny said , and regarding the mash-up, well in this day and age is difficult to come up with something totally original and/or different, Heroes 4 attempted and failed, but I see it something like this, if you manage to combine them well enough and make it a memorable experience it`s a success  .. and I cold mention here Uncharted witch bureau`s a bit of action with adventure and some platforming driven by a god story and was appreciated as one of the best games of the year 2009 (just an example).

And the ripping of of units and myth … well indeed In HoMaM 5 Dark elves ware admitted by the developers as being heavily influence by Warhammer (flat out ripped), but than again, Warcraft ripped Warhammer, Warhamer ripped Tolkien , Tolkien ripped Northern folklore  so fort and so one … what I’m training to say is it doesn’t matter how  they “mash up” the game as long as it makes sense in the given universe of HOMM and creates a pleasant and memorable felling for the player.

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Pahomije
Pahomije


Hired Hero
posted November 11, 2010 12:53 PM
Edited by Pahomije at 12:55, 11 Nov 2010.

Quote:
I think that the medusa statue is in fact a Namtaru statue:






If I understood well, Mother Namtaru is a prisoner of the nagas. So, either the Medusa thingy, who's head is on the pillar and Necro champion unit, is somehow related to Namtaru (offspring perhaps), or it is a member of naga faction (or a naga itself) and is being raised into an undead abomination. If they can raise humans, elves and dragons, they can probably raise nagas as well. Just replace the snake part with the spider part

I am also curious about the origin of the sphinx.  
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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted November 11, 2010 02:06 PM

Danny and MrDragon :
I agree with you, and I know you tell the truth when saying plagiarism and similar design are 2 different things.
When it comes about taking the best of each, there is no reason the result not being the best game possible, in theory.
Yet, even if I've liked Blizzard's games for years, I now am a fan not of RPGs like WOW nor RTS like Starscraft but of the Heroes series (*).
It is then natural I have concerns about how all those new mechanisms will be put together. You mentioned H4, I hope nothing like that will ever see the light of day again !
I must say knowing such fans as Elvin, Cepheus and others are involved in the process is reassuring, indeed.
But then again, I will not have a definitive mind before the final product is in my hands.

(*) to MrDragon : I have played all Heroes from II to V, let's just say we have played it differently
____________
Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!

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blizz
blizz


Known Hero
of temper grace
posted November 11, 2010 02:32 PM

Quote:
Namtaru 'hair' don't look serpentine in the artwork.

It does to me, but i guess its hard to tell from that picture.
I think we can agree those are not dreadlocks..

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted November 11, 2010 05:40 PM

The namtaru are spirits/personifications of death so I don't think they are related to the nagas.
____________
We are Groot.

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Zarniwooop
Zarniwooop


Hired Hero
posted November 12, 2010 01:42 AM

Hmmm

I deeply love this series, and I read the information provided.

It sounds okay, but I never like things being streamlined.

There hasn't been a great HoMM (in my opinion) since HoMM3, so I remain somewhat cynical until they prove they can recapture the magic of this franchise.

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Mmh6James
Mmh6James


Adventuring Hero
posted November 12, 2010 04:27 AM

Love the sphinx! It's really, really amazing. It's better than the one in my imagination.
And, they're releasing new creature every second day at this time?
Maybe, after they're over with these three factions, they'll reveal the fourth one?

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Bludgeon
Bludgeon


Known Hero
posted November 12, 2010 05:48 AM

So it looks like we will know all creatures from necropolis, haven, and demonville in 10 days. There's 5 units left to disclose: 1 haven core, 1 haven elite, 1 demon core, 1 demon elite, and 1 necro champion.
Can't wait
After than, I'm guessing around nov 25th, the 4th faction will be revealed.
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kraken
kraken


Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
posted November 12, 2010 06:23 AM

The lamasus

Lamasu


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Vini Vidi Vici

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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted November 12, 2010 07:05 AM
Edited by demonge at 07:14, 12 Nov 2010.

Gosh, those lamasu really look awesome !

I can't wait to play with them.

At last new 'blood' in a necro army (Namtaru not being unveiled yet) !
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Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!

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