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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 (468) 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Supreme Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 08, 2011 11:42 AM

Quote:
For heroes, I like dark elf units that were not put in the game. Female warriors with claw gunlets and armor, and without heels.

I mean, their heroes could look like that, but units that are melee need armor and snowing claws, or twisted blades


Not all unites need to have heavy armor. in fact in can be more of a disadvantage. Fast and unites for a gerila styl fight or those that are ment for specifick terrain type do not need at any meanes armor in such amount like those that focuse on a Man-o-man batle in a large free feilde
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we
store, we teach. We are many,
and you can be one of us.

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Pacifist
Pacifist


Famous Hero
posted August 08, 2011 05:44 PM

I wanted to check the skill enlightenment (with starting bonus or not). As with H3 it's not worth the trouble for a main hero, you can only have a benefit from lv 17 at 785.000 xp (maybe useful on some XL maps or campaigns, specially with the option to reassign all skills at lv 20 though it is not yet implemented it seems). I hope it will change for some more useful bonus, like in H5 (maybe less).

Anyway the xp table from lv 1 to 21, I assume it continues to lv 30 the same way (fixed increment of 90.000 xp for each level). The fixed increment begins at lv 18 just when enlightenment gives back the investment, maybe it was the purpose...

Lv2  : 2000
Lv3  : 4750
Lv4  : 10000
Lv5  : 20000
Lv6  : 37500
Lv7  : 65000
Lv8  : 105000
Lv9  : 157500
Lv 10: 220000
Lv 11: 290000
Lv 12: 365000
Lv 13: 445000
Lv 14: 525000
Lv 15: 610000
Lv 16: 695000
Lv 17: 785000
Lv 18: 875000
Lv 19: 965000
Lv 20: 1055000
Lv 21: 1145000
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Eugene_Xaar
Eugene_Xaar


Hired Hero
posted August 08, 2011 05:53 PM
Edited by Eugene_Xaar at 17:55, 08 Aug 2011.

It is a pity that such an ugly Sylanna...

I represented its such



And turned like a Gargoyle from Disciples 3




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julle
julle


Adventuring Hero
Simply FABULOUS!
posted August 08, 2011 06:05 PM
Edited by Elvin at 18:12, 08 Aug 2011.

i definetly like your suggestion more...

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jackson
jackson


Adventuring Hero
posted August 08, 2011 06:07 PM

Quote:
It is a pity that such an ugly Sylanna...


I bet (hope) this one looks a lot better in-game...

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted August 08, 2011 07:15 PM

I actually thinks Sylanna looks a lot better than Asha,
I'm not even joking here.

But still, Xaar's suggestion is how an earth dragon should look like in the first place.

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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted August 09, 2011 12:01 AM

I wouldn't care much about Sylanna, we probably won't see it in the game anyways.
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Known Hero
posted August 09, 2011 12:50 AM

I think that all the designs are perfect. But the artwork itself sucks big time

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted August 09, 2011 03:10 AM

Quote:
I wanted to check the skill enlightenment (with starting bonus or not). As with H3 it's not worth the trouble for a main hero, you can only have a benefit from lv 17 at 785.000 xp (maybe useful on some XL maps or campaigns, specially with the option to reassign all skills at lv 20 though it is not yet implemented it seems). I hope it will change for some more useful bonus, like in H5 (maybe less).

Anyway the xp table from lv 1 to 21, I assume it continues to lv 30 the same way (fixed increment of 90.000 xp for each level). The fixed increment begins at lv 18 just when enlightenment gives back the investment, maybe it was the purpose...

Lv2  : 2000
Lv3  : 4750
Lv4  : 10000
Lv5  : 20000
Lv6  : 37500
Lv7  : 65000
Lv8  : 105000
Lv9  : 157500
Lv 10: 220000
Lv 11: 290000
Lv 12: 365000
Lv 13: 445000
Lv 14: 525000
Lv 15: 610000
Lv 16: 695000
Lv 17: 785000
Lv 18: 875000
Lv 19: 965000
Lv 20: 1055000
Lv 21: 1145000

Perhaps more interesting than the actual XP of the levels is the XP needed to GAIN a level. Let's look at those numbers:

XP needed at level:
Level  1: 2000
Level  2: 2750
Level  3: 5250
Level  4: 10000
Level  5: 17500
Level  6: 27500
Level  7: 40000
Level  8: 52500
Level  9: 62500
Level 10: 70000
Level 11: 75000
Level 12: 80000
Level 13: 80000
Level 14: 85000
Level 15: 85000
Level 16: 90000
Level 17: 90000
Level 18: 90000
Level 19: 90000
Level 20: 90000


The numbers pretty much speak for themselves ... 40.000 XP to gain level 8 - WTF? And 70.000 and more to go beyond level 10 ... that's just silly.

Even if you play at "fast" (x3) XP progression, that means you need to earn more than 25.000 XP for each level beyond level 10 - that's more than 25 treassure chests for each level, and I don't even know how many neutrals you'll have to take down to earn those amounts of XP.
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Pacifist
Pacifist


Famous Hero
posted August 09, 2011 04:37 AM

I don't have the H3 xp charts in head to compare but let's not forget it's a different game. If the skills trees will remain the same the xp chart for H6 must not be changed much (and I speak of normal levelling here). There are too many skills that can be abused if lv5 heroes are too easy to produce. It's a joke at fastest levelling to hit a learning stone and be lv5 and spam the map with architects and economists lv 2. Four heroes = 4 marketplaces + upgrade buildings - 20 %, just to mention that... Something must be done but not too much, heroes at lv 15 become monsters already ( a might hero with intimidation and only lv7 troops for example, oups). Some skills are just not worth compared to others but maybe they will have some use in specific maps who knows.

Anyway I find the fast and fastest levelling too fast for the specific map BA which is a very rich map, maybe we will have a better idea with other maps that will come next or we will have to play at hard settings in BA and consider it normal. I just find the starting heroes come with too many troops and you can hire as much as you want (hope this will be changed in some better way). That will solve already the balance betweem core, elite and champion units (if core external dwellings don't grow like trees in every map of course ).
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Supreme Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 09, 2011 04:43 AM

The requrements do not have to say everithing. Or atleast not that much for a perso "like me"  who has not playd he game yet. The question is what are the experience gaind from eache type of unite, and what is the common number of the in a onmap stack?
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we
store, we teach. We are many,
and you can be one of us.

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Pacifist
Pacifist


Famous Hero
posted August 09, 2011 08:54 AM

Maybe another use for enlightnement specialist is that he needs only 21.000 xp to create fresh lv 5 heroes (normal difficulty) that can do some nasty active or passive things . Maybe they should return to the limit of 2 (instead of 1) additional heroes/town.
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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted August 09, 2011 08:57 AM

Why take enlightenment when you can take great skills like logistics?  3 more travel points.  C'mon, you know you want them!
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I bring forth the raze

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted August 09, 2011 10:11 AM

Quote:
I don't have the H3 xp charts in head to compare but let's not forget it's a different game. If the skills trees will remain the same the xp chart for H6 must not be changed much (and I speak of normal levelling here). There are too many skills that can be abused if lv5 heroes are too easy to produce. It's a joke at fastest levelling to hit a learning stone and be lv5 and spam the map with architects and economists lv 2. Four heroes = 4 marketplaces + upgrade buildings - 20 %, just to mention that... Something must be done but not too much, heroes at lv 15 become monsters already ( a might hero with intimidation and only lv7 troops for example, oups). Some skills are just not worth compared to others but maybe they will have some use in specific maps who knows.

Don't confuse things: The fact that tier 2 skill become available at level 5 should not be used as an argument for ridiculous level requirements. Originally, you needed level 10 to have tier 2 abilities, but when people complained that leveling was way too slow, instead of fixing XP scale, UbiSoft shifted requirements down 5 levels. While that did fix the symptom - namely made tier 2 and 3 abilties more available - they avoided adressing the problem, namely that leveling is way too slow once you hit level 8. That's pretty much UbiSoft in a nutshell from my pov.

Anyway, as someone pointed out, of course the numbers themselves don't say anything unless you know how much XP you get from killing creatures. And let me just say, if beta is any kind of indicator, you DON'T get a lot more XP per killed creature than in previous games - if anything, it seems to be the contrary. So it's not just that all the numbers have been scaled up, the XP requirements have grown rediculously while the XP gain don't in any way follow up on this, not even at "fast" (x3) speed.


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Negativland
Negativland


Promising
Adventuring Hero
but I'm not
posted August 09, 2011 10:57 AM

Quote:
Neg, why don't you show us what a dark elf is supposed to look like


well, to me the perfect dark elves are nonexistent, since I don't like the whole concept, but something along these lines




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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 09, 2011 11:12 AM

A dark elf attacked by a facehugger? Me like!

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Known Hero
posted August 09, 2011 11:38 AM

I still prefer the Putriarch

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Supreme Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 09, 2011 11:41 AM

I do not think that lowering the reqiurements for skill levels is a good idea. Why? well it gives us less options to pick skills and spells that means that low level skill wil et only picked those that are really usefull. This image in my head is to streamlined.

Why not make an different aproche. Create som sort of semi-levels,or hlaf levels. I wich the heroe does not get an atribute boost but only skill points to take skills.
Or just doupble the max level, half the EX needed, and giv A-boosts only on every second level
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we
store, we teach. We are many,
and you can be one of us.

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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Adventuring Hero
BurnsSoil
posted August 09, 2011 05:32 PM

Quote:

Don't confuse things: The fact that tier 2 skill become available at level 5 should not be used as an argument for ridiculous level requirements. Originally, you needed level 10 to have tier 2 abilities, but when people complained that leveling was way too slow, instead of fixing XP scale, UbiSoft shifted requirements down 5 levels. While that did fix the symptom - namely made tier 2 and 3 abilties more available - they avoided adressing the problem, namely that leveling is way too slow once you hit level 8. That's pretty much UbiSoft in a nutshell from my pov.

Is that how they are "solving" the issue?
How do we know that? Last time I checked I still needed to be lvl 10 to access tier 2 skills.
Anyway, I completely agree that leveling is ridiculously slow right now. Ubihole first has to work on their XP requirements before adjusting skill levels (although both changes are needed in my opinion). It might also be true that heroes simply get too little experience from battles (esp. difficult ones!).

But isn't in the end the root of the problem the skill system itself? Why should every hero have access to every skill at a certain level regardless of other skills chosen? Doesn't that necessarily lead to the same "hero builds" every single time? There are practically no consequences or restrictions resulting from choosing a certain skill (e.g. "blocking" other skill trees). I think Ubihole went too far with their "build your own hero" approach: they wanted to eliminate the luck factor, but they ended up with a repetitive, mundane skill selection instead.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 09, 2011 05:38 PM

Quote:
How do we know that? Last time I checked I still needed to be lvl 10 to access tier 2 skills.

When was last time you played ? It's like this since the public beta has started

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