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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 14, 2011 01:51 PM |
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Edited by Gweret at 13:59, 14 Sep 2011.
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Quote: These are CORE issues which can't be changed anymore and which already cause many people not to order the game or to cancel their pre-order (which I did).
Most of the the things you have listed are not CORE ISSUES rather they are perceptions, "you like the change or not".
For ex. :
Small battlefields
H3 had 15 width ( distance between armies ), H6 have 12. BUT Functionally they are exactly the same. Some creatures can hit you in a first turn some can hit you in a second.
Shared growth.
(Almost) all heroes games have "shared growth" on resources. They are cumulative. You can spend them on whatever you want. Retarded?
Better is to make each town having separate resource pool with your hero or caravan-like thing to manually go to every mine you have, get the resource and move back.
Growth in given town never meant something like "creatures production".
What does it mean to have +25 goblins? Did they have sex with each other or what? In one week?
Growth only mean how many creatures are "recruited" by different means ( implicit means, not showed in game) in given time.
From where they come from? Probably the one can explain this by saying that there are some "implicit" interaction going on.
It is the same thing as resources showing from nowhere in your town.
Growth in H6 can be perceived like "ability" to hire creatures, not production of creatures in given town. In other words, in H6 you choose where given amount of creatures appeared in given time.
For ex. Lets say that we have a guy who lives in New York and want to join army. He can choose NY base or Los Angeles. He decide to move to LA, and join army base there. Shared growth.
US have some POTENTIAL ( GROWTH ) in hiring army, but WHERE to hire them is different thing. Soldiers are not produced in "bases".
Town portals
In previous game you could have town portal spell. In H3 you could travel between towns as long as you had mana and some small amount of movement points. In other words, more than once. In H6 you can jump in one turn to only ONE town, unless you have at least 30 movement point from artifacts.
They are however some game breaking bugs and balance problems, for ex. Retribution Aura can deal back around ~80% damage to all creatures, overpowered.
Another game breaking bug: resurrected stack become immortal. It makes the skill not usable.
And so on.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2011 02:31 PM |
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The battlefield is exactly the same size. The exact same. Two lines per player to place his army and 8 tiles to cross to reach the enemy's front line. That goes for the regular battlefields, while I have not seen them all, I know that the bridge battlefield is larger than that.
The general policy for Nival was to get the game smoother, faster with less micromanagement which was great in a way.. But some features did not turn out that well. Some are purely a matter of taste and there are people who do not care either way but some features would obviously generate lots of complaining which ubi should have known.
For the most part the issue is that H6 could have been the second coming() but instead it was jeopardized without VERY good reasons. The game will still come out in good shape, it will be supported and improved but it could have started as flawless.
The problem is not the bugs, town screens, interface or balance, everything can be fixed within a reasonable timeframe. It's the issues that run deeper that will be harder to deal with. I do have faith that those can and will be solved, especially since BH is committed to improving the game and communicates with us directly but alas that will not be right from the start. Again that would matter little for any other game but this is H6 and people have had 3-5 games' time to build up their considerably high expectations
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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BlazeHun
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 14, 2011 02:44 PM |
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Edited by BlazeHun at 14:50, 14 Sep 2011.
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1. Shared growth (retarded design)
I like this, caravan system was unnecessary and tedious. The strategy is where, when and how many units do you recruit. This remained the same.
2. Town conversion (needs some fixing)
Agree.
3. Copy-pasted skill trees (dull)
Agree.
4. Copy-pasted building trees (dull)
Copy-pasted building trees + unique building vs. not so different building trees like in previous heroes?
I like unique buildings.
5. Lack of adventure maps buildings (lack of variety, loss of all those "random" buildings)
Agree. HoMM 5 expansions have brought us some new adventure map buildings, we'll get some DLCs for sure
6. Poor resource system (lack of diversity in building costs, crystal doesn't really feel rare)
This one is a map designing issue. Demo map is a bad example.
7. Lack of randomness (CORE element of any HoMM game)
I like randomness in card games. In a heroes game it's rather annoying.
8. Bland battles (knowing who will get morale before acting, small battlefields, units having such big movement on the battlefield, most shooters having 100% range)
Knowing who will get good morale provides more strategic thinking. Some units can cross the map, others can't. It was like this in every previous game.
9. Healing spells (mostly the resurrection part of healings)
10. Town Portal (lack of tactical choices on the adventure map since you can just pop back to a city instantly)
HoMM 3 expert town portal was better?
11. Poor Siege battles
Agree.
12. No Mage guild
It was annoying too not to get a spell I needed for my strategy.
I don't see any game breaking, core issues. This still could be a great game.
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2011 05:51 PM |
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In regards to that Q&A, my question was the one about the Spring Spirits/Water Elementals and Glories/Light Elementals looking the same and kudos to Oakwarrior for keeping the part about laziness in.
I have to say, I'm more annoyed now after the answer than I was before. They didn't have the budget to change two lousy units? They are friggin' Ubisoft for crying out loud! They have more money than they know what to do with, but they couldn't afford a little more? Sorry, but I stand by my question and it's laziness.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2011 08:56 PM |
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Ubi has money alright.. But the devs can only work on the budget they are given. Ubi higher ups probably want to see how H6 goes before they invest more in it, I bet my right hand on it.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted September 14, 2011 09:32 PM |
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Quote:
8. Bland battles (knowing who will get morale before acting, small battlefields, units having such big movement on the battlefield, most shooters having 100% range)
If a unit stands behind a stone or some other objects (not all) (not sure if need to be adjacent) facing a shooter, said unit will gain def against ranged attack (around 30-40%, also not sure but it's around that)
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Wckey
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2011 09:54 PM |
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Quote: They didn't have the budget to change two lousy units?
I didn't saw the Q&A yet, but are you saying that the reason for them to have lazy Water and Light elementals was because of the budget? So why did they create wolves instead of changing the model of at least one of the two creatures?
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Come back soon, Elvin!
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SoilBurn
Known Hero
BurnsSoil
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posted September 14, 2011 10:31 PM |
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Q&A without town screens? Treason and shame!!
On other topics:
Out of the points named by Nelgirith, I agree with everything EXCEPT:
7. Lack of randomness (CORE element of any HoMM game)
Nope. Randomness was for me a weakness of the HOMM franchise and I am absolutely delighted it is gone for good.
8. Bland battles (knowing who will get morale before acting, small battlefields, units having such big movement on the battlefield, most shooters having 100% range)
Now you are overreacting. Battles are probably the best part of this game - which is of course still not enough to make a good HOMM title
9. Healing spells (mostly the resurrection part of healings)
Heck not. On the contrary: This is another one of the few strong points of the game. The old "healing" of a single unit to its full health was a useless ability 95% of the time. Certain factions should have the ability to resurrect fallen units, as it is both flavorful and it widens tactical possibilities. It simply needs to be balanced and the other factions should get higher damaging abilities instead
10. Town Portal (lack of tactical choices on the adventure map since you can just pop back to a city instantly)
Overreacting again. You only pop back to the nearest one and it still consumes almosta a full turn
12. No Mage guild
Mage Guilds were too random. Good riddance I say. I would prefer a unique building that allows you to buy spells from a wider range instead
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Gothmog_Ultra
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 14, 2011 10:44 PM |
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Well, as I said it'sa just my opinion, and yeah town screenies are just estetic, but I think that the estetic in a videogame it's a big part. Obviously you have to take care of all the stuffs, gameplay, bugs, graphic, estetic, power balance of factions etc. etc. etc..... but I think 80% of players can't stand up with this "little anonymous video thingy". Don't understimate how a thing that seems little can change the overview and the total fun you gain from a game. Eye needs his part. Anyways I just said that personally I enjoed a lot with the town screenies, loved them all in every game (not that much in the 4th but oh well, they were looking like good anyways xD).
But yeah, the thing the you can change the faction of the castle you conquer should be deleted.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 14, 2011 11:03 PM |
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It's not just the town windows.
The entire HUD system is a minor travesty.
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Gothmog_Ultra
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 14, 2011 11:21 PM |
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Well, I am just focusing about the point I care the most
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted September 15, 2011 05:54 AM |
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Quote:
Quote: They didn't have the budget to change two lousy units?
I didn't saw the Q&A yet, but are you saying that the reason for them to have lazy Water and Light elementals was because of the budget? So why did they create wolves instead of changing the model of at least one of the two creatures?
Yup, that's what Erwan said. He then went on to say that they also left those two units as is so they would have money in the budget to add more neutrals.
I don't know about anyone else, but to me the wolves are the lamest neutrals ever and I would have rather had two different looking models than them adding the wolves.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted September 15, 2011 07:41 AM |
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I don't mind the wolves, although they're a little bit stupid-mundane in a way that looks like Ubi saying "Hey, remember back in Heroes I where there were wolves?"
It still doesn't excuse the lack of a unique water/light elemental. Or, failing that, a unique Haven/Sanctuary creature.
Because I actually like the Light/Water Elemental as they are now. But then the Glories and Spring Spirits should be different.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 15, 2011 07:45 AM |
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Wolfies have been in every single heroes game silly Minus H3 if you do not count the wolf riders.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 15, 2011 07:55 AM |
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Yeah, wolves are cool, but am wondering where the mermaids are? Can't seen them in the demo maps....
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 15, 2011 08:36 AM |
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Quote: Yeah, wolves are cool, but am wondering where the mermaids are? Can't seen them in the demo maps....
Well there are aquatic creatures so they will most likly be at sea. So point 1 there are no Sireins on BA.
Point 2 if there are any, thy PC kills them before you get to the sea.
I do not care if there are copie-pased unites. The more unites the better.
O like Neutrals, I need them in the game and I want them to be recruitable and add some diversity. Like an neutral demon that can gate or orc that has Blood rage.
There are many such copied animations. For example teh Glory and Sister have exatly the same lucky strike animation. Thats cheap in my eyes. But do I care?
But on the other hand. Where is for example the special attack animation of the J. wariorr that we saw in the Stronghold animation video (0:31-0:34)
For Example My real problem is that there is no way to commonly recruit neutrals. And I would like to see a game that can even come close to the way that H2 used the potential of the neutrals. Why? Since H2 I haven't seen anybody use neutrals eficiently (Exept Dragons in H3) due to teh fact that they were rare tu find and here gowth was to low.
That bring me to an idea. Who came up whit the idea of shared creature dwelings? One, it lowers the number of buildings. Two, it gives too much of an advantage (One batle and get +15 core per week? WTH) I would like to play a normal map to see how it worksm cause BA produces swarms of core creatures. Too many castles, too may laiers. but if there are non on the map, whats is? If we have lower nummber of mines, and te crystal is supposed to be "Really rare".
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 15, 2011 09:20 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 09:31, 15 Sep 2011.
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1. Town screens.
They need to be full screens, and with better graphics.
2. Magic system.
I hate that, you have to spend whole skill point just for a spell... Bring back magic guilds! It's much better if there are magic guilds and in the skill trees are just some updating spell abillities. Example:
a. Magic guild give you fire ball
b. a skill give fire ball effect that set to fire the land around.
Magic heroes are going to use just few spells, because they need to level up for every and also have some other abilities, like logistics and etc.
3. Is it just me or the games are slower? You need much more time to look around and etc... I want a bit faster game.
4. Area forst - annoying!
When we have only 3 resource types - we need more resources from the same type for the buildings - this mean we need more mines from the same type to get resources faster - this mean we need to get more forts.
This mean it's very annotying when the IA always:
1. just go there get the fort
2. always ******* convert it!
All this is very, very, very annoying. The player need to fight the enemy for it's towns and keep ALL the other forst in order to get his base town full builded (you need all the mines for your base town).
This is petty annoying. Converting as well.
To fix this there are 2 ways:
1. We remove the area thing;
2. Or we bring back all resources - this way a player need smaller amount of type - need to control less mines - need to control less forts or just one more. And it's all going to be GREAT!
5. Shared populating + converting.
When you have hard times, losing forts and towns mean much lower populating, means bigger populating for your enemy, after he/she convert the town, mean with every lost area, you have much smaller chanse to survive. This in not blanced, the loser one is going to have smaller populating and the winning - bigger! He doesn't have any last chance.
6. Spell cooldown.
Again, like in heroes 5 and 3 spells are not powerful enough. You spend a level for them and on the pattle field you have to wait few turns after you used them just once! Am I not leveling this hero to be a caster? I do, then why I can cast but just attack killing 1 skeleton, 3 wc looking frogs, or etc...
Might heroes are move effective. Why?
1. They level more might abilities, and this help their army. Magic heroes level up for spells and spell power and they can't use them because or cooldown.
2. Might heroes get more might attributes (defence, attack, atc.) and this help their army. Magic heroes get more mana, spellpower, etc, but they can't use them activ because of the cooldown. Might hero is going to use his stats all the time during battle.
3. When might hero get arti, it bring more might stats - same as 2.
It all mean magic is again weaker. Bring back magic guilds and remove the cooldown. Or at least the magic guild are ok.
7. Spell cooldown, but no cooldown for healing?
All the new healing creatures. Damn. There is something broken about the ghosts. This healing ability must be given to very, very, very weak creature or to very powerful creater. Why to powerful one? Because this way the player is going to choose between using this creature to attack ot using it to heal - spaming heal is now better.
Ghosts are trully broken. Just give this spell to the liches or make it cooldown for turn or 2 arter every use.
8. Alike skills.
Were they just lazy? If they are going to copy WoW with the skill trees, why they don't copy the unique race trees?
If you ask me they have to work on this game more, much more!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 15, 2011 09:34 AM |
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Give it a couple years, it seemed to work (to an extent) for H5.
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 15, 2011 09:47 AM |
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It just occur to me. Talking about resource vs area of control.
They reduced the resource type to facilitate competition in the other hand, the area of control actually make it much more simple a way too much IMHO.
Still how I saw it from my point of view but I think the choice is:
- Remove the Area of Control completely and stay with 4 resource
or
- Bring back the 7 type resource and tweak the Area of Control since now it is easier to manage multiple type of resource with Area of Control in play
Just my opinion and 2 cents though
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2011 10:37 AM |
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Area of control is indeed flawed. What annoys me the most is not the number of resources, nor the fact that you need to take fort over to get mines yours permanently, but the fact, that after taking fort, all mines and dwellings converts to you, magically... As far as I can understand the logic behind that, it is simply dull and not fair. Seeing as first player to take over neutral fort got hard time to get past guards, just to lose everything 2 days later, cause some scout or one-of-many-AI-heroes just roamed nearby. Solution? There's few, I bet, my idea would be to turn all mines and dwellings to neutral, once the fort is taken over. Another player cannot, of course, take over mines or dwellings without taking fort first, but a player who just conquered the fort should at least put the effort to run and flag mines/dwellings for himself.
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