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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 26, 2011 12:21 PM |
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YAYAYAYAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA PAGE 500!! WOOOT!! Congratulations!! Yeah hyped for H6! High Six!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 12:59 PM |
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That's what I truly dislike in Inferno castle now, even though I'm falling in love with the faction for the very first time They got no artifacts merchant, means no shackles, means annoying-as-hell playing vs AI...
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 01:03 PM |
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Quote: Maybe it's a bug then? Because I noted that they weren't actually losing any troops. At least not a big percentage such as the 25%. If there were any casualties due to the retreat, they were unnoticeable.
I spent a long time to a stupid cat-and-mouse game. Chasing after the enemy all over the map, just to have them flee when I was eventually catching up.
Not one single battle! I won the game eventually with the only battle against a hero locked up in their last town. All the battles that were started in the map, ended in the enemy's first turn, where they would flee.
And to think I don't even use main heroes. I was splitting the army equally among my higher level heroes and I wasn't even converting the towns and forts, to have more variety under my command.
It was more exciting fighting against neutral monsters than enemy heroes!
I confirm. AI heroes lose no troops and just keep fleeing over and over. No matter whether they have an army twice smaller or twice bigger than yours. There's simply no way to fight the AI anywhere else than in their final castle (unless you have the Shackles or the level 3 Sword of the Wolf).
The solo game is a mere hide & seek game that is awfully boring unless you have some artifacts that boost your movement, else the AI heroes will always outrun you and if you manage somehow to catch one, he will flee without even casting a single spell. Once you've caused all the AI heroes to flee, you can just keep them cornered while you march with your main army towards the AI cities in bulldozer-mode. How fun ...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 26, 2011 01:13 PM |
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Does that also happen in 1.4?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 26, 2011 01:15 PM |
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*thinks about going back and deleting a post to ruin Azzie's 500 first*
...
Nah.
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 01:18 PM |
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Quote: I confirm. AI heroes lose no troops and just keep fleeing over and over. No matter whether they have an army twice smaller or twice bigger than yours. There's simply no way to fight the AI anywhere else than in their final castle (unless you have the Shackles or the level 3 Sword of the Wolf).
The solo game is a mere hide & seek game that is awfully boring unless you have some artifacts that boost your movement, else the AI heroes will always outrun you and if you manage somehow to catch one, he will flee without even casting a single spell. Once you've caused all the AI heroes to flee, you can just keep them cornered while you march with your main army towards the AI cities in bulldozer-mode. How fun ...
That is not what is happening to me. Playing Demo 1.3, with the closed beta content opened with the files Infinitius linked. If AI got enough troops to put up a fight, it is not fleeing. Sometimes it even tries with a bit smaller army. Annoying part is constant AI's heroes spam, forces you to keep all your castles protected etc. And AI is epically abusing Town Portal, I'm pretty sure it can use it more than once per turn...
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 01:37 PM |
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Quote: That is not what is happening to me. Playing Demo 1.3, with the closed beta content opened with the files Infinitius linked. If AI got enough troops to put up a fight, it is not fleeing. Sometimes it even tries with a bit smaller army. Annoying part is constant AI's heroes spam, forces you to keep all your castles protected etc. And AI is epically abusing Town Portal, I'm pretty sure it can use it more than once per turn...
So, it works in the 1.3 demo and is bugged in the 1.4 beta. I win Black Hole's current build is based on 1.4, not on 1.3. Just because Infinitus unlocked content (aka maps) doesn't mean you have the same build at all
Quote: Does that also happen in 1.4?
Last time I played, the AI army size didn't change at all during a same week (fighting an AI hero on day 2 and meeting him again on day 7).
What's weird is that this fleeting thing rarely happens in campaign mode (think I've seen Martina flee once in Slava's campaign and it somehow bugged the game because I was missing 1 of the 3 heroes to kill and the AI never recruited her back).
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 26, 2011 01:39 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 13:45, 26 Sep 2011.
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About some might skills in H6:
I'll like to say this: if you play might hero with necropolis town, you may have some problems, all abilities that affect the morale can't be used (it's not called morale anymore, or... is it?). Not only abilities that affect morale only. Like the heroism warcry, it affect morale, luck and damage, you can not use it on necro creatures. Why? Why can't you use it on your creatures for the luck and damage bonus. This need to be fixed .
About hero vs. hero:
When hero with army of 0 creatures, meed another hero with 0 creatures, noone win. Why isn't the hero with bigger level the winner? Also if they meed, while one of them is in town, the town bugs and noone can take over it Or something like that.
Idea for Leadership:
I think its a good idea if the leadership skill in the might tree, when playing necro decrease enemies morale/leadership.
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 02:07 PM |
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Quote: So, it works in the 1.3 demo and is bugged in the 1.4 beta. I win Black Hole's current build is based on 1.4, not on 1.3. Just because Infinitus unlocked content (aka maps) doesn't mean you have the same build at all
Only it is not just maps It gives Duel mode, Sanctuary and Stronghold campaigns etc. I have no idea if that can be patched like normal beta can, as I am playing offline mode.
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 02:07 PM |
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Quote: What's weird is that this fleeting thing rarely happens in campaign mode (think I've seen Martina flee once and it somehow bugged the game because I was missing 1 of the 3 heroes to kills and the AI never recruited her back).
I had the similar thing in demo. But when she fled, she was counted as dead in my quest list.
@VokialBG
Quote: Why? Why can't you use it on your creatures for the luck and damage bonus. This need to be fixed
It is game design decision, like in previous games. Undead does not have morale. You can't boost them or make them drop. The same thing goes for black dragon. If you have army all made up with black dragons all your buffing spells does not work.
It is double edge sword.
But then you can always have mixed army at some point.
Probably this is a little problem with open skill system. You can pick some skills which are going to be less effective in most cases. But you don't have to pick them and even if you pick you can use them on non-undead creatures.
You know being an undead must have good and bad sides.
If they were to swap +morale abilities to +luck abilities, would "bad side" of being an undead hurt?
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 02:35 PM |
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What Vokial means is, I believe, that if a skill gives morale+some other bonuses, it should be usable on undeads too, but only with +other bonuses, ignoring morale part. Because of the flawed skill system, Necro players got basically less skills to choose from, since those with +morale cannot even be used on his troops. I think that is a valid point to reconsider.
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 03:42 PM |
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Edited by Gweret at 16:41, 26 Sep 2011.
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Quote: What Vokial means is, I believe, that if a skill gives morale+some other bonuses, it should be usable on undeads too, but only with +other bonuses, ignoring morale part.
I understood what he meant.
We are talking only about these might skills.
Heroism gives you +n to LUCK AND MORALE AND DAMAGE.
Cleave gives Free action after stack is destroyed +n to initiative and morale.
Leadership gives you only boost to morale.
You can still use first and the second skill I listed. But because you are undead, you have advantages and disadvantages.
In other words being an undead is exchanged for this +morale boost. It works like this to balance player "undeadness".
I don't see how might necro player have less skills to choose from with exception of +leadership skill. But then your army is "Undead" and this is FREE buff from the start.
EDIT:
My bad, I should learn to read more carefully, sorry.
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Grishnak
Hired Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 03:53 PM |
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As far as I understood what Vokial said, is that you CAN'T user Heroism on undead creatures, because of the morale boost it gives. Hence it renders you -2 skills to choose from. I have not tested it myself, so I'm only assuming that is how it does (not) work.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 26, 2011 05:37 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 17:40, 26 Sep 2011.
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Quote: As far as I understood what Vokial said, is that you CAN'T user Heroism on undead creatures, because of the morale boost it gives. Hence it renders you -2 skills to choose from. I have not tested it myself, so I'm only assuming that is how it does (not) work.
Yes. It can not be casted on undeads at all but it do gives also luck and damage as well. So it has to give them (undeads) luck and damage bonus, and no morale bonus. That's my point here
So um...:
1. Heroism on living creature: dmg, morale and luck bonus
2. Heroism on undead creature: can not be casted
3. My idea here - heroism on undead crature: dmg and luck bonus, no morale bonus.
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 06:08 PM |
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@VokialBG
Unfortunately this is design flow. Someone forgot about undead when making this skill.
I wonder if Cleave skill works on undead.
To fix this, problem, as you said, the skill should be completely changed or work in the way you described.
But skill tooltip should have two names:
One: "Heroism"
Second: "Fresh meet ahead" or something it this flavor.
Why? Because you can't make undead more "heroic".
Does anyone know/(can tell) something about this Day 1 patch?
It looks like they have something important to include but they did not make on time of release.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 26, 2011 07:27 PM |
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Who knows, I do not think it will be a major one. It will probably be hard to squeeze in major changes so small fixes would sound more reasonable.
The end of the beta is in sight, second phase ends 28 September, just two weeks away from the release I think it went well all things concerned, I am grateful for the delays and this long beta testing.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted September 26, 2011 08:33 PM |
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Quote: Who knows, I do not think it will be a major one. It will probably be hard to squeeze in major changes so small fixes would sound more reasonable.
The end of the beta is in sight, second phase ends 28 September, just two weeks away from the release I think it went well all things concerned, I am grateful for the delays and this long beta testing.
I'm grateful for that too, I mean imagine how the game would be like if it was going to be released in March 2011 like originally planned? Heh... Don't even wanna know!
But I still feel that it has long ways to go before it will feel complete. The bugs were there by the dozens, even if they fix them all, it's still not enough. There's still gameplay and other issues that need to be addressed even though they're not faulty, just not popular (Town Screens, duplicate creatures, fleeing/recruiting, the whole magic system etc. etc.)...
Even if they intended to change any of those, there's not enough time before release and the game will be frowned upon by many, eventually. Personally, I'm up for even more delays if that gives REAL towns.
But I guess they don't intend to change them...
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Gweret
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 26, 2011 09:46 PM |
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@kodial79
Quote: Even if they intended to change any of those, there's not enough time before release and the game will be frowned upon by many, eventually. Personally, I'm up for even more delays if that gives REAL towns.
They said they will give us. Probably they are going to show us new town screens before release.
They also said that they have some plans for Heroes 6 support. But then, again, if game wont have good sells, probably support for H6 will be limited.
In my opinion they did the best thing they could with skill system to balance might and magic heroes. I can't think about better solution to this ALL Heroes games problem.
Alternative for balancing the might heroes, instead of giving them limited access to spell, would be giving them more spell-like abilities. It would make them lore-wise more distinctive but effectively it would be different side of the same coin.
Problem of archetype heroes - magic vs might(melee) - was/is also included in many other fantasy RPG games. For ex. in D&D. As far as I know only 4th edition of D&D did something with this unbalance. And their solution was to add "spell-like" abilities for melee classes and limit mage power to role of moderate "ranged-dmg" and crow-controller.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 26, 2011 10:57 PM |
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Spell-like abilities? War cries and such?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted September 27, 2011 08:50 AM |
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Quote: They also said that they have some plans for Heroes 6 support. But then, again, if game wont have good sells, probably support for H6 will be limited.
I don't think that this is they their logic works. Heroes V sold very well but its support was... well, you probably know yourself. We can just hope that they will hold their promises...
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