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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 70 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 23, 2010 03:05 AM

>>*The Map editor
- With Marzhin’s involvement the goal is to make it user-friendly and shipped before the game, or at least simultaneously with it.<<


Please some help...

I am a Old Noob that's posted in a couple of places about wanting to (if possible) see what is in the works about the ME and offer ideas if necessary. Is Marhzin representing the HC? If not, who is?

Thanks in advance

I enjoy playing the game, but <imo> "map-making is the real treasure"


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"Do your own research"

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 23, 2010 07:46 AM

Quote:
Quote:
I rather like the idea. H3 was cool since any hero could learn any magic school(with preferences ofc), there were lots of spells, good gameplay variation. However the elements are not all-encompassing and that's why H6 will be better. H5 system was fun but very limiting and also gave less variety for each individual school save maybe summoning.

Agreed!!

i just loved to know the elemental schools will be back, and adding the light and darkness elements!
ok, the primordial element made it sound i bit like age of wonders, who has the 6 elemental schools + the 'cosmo' school...
but it don't matter!
the h5 system was good, but there where to few spells...

I think I've said my thoughts on this before, but I'll happily repeat it: The number of spells has nothing to do with the overall spell system, and the whole point of the Heroes 5 system would be to make it limiting.

The great flaw of the Heroes 3 system was that with one single spell school, you'd be pretty much omni-potent in all magic areas: You'd have access to mass buffs, mass de-buffs, damaging spells AND adventure spells. Of course you might wanna take two schools for versatility, but on the bottom line, you only needed one to have a wide range of options.

But I fear that the worst thing about this will be that it will be like the Heroes 4 magic system: Each faction has its own magic school. Haven will have Light, Necropolis will have Dark, Inferno will have Chaos, etc. This will make the game much more predictable (even more than H5, where each faction at least had two associated schools) and also offer much less versatility in game play.

And if there are indeed 7 different number of schools, I doubt there will be THAT many spells in each school, unless some are doubles (again, like in Heroes 4 ) and then, what's the point?
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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 23, 2010 08:37 AM

I never liked that a light-magic hero could never deal damage with his spells, and that a destruction-magic hero could never buff his units.  As was already stated, breaking things down based on their element makes more sense to me because it allows a wizard to be themed on a kind of magic that still allows him to be useful in a variety of situations.  There will of course still be the heroes who want to specialize in four kinds of magic, but it bothered me in H5 that you had to specialize in four kinds of magic in order to be a well-rounded spellcaster.  It left very little room for anything else.

I also tend to imagine magic in terms of elemental manipulation.  i.e. "You have an affinity for fire; therefore you can command the element of fire in a variety of ways, even twisting it to suit unusual purposes, such as instilling your armies with greater fury."

I should point out, of course, that I usually see wizards as being "talented" or somewhat "different" from ordinary folk; that you don't just read a book and suddenly you can cast Armageddon, but after a certain point you just need to be inclined towards a particular kind of magic.  I never imagined that a wizard might be specifically tuned to the energies of destructive magic; to me, it seemed too abstract a concept.

I'm interested to see what having seven schools of magic does to the game; certainly it should make spellcasting characters more interesting!  What I would like to see, though, is more synergy between schools - i.e. If I have a mastery of Fire Magic and Earth Magic, will it make my Eldritch Arrow spell more powerful than if I just had mastery of Fire Magic?

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 23, 2010 09:15 AM

Quote:
>>*The Map editor
- With Marzhin’s involvement the goal is to make it user-friendly and shipped before the game, or at least simultaneously with it.<<


Please some help...

I am a Old Noob that's posted in a couple of places about wanting to (if possible) see what is in the works about the ME and offer ideas if necessary. Is Marhzin representing the HC? If not, who is?

Thanks in advance

I enjoy playing the game, but <imo> "map-making is the real treasure"



Marzhin belongs to the Celestial Heavens crew and he's the creator of the Legend of the Ancients campaign for H5

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 23, 2010 09:27 AM

Number of spells means everything. Take ligh magic, 2 spells one of which is broken and the other simply good. Miss haste and it sucks incomprehensively. Or dark, when they introduced sorrow their lvl 1 spell became chaotic and if they also got confusion in lvl 3 they had zero mass options vs certain factions. Now if you got 2 spells out of 3 total or 3 out of 5 it would be a lot more balanced even if there were imbalances between the spells of the same school/level. But 50-50 to get the 'good' spell is horrible.

In H3 you could not have EVERYTHING with just one school, all schools had their focus even if they had more variety. Problem was that earth and air were simply too good to skip yet H5 did the same mistake. It made it so certain factions absolutely sucked in some schools and if not early they certainly would suck if the game took longer.

H3 also allowed more skills which meant that almost everyone would or at least easily could get 2 magic schools. That not only means more creative games but also less chances for getting stuck with weak/situational spells. Suppose you get sorrow and confusion with necro vs orcs or dungeon with circle of winter, chain lightning and armageddon vs orcs agaib. You are screwed, takes a LOT out of your potential. Or if you get summoning with fist, earthquake and summon elementals.. In H3 however every school was useful and not limited by opponent/weeks/spell availability, not to H5 extent anyway.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Miles_teg
Miles_teg


Hired Hero
posted September 23, 2010 09:45 AM
Edited by Miles_teg at 09:46, 23 Sep 2010.

Quote:
What I would like to see, though, is more synergy between schools - i.e. If I have a mastery of Fire Magic and Earth Magic, will it make my Eldritch Arrow spell more powerful than if I just had mastery of Fire Magic?

I like that final idea... but i think it would be more interesting if the hero could unlock certain spells given some conditions, for example:

conditions:
a) hero with advanced fire magic
b) hero with advanced earth magic
c) hero has "slow" and "firewall" on his spellbook

result: Hero gains "magma ground" (or some much better name ) spell, wich transforms a 3x3 area of the terrain into burning lava damaging any creature who steps on it with x-x damage and causing burning and slow effect for x turns.

Something like this would give spellcasting heroes some goals to achieve like "man, i really need to get that "whirlwind" spell so i can finally use my "typhoon" spell, hope that castle i'm about to conquer has it!"

kind of reminded me to when i used to play chrono trigger and there were some skills that requiered more than one character to cast, i specially remember "antipode" wich was a powerful tecnique performed by Lucca (fire caster) and marie (Ice caster)

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Mmh6James
Mmh6James


Adventuring Hero
posted September 23, 2010 11:28 PM
Edited by Mmh6James at 23:36, 23 Sep 2010.

Why not an ability for every hero, to learn two school (fire,water,air,earth,light,darkness) and when he is big level enough, learning an ability to combine spells? It'll be really awesome.

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markkur
markkur


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted September 24, 2010 12:00 AM

Map Editor Wishes

>>>Marzhin belongs to the Celestial Heavens crew and he's the creator of the Legend of the Ancients campaign for H5<<<

Thanks Nelgirith,. I thought that may have been a reach.

You are the first, after several tries, to reply to my Qs about the Map Editor. What gives? About everything I see posted is about the gameplay or factions etc. Do you know if anyone is the front/person concerning wish/feedback pertaining to the upcoming M.E.? I did a lot of map-making in HoMMIII and as old as it is, many features still rock compared to the latest one.

Thanks again.

And if anyone else can help...please jump in! <imo> The Map Editor is a critical element in the world of HoMM VI, it's not just nice to have.


____________
"Do your own research"

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 24, 2010 08:01 AM

Moving this post by Gibblets from Announcement thread to here:

Quote:
I've got to comment on the alternate upgrades that made an appearance in TotE and is not being included in at least the original version of H6. It's going to be long so bear with me.

I want to state for the record that I enjoyed alternate upgrades immensely even though there were a lot which were just a new paint job and a shuffling of attack and defense points with no real gameplay effect. I think it's smart to wait until an expansion to introduce alternate upgrades that way the game will have been put through it's paces by all of us and after being rigorously play tested it will be easy to see what upgrades would benefit each team the best. The case in point of introducing alt upgrades later on would be the Archmage/Battlemage choice. Lots of people couldn't chess it up enough to use archmages without inflicting friendly fire so Nival gave us the user friendly battlemage but with reduced casting ability making a kiddy gloves version.
Or take for example the addition of stealth to the Dungeon line up or inter-unit synergies like Gremlins repair golems ability or the sprites symbiosis(which heals them and Treants)but does away with the useless mid to late game wasp swarm casting ability. Or for example skeletons, more specifically skeleton archers and how relatively useless 1k of them are in the lategame until you turn them into warriors, with soldiers luck they're more than comparable to Havens squires. All of the alt upgrades extended the useful "life" of these creatures.

However I want to remind people of some of the really exceptional alt upgrades.
The first that comes to mind is the gargoyle, obsidian is a true tank with immunities to lots of spells and the elemental is a destructive magic amplifier which fulfills its role of a shooter blocker while also increasing elemental spell damage by 50% to all creatures around it. I think it's obvious how much of a shift in combat dynamics this is.

Or take for example the leaping ability of the grunt, it's a strength that plays to it's weaknesses (low initiative and low movement speed). Most likely an enemy creatures retaliation strike would have been used up on a summoned stack so whenever a grunts turn actually did come around it wouldn't have to waste a turn maneuvering into range before attacking.

Succubus seducers, enough said.

Or the difference between an ancient and savage treant one was decidedly defensive while the other offensive and would suit either style of army well

Or how about the difference between magma and lava dragons. Magmas' have a fire shield variant and the Lava dragons spew out mini firewalls very different tactical applications, ones a berserker and the other a mine layer

And for my last example the dwarven harpooner,(because I could go on for hours about this if you haven't reached this conclusion already) I know the harpooner sounds lame BUT if you're using summoning magic and spells like fire trap, blade wall, arcane crystal, or are behind a castles walls, or using lava dragons mini firewalls moving creatures one square closer can be a great way to get 2 for 1.

Anyways I hope they bring alternative upgrades back, but only once they've seen what needs enhancing or balancing and as a way to specialize your army for certain tasks be it a play style or just faction counters.

____________
What will happen now?

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 24, 2010 11:59 AM

Commenting on the Q&A posted by Nelgirith in the other thread.

[Sveltana] travelled through the Jade Sea islands with her master in order to free Mother Namtaru, a powerfull avatar of the Spider Goddess. Aguirre was killed during the expedition and Sveltana, alone, brought the creature back to the Silver Cities. She became a legend among all the Necromancers.

Would that be the name of the spider creature? One of the insiders in another thread said its name is mythological but not common, well it's also Mesopotamian like the Lamassu so it would totally fit.

And now the latest stuff from Facebook:

Necropolis

“Life is change, chaos, filth and suffering.
Death is peace, order, everlasting beauty.”

Necropolis is at the beginning of their rise to power, and power they have. They are currently fighting for emancipation and acceptance from their brethren the Wizards of the Seven Cities. They do not seek to convert all the nations of Ashan to their morbid belief, nor to kill them all and raise them as undead, but rather to have a dominant place in the world as protectors of the equilibrium between the worlds of life and death.
They see the upcoming Demon Invasions as an opportunity to sanctify their religious order and justify its existence to the other factions of Ashan.






The Lich.

Higher ranking Necromancers (the priests of the Spider Goddess) are given a life-prolonging elixir that is “milked from the venom of the Goddess’s sacred spiders, and that they must mix their food.
This “treatment” turns them into Asakkus, or “Liches”, their bodies desiccated but now freed from the passions of the flesh. They keep aging however, until they look little more than walking mummies... The venom mixture also colors their whole eyes bright green.




The Vampire.

As they grow in power, Liches may earn the right to be embraced by the Spider Goddess herself to die and be reborn as Akhkharus, or “Vampires”. They undergo an excruciating ritual but gain a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects. Vampires don’t need to eat, drink, sleep or breathe anymore as all their organs are “petrified” and it is not blood, but the sacred spider’s venom, that now flows in their veins.
However, they need to drink human blood on a regular basis to thin this venom down, and prevent it from dissolving their body from the inside.


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lucky_dwarf
lucky_dwarf


Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
posted September 24, 2010 03:40 PM

I like how the vampire looks now as opposed to what they used to look like. Much more stylish, and well done. They could be held as the knights of Asha, and not as silly vampire counts.
____________
So much has changed in my absence.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted September 24, 2010 04:38 PM

Still the utterly !@#$%^& stupid Lich --> Vampire thing!

Sigh.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 24, 2010 05:11 PM

Quote:
Still the utterly !@#$%^& stupid Lich --> Vampire thing!

Sigh.

Agreed, it seems both illogical and unnecessary, as Liches and Vampires are now equal level and thus equal strength.
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What will happen now?

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 24, 2010 05:12 PM

At least now liches aren't stronger than vampires, they're both elites.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted September 24, 2010 06:58 PM
Edited by Cepheus at 18:59, 24 Sep 2010.

Quote:
You are the first, after several tries, to reply to my Qs about the Map Editor. What gives? About everything I see posted is about the gameplay or factions etc. Do you know if anyone is the front/person concerning wish/feedback pertaining to the upcoming M.E.?


You can certainly throw feedback on the editor at me (and probably Elvin), and we'll post it unabridged in the closed forum.

If you have simple concerns like "more documentation please!" or "less bugs and crashes please!", however, no need to bother - the devs are already very aware of H5's shortcomings; they openly admit it was bad and understand that these issues need addressing.

At this point, I think it may be best to offer suggestions and advice on possible new features for the map editor (or old features that weren't included in H5's one).
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Miles_Teg
Miles_Teg


Hired Hero
posted September 24, 2010 07:13 PM

Quote:
[Still the utterly !@#$%^& stupid Lich --> Vampire thing!


seems pretty logic to me

lich: yeah! I finally managed to become a Powerful Spellcasting Lich, time to get a sword and start swinging it around!

XD
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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 24, 2010 10:02 PM

cant you take a screenshot of the forum and then censor it A LOT? xD

also is it just mean or does the vampire look almost exactly like Arthas?
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Valen-Teen
Valen-Teen


Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
posted September 24, 2010 10:10 PM

Hmm.. I think that Lich is Core unit and White ladies would the Elite!

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Maken
Maken


Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
posted September 24, 2010 11:44 PM

Quote:
Hmm.. I think that Lich is Core unit and White ladies would the Elite!


I had the same thinking, but discarded after remembering that the liches are powerful spellcasters, so being core would certainly reduce its awesomeness. On the other hand there is this lore element about vampires being liches that were through some ritual and becoming stronger. As stated a few posts above, it's really a silly explanation, should be discarded imo too.

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 25, 2010 12:51 AM

I don't know; however they want to explain it is fine with me, as long as it makes sense in the world they've created.

I am curious, though, about how this will impact the lich's place in the necromancer line-up.  I could see ghosts rising to Elite status if liches are now Core - but that greatly diminishes the lich's power, and if liches are still ranged creatures, I have some doubts about how they'll balance against the other creatures.

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