Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Are there imbalances in HOMM 3 ?
Thread: Are there imbalances in HOMM 3 ? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 08, 2018 11:00 PM
Edited by phe at 23:06, 08 Jul 2018.

should be 5000...and maybe +1000 for every 10 levels...prisons going up...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 09, 2018 12:53 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 01:00, 09 Jul 2018.

Ok, my bad. Maybe you play better then me or still believe those boring first days will make a difference in the end, for me the major mistake in Heroes III conception.

phe said:
maybe +1000 for every 10 levels...

This I totally agree with you but would go for 1000 for every level. Hiring a totally overpowered hero for the price of a level one is a bug. This would also make Poorman's TP a bit harder.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 09, 2018 10:39 AM

phe said:
should be 5000...and maybe +1000 for every 10 levels...prisons going up...


This is just speculating, because the game then would need total revamp. For instance, you assume that high level hero = good hero, which is not guaranteed at all, if the distribution of skills is AI made. A earth master low level will perform most battles much better than a hero 50 levels above but not mastering magic at all. A logistic master level 4 will travel faster than a level 99 but without the skill. Then what you do if for some reason, both heroes offered in tavern are high level and is early game? That would cripple you and not necessarily for a good result.

Also the 5000g/hero will not work because the way maps and templates are internally coded implies that an early hero will cover its recruitment expense + generate extra income early, that's why you recruit more heroes and send them fight/explore instead of going the capitol tactic, which freezes the game development.  

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 09, 2018 12:12 PM
Edited by phe at 14:14, 09 Jul 2018.

good points...
game changes constantly with every new feature...of course needs sometimes revamping...most of current maps especially RMG wouldn't need change to work satisfactory after change of hero's cost...
it's general rule about hero's recruitment cost...difference in primary skills, learned secondary skills and bonus of speciality usually prevails...of course sometimes we can win against much higher level hero or stronger neutral stack when they are led stupid AI attacking single weak creatures or stacks manouvering not like you would...
if high level hero doesn't have Logistics he usually have some travel adventure spells TP, DD, Fly, Water Walk, Summon Boat. Usually has some artifacts by recruitment...can find or buy boots and gloves...if he is Artillery master(WoG) or has Armageddon he can enter in battles than other heroes can't win...what if such strong stacks occupy passages and other important places and you don't have nothing more to pick up and gathering proper army would take a while...of course everybody likes to have Logistics...however hero with Logistics and those skills: navigation, scholar, scouting, EE, learning, ballistics, pathfinding, first aid would not be so strong in battle unless visited many places and had many battles...  
and good that we aren't completely doomed if we play against higher level hero...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted July 09, 2018 03:50 PM

Salamandre said:

Also the 5000g/hero will not work because the way maps and templates are internally coded implies that an early hero will cover its recruitment expense + generate extra income early, that's why you recruit more heroes and send them fight/explore instead of going the capitol tactic, which freezes the game development.  


I would not say that NWC meant payback for heroes... Also it is known that one can play at 0 resources or with many resources at start of game. However, I would agree that NWC meant more dynamic character of game when made heroes so cheap...
I would set cost to 3500 gold ...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 09, 2018 04:08 PM

Hero to prison in ERA, if you want to create a new option. We know that 2500g is right also prison. In H4 you pay to 1500g, 2000g or 2500g We don't need to 1500-2500g, because of H3 has built well. An option is only WoG, when half a trip to H4. This thread doesn't need a nonsense!
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 09, 2018 04:26 PM

Ben80 said:

I would not say that NWC meant payback for heroes


I would say they absolutely did. Creatures are easy to defeat early and always guarding gold or resources behind. When you have to fight to get the gold, that means heroes are the key, since you can transfer your army and have several fights during same turn.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted July 09, 2018 04:50 PM

Salamandre said:

I would say they absolutely did. Creatures are easy to defeat early and always guarding gold or resources behind. When you have to fight to get the gold, that means heroes are the key, since you can transfer your army and have several fights during same turn.


1) In the game you always should defeat guard and get resources and arts, irrespective of have you 1 hero or more. 2) Not always easily. If you mean random maps it is usually hard to defeat near monsters only with army of 1 tavern hero if you play with strong monsters option. But there are also usual maps, not random. 3) NWC did not mean so extensive usage of hero chains as it occured in reality.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 09, 2018 05:06 PM

Well, many things that you say are debatable, especially hero chain, as intensive chains were used in H2 (even more than H3 as hero got back ALL movement upon dismiss/hire) and H3 inherited all that without a scratch.

But all I basically say is that changing the cost of heroes will change subsequently many elements of the game, as it is played since 15 years. Probably not so much in fan designed not-so-hard maps, where time doesn't matter so much, but in multiplayer yes.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 09, 2018 11:49 PM

Salamandre said:
For instance, you assume that high level hero = good hero, which is not guaranteed at all, if the distribution of skills is AI made.


Just an example

____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 10, 2018 12:40 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:42, 10 Jul 2018.

Quote:
   I would not say that NWC meant payback for heroes




Quote:
I would say they absolutely did. Creatures are easy to defeat early and always guarding gold or resources behind. When you have to fight to get the gold, that means heroes are the key, since you can transfer your army and have several fights during same turn.


They did not think this way.

They though in AI battles with creatures you would have losses, which due to gamey tactics almost doesn't happen.

They also made heroes always come with creatures the "1 gremlin thing" didn't come up until the expansions.

In short NWC didn't think fast recruiting of heroes and heroes caravan would be so profitable.

In fact, one the great changes of H4 is removing heroes caravan. Herpoes come with no creatures at all too.
Not to mention adding prisons.
But because people hated H4 for unrelated reasons don't see this is a logical development that shows NWC's balacing thoughs on the matter.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 10, 2018 10:26 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 10:33, 10 Jul 2018.

Logical doesn't always mean inspired. It failed.

bloodsucker said:
Just an example


Not so bad for a crap witch. Logistic/pathfinding + air save the honor of AI picks.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 10, 2018 10:45 AM

How about just making those crap skills better?, in the example above Learning and First Aid for example…

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 10, 2018 10:56 AM

Well, I did it, in wog they are just great. Do same for SoD if you don't play wog.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 10, 2018 11:45 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:48, 10 Jul 2018.

Well so did I, but I don't understand why HotA has'nt done it yet. (They already did Scouting and Necromancy so...)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 10, 2018 04:09 PM

And then in WoG you need necromancy skill
One skill in H4, witch looks Bard class is a really good skill, but AI uses beastmaster.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted July 11, 2018 03:22 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 15:24, 11 Jul 2018.

Quote:
Well so did I, but I don't understand why HotA has'nt done it yet. (They already did Scouting and Necromancy so...)


Too much purism?
But they say they are working on changing working of spells so you can hope still...

Making first aid tent stack and resurrect was a good WoG idea.

Quote:
Logical doesn't always mean inspired. It failed.


It was rushed and underfunded, doesn't mean removing obvious exploits wasn't a good idea, including the ones that makes games become an endless chain of heroes passing creatures around the map.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted July 11, 2018 06:57 PM

Verdish is also defender in town, remember use a scholar. In WoG first aid can be over 30 then x 75 = over 2250HP.

Just the game was a misfortune, but I won the game: armorer, artillery, wisdom, first aid, estates, and offense skills with. All expert, and primary skills were 13, 16, 21, 8. I defended my town, and then attacked them. Allied AI played as well. 2 allied vs all enemies in random map. It's one strategy, for example. Yes fun that my hero was strong lead. Hero really defender as scout, and secondary hero.

I revealed a secret too much. Hm water helps also much. Cure and dispel are very powerful. You think that those should be 3 level, but I say wrong. H3 has made a balance

Magic arrow is also powerful, when it meant 6-7 level against if you are defender, etc Immune to magic arrow? Move to 5-6 level
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0661 seconds