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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Are there imbalances in HOMM 3 ?
Thread: Are there imbalances in HOMM 3 ? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted April 28, 2016 12:27 PM

Without a doubt homm3 is unbalance

Diplomacy armageddon angel wings cloak of undead king armor of the damned armageddons blade cartographia hillfort dimension door fly logistic heroes are too strong should be banned.

Also conflux and castle both very strong. Should be ban in multiplayer games.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted April 28, 2016 08:53 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:36, 28 Apr 2016.

After Heroes III, 3DO made a very good attempt in that direction with Heroes IV. No Fly, no DD, no specialties so no OP heroes.
As Salamandre pointed somewhere they went bankrupted. After that Heroes V announced a return to the tradition, meanning Heroes III.
One thing tough, I don't believe anyone at 3DO or NWC at the moment they decided to create an artifact like Cloack of the Undead King ever dreamed you and me could be here, today discussing this.
They made some coll artifacts to be played in the campaigns and they went viral also because of the new RMG that allow for a totally new competitive play. In the beginning people played custom maps, so to have or not a totally overpowered artifact on map is choice of the mapmaker. Of course, when you are almost one hundred percent sure you will be able to assemble some of them in any random map things get out of control but you notice how OP Horn of the Abyss (the artifact) is? But very cleverly is not a combo artifact. If Cloack was a special artifact and Armageddon's Blade a combo we woundn't hear as many complaints. Did ever heard someone complaining about how OP Vial of Dragon Blood is? Why? Cause you have to put it on map. Now, Wizard's Well, Armorer of the Damned, Cloack or the Barbarian Axe are artifacts you are almost sure to be able to assemble in any large map and they can turn the game balance in just a few turns.
Now, for competitive game you surelly want perfect ballance but to play for fun it's the opposit. To have an artifact that adds an attack to all melee creatures on Crag army is not OP, is fun. If is too easy for you use BAI, don't take things from the game, add more.  

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 28, 2016 09:01 PM

Heroes 3 will always be THE best Heroes game, imbalanced or not.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted April 28, 2016 09:03 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Heroes 3 will always be THE best Heroes game, imbalanced or not.


+1

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 09:18 PM

Well sure not everything is balanced there, but for me it makes sense that diplo or necro are so strong. After all, Heroes is not only a multiplayer game but also a platform for creating your own maps, where nobody wants "balanced" things, they want blood. Spurring blood, all over.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 28, 2016 09:21 PM

That's an odd statement. It means that people would prefer playing Necropolis because it is overpowered over other factions.

That sounds like a flaw. Of course, it is still better than simplifying things Ubi has made in the last two Heroes games.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 09:24 PM

Well, without doubt odd for those not making or playing custom maps. It makes no sense for randoms. Personally I don't like when balance makes no sense.

Being necro IS stronger than everyone else, period. No one else can raise skeletons from dead corpses.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 28, 2016 09:31 PM

When I was young and played Heroes 2, to begin with I always played Warlocks for the dragons. I don't think it's odd to prefer the more powerful option.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 09:35 PM

Exactly, I don't know from where comes this modern obsession for a "balanced" heroes game. Good heroes games as H2-H3 were never balanced, and this made the fun. H2 was outrageously unbalanced, with hit and run/speed depending then genies halving any army on hit. But was so fun to scratch your head while being attacked by such jerk using them.

I don't want a heroes chess-like game.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 28, 2016 09:48 PM

Salamandre said:
Exactly, I don't know from where comes this modern obsession for a "balanced" heroes game.


Well, it's just that the current system has its own flaws. Everyone has to aim for certain skills (without Offense and Defense the hero is doomed to fail), certain artifacts (angel wings, combo artifacts), certain armies (archangels, ancient behemoths) and certain heroes (logistics specialists). At least by multiplayer, the single maps don't have to follow this pattern, most of the time.

I'd prefer that everyone has a chance to win, regardless of which faction they choose. For only then, the most clever player can win things out, rather the one that has much greater things at his disposal from the very start.

Ubi tried to do something, but messed up big time. Twice.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 09:51 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 21:53, 28 Apr 2016.

In multiplayer people can agree on using this or not. And this is exactly what they do, and it does not hurt too much. Of course, the most fun games were when nothing was banned so when someone kicked your ass, it could have been be very humiliating how much luck he had. But is part of the show, you keep playing again and again, because, fortunately, some times you win too.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 28, 2016 09:59 PM

Well, I can't exactly know that, for sure, since I never played multiplayer online. I still respect it as a vital feature for Heroes games, but outside of hotseat, I can't exactly say for sure.

I can see the idea of getting powerful enough to defeat a faction that has a greater chance to win. But, sometimes, certain combinations are just too powerful to stay. Banning things helps, but don't you think there could've been a better solution?
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted April 28, 2016 10:11 PM

Salamandre said:
I don't want a heroes chess-like game.
Again you nailed it. I do want an heroes chess-like game, if I'm online making a fool of myself against a good player.
To play against AI I want the most craziest imballances like some special trick or artifact that allows me to win an unbeatable battle. As anedoctal example I remember to kill 21.000 gold golems with a little more then a few hundred sharpshooters and an angel to kite and in this the key artifact was the Ring Of the Magi.
Do you think this is a very OP artifact that should be banned? But that fight worths about 25 levels. Do you think that level up more then 20 times for a single fight is too OP and should be banned?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 10:13 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:13, 28 Apr 2016.

@Energy

I don't know, I like  the game as is it, minus the bugs for sure.

I never saw a perfectly balanced game, Age of Wonders also has its tricks, Civilization has its tricks, I mean who can pretend he posses the secret of balanced game while still keeping the randomness feeling which makes us play again and again.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 28, 2016 10:19 PM
Edited by EnergyZ at 22:27, 28 Apr 2016.

bloodsucker said:
Salamandre said:
I don't want a heroes chess-like game.
Again you nailed it. I do want an heroes chess-like game, if I'm online making a fool of myself against a good player.
To play against AI I want the most craziest imballances like some special trick or artifact that allows me to win an unbeatable battle. As anedoctal example I remember to kill 21.000 gold golems with a little more then a few hundred sharpshooters and an angel to kite and in this the key artifact was the Ring Of the Magi.
Do you think this is a very OP artifact that should be banned? But that fight worths about 25 levels. Do you think that level up more then 20 times for a single fight is too OP and should be banned?


That is a valid point. But the same good player would say the AI is predictable, no? It was just to outsmart the computer; doubt the same results would be when the gold golems would be led by an actual player. Come to think of it, I don't think such AI issues were still resolved... Besides, I was referring to the gameplay in general.

Also, Ring of the Magi just gave 50 more rounds to all blessings, curses and such. Not the most unbalanced artifact, unlike others.

Balance is relative and hard to discuss, for certain rules in single player do not apply in multiplayer and vice versa.

Salamandre said:

I never saw a perfectly balanced game, Age of Wonders also has its tricks, Civilization has its tricks, I mean who can pretend he posses the secret of balanced game while still keeping the randomness feeling which makes us play again and again.


Well, yeah, I don't think there can be a perfect balance. If there was, I don't think the game would be fun to play anymore.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted April 28, 2016 10:29 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 22:30, 28 Apr 2016.

EnergyZ said:
Not the most unbalanced artifact, unlike others.
Yeah, that's my point. That hero had about eight of power and something like 120 spellpoints at the most, even with the Ring he ended with the spellpoll almost depleted without it would be impossible BUT I doubled the melee damage of our friend Gundula in a single shooters fight. Doesn't this sounds too OP and something that should be banned?
It all dependends on what you are up against and if playing against BAI, that's even your choice.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted April 28, 2016 10:29 PM

Ah I remember that artifact, first time I read about it I thought it'd allow for 50 rounds forcefield.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted April 28, 2016 10:33 PM

And the moment AI has Dispel you're doomed and can never finnish the game? Not worthy.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 28, 2016 10:36 PM

And first time I played an H2 game online, I was a campaign killer and very proud about. The guy got Sorc town, day 1 week 2 I went left side from my town, he came from nowhere with a phoenix, cast lightning bolt, kill all my crusaders and run away. I then run to right side, he came from right side now, with a phoenix, he cast %&!# and run away. Game over, all my army were gone and all I saw from him was a Phoenix. 15 minutes game. And guess what,  next day I was asking for new game, all my blood asked for bloodthirsty revenge. Of course, he kept humiliating me for about 3 months before I saw him eat the dust once.

And boy, how happy I was that day.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 28, 2016 11:10 PM

Salamandre said:
I don't want a heroes chess-like game.

Actually I kinda see Heroes 3 as a very advanced kind of chess, but the difference between Heroes and chess is that chess is only about skill, heroes is about skill and luck and without luck I think the game would get boring pretty quickly.

Still I like the game to be as balanced as possible, all factions should have a chance to win and I'm very happy about what HotA did to the balance, Necropolis and Conflux was in need of some serious control.

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