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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: H5 - "Beginner's Map-Making Guide"
Thread: H5 - "Beginner's Map-Making Guide" This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 04, 2010 02:14 PM
Edited by markkur at 17:22, 05 Nov 2010.

Quote:
hi Markkur well IM far from a script "guru"  but got friends  here who helped me out   if not for them there wouldnt be any scripts in my maps at all  

(I'm more of a "modder" guy...  

Now you're splitting hairs. I have to "level-up" a lot to catch up with you either way.

Quote:
when it come to mapmaking... I started making maps back in the H3 days then h4 and ofc now  H5... (started to make maps on the beta version of the editor back in fall 2006)
I fell in love with that early (there was so much U could do only your imagination is your limit...  


{quote]and now... how  do I start (or what is your plan when you make a map?

well I'm the eye-candy type of guy... I like the map to look nice  and always with a few new "twist"  to it...

and the map  must be balanced and not  take to long to play
challenging...? well  hard but not to hard...
(I wanna reach almost any lvl. of players when it comes to skill)



We are "two peas in a pod" as the saying goes. I like making the map's scenery as much if not more than anything else. We're alike in with wanting to make a pleasing world view but different when it comes to the time factor to play. It is OK by me if a map is long-winded. I played too many maps early on (random-gens are horrible) that I could hardly even discover what abilites and skills would max out like. Everything was rush, rush, in more of a boxing ring. I like em all though. My moods sometimes matters

Question for you. I have made a huge Map called 'Dragons's Teeth'. It has a "beginning" story line about both Elvin factions fueding about who has the better dragons but it's only described in the map description box. I did the old HoMM3 thing with the map, it is a large dragon head. Remember the Griffin map? All of the Dragon Artifacts are in its teeth. There are three neutral factions to get in the way of the war between the light and the dark Elves. There is not a script on it for anything. Do you know of anyone here that would like to take what I've done thus far and tweek it with their own imagination, concerning scripting, mods or both? A joint-build so to speak? I'm not able to take it up a notch. After all the work I put into it, I think it would be a good map to do just that and I think most folks would agree, but I cannot do it.




____________
"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 04, 2010 02:50 PM
Edited by markkur at 14:52, 04 Nov 2010.

Quote:
Eyecandy, for the game, is useless. If you want to make a balanced, playable map, you won't need eyecandy. But does that look good? I've seen lots of maps where the mappers just added the map Objects, Towns and a few trees and mountains for the Borders. Nothing more! No mushrooms, no grass, no Stones, just...nothing. These maps look odd and boring, and it does not make fun to play them, even if they are the best balanced maps ever made. And that is the point where eyecandy comes. A well-designed, beautiful and changing landscape is the best way to evade boredom.
For example the flowers you mentioned, Markkur. And some of you may already know that I'm not only talking about landscape. Walking on floating Isles or high bridges, sailing in huge magma lakes or walk behind a giant waterfall gives the player a totally new game feeling. And yes, maps made by fiur, the new map made by Mike80D and of course the map Elysium by guano give you that feeling.


Well,now with your poetic descriptions we are three-peas-in-a-pod I have not played very many maps thus far. I've been enjoying learning to use the Editor much better. I needed too. Have you seen The Great Canyon? Turn-times were too long for me the day I tried it but man...what a world! Also there is one called Crepasculo or something like that and it was really well done. I am still trying to learn how he did the "flat bridges with chains" going to the inferno in the center of the underground.


Quote:
One more thing, do you want to talk about problems like Thumbnail images and PWL images too ? Because I would welcome that


I will at least provide a link to a guide, but have you got an idea? And want to run with it? I think I've saved something about PWL in my important-to-read folder but I've not learned how to do it yet. It is really silly that the Rand-Map-Gen will make two thumbnails and the M.E. won't in the same fashion. I have done the make "screenshot bit of course" and cannot see it. I bought Photoshop 9 but have not taken another step in making PWLs happen.

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El_Chita
El_Chita


Known Hero
Actually, my name is El Chita
posted November 04, 2010 09:24 PM

Quote:
I am still trying to learn how he did the "flat bridges with chains" going to the inferno in the center of the underground.

Doesn't belong here, but he just use existing models in the editor. No big deal, eh ?

Quote:
I will at least provide a link to a guide, but have you got an idea?

Well, actually, I don't know it myself ^^
At Celestialheavens, they have very good tutorials to those topics, maybe we should just link it and let it be.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 05, 2010 05:20 PM
Edited by markkur at 17:23, 05 Nov 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
I am still trying to learn how he did the "flat bridges with chains" going to the inferno in the center of the underground.



Quote:
Doesn't belong here, but he just use existing models in the editor. No big deal, eh ?


If it is an object in the editor (as it is) why not? I've tried to just 'place' them but so far, can't get them to do what I want. I also tried to 'attach chains' which are also an 'object choice' to pick 'as-is'. I think it must be a Z factor concerning height of the location cell on the map. After finishing this I'm goin to find out, if someone does not save me from having to do so

Quote:
Quote:
I will at least provide a link to a guide, but have you got an idea?



Quote:
Well, actually, I don't know it myself ^^
At Celestialheavens, they have very good tutorials to those topics, maybe we should just link it and let it be.


If that's the case I vote for that Would you supply the links? I am pretty much limited to HC due to battle between time and pain. I ask you a favor...Stay abreast of this project until it's completion? "Two heads" are better than one.
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El_Chita
El_Chita


Known Hero
Actually, my name is El Chita
posted November 07, 2010 04:10 PM

I'll do that, but I'm busy right now. This is the most useful link for now:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4191


And for the map Crepusculo:

AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Down_Bridge_Segment.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Chain_02.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\WallDown_04.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\WallInnerDown_01.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Down_Bridge_Door.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\W_Dno_Down.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\FireColumn_Duble.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Chain_01.(AdvMapStaticShared)

These are all objects he uses. U just put them together how you want and you have the bridge.
Don't get me wrong, but I don't know where the problem is.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 07, 2010 05:34 PM

Quote:
I'll do that, but I'm busy right now. This is the most useful link for now:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4191


And for the map Crepusculo:

AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Down_Bridge_Segment.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Chain_02.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\WallDown_04.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\WallInnerDown_01.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Down_Bridge_Door.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Dungeonwalls\W_Dno_Down.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\FireColumn_Duble.(AdvMapStaticShared)
AdvMapStaticShared:MapObjects\Subterra\Chain_01.(AdvMapStaticShared)

These are all objects he uses. U just put them together how you want and you have the bridge.
Don't get me wrong, but I don't know where the problem is.


Thank you El_Chita for providing the link. I take a look.

An thanks for the object list but honestly I'm a bIt confused. I have the elements (objects) of the bridge. As a matter of fact I tried again yesterday to see what may be my problem. I take the center panels of the flat bridge and make a span. Then I put end-pieces on both ends. But when I try to put land under the end as I do with the bridges on the upper map, the last panels do this strange curl-up and it is impossible for me to make the bridge land, flat on land? The chains are the same sort of issue. I cannot connect the bottom of the chains to the side of the bridge to give the hanging effect. The chains always originate on the floor down below and top-off pretty much at the height of the bridge? This has to be a "Z" issue doesn't it? I don't know, maybe the objects you've listed are different then what came with my ME.

I hope Your "busy" is a good thing. Thanks again for your help.
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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 10, 2010 03:23 PM

on my maps  Ive  tweaked both X,Y and Z  alot....to fit my objects
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 10, 2010 05:00 PM
Edited by markkur at 17:01, 10 Nov 2010.

Quote:
on my maps  Ive  tweaked both X,Y and Z  alot....to fit my objects


Thanks Fuir. I figured you would know and was a little worried you'd moved on from this thread.

Can you tell me which one (XYZ) lays down the curl or is it all three? Also, have you found an easy way to tell when you are on objects that do not 'light-up-when-cursored', like the flat-bridge/walkway-parts? I have a hellofatime knowing when I am on the right part and since if the part has to be moved all values return to zero.aaaarghhh

What I am doing now is: moving from right to left, for each one, picking an empty spot (on the map) above it and drag by mouse across the 'part/object' that I want to "edit" and see the zero values. But this method seems silly beyond belief.

Make a great day and thanks again
____________
"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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fiur
fiur


Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
posted November 11, 2010 04:02 PM

Quote:
Quote:
on my maps  Ive  tweaked both X,Y and Z  alot....to fit my objects


Thanks Fuir. I figured you would know and was a little worried you'd moved on from this thread.

Can you tell me which one (XYZ) lays down the curl or is it all three? Also, have you found an easy way to tell when you are on objects that do not 'light-up-when-cursored', like the flat-bridge/walkway-parts? I have a hellofatime knowing when I am on the right part and since if the part has to be moved all values return to zero.aaaarghhh

What I am doing now is: moving from right to left, for each one, picking an empty spot (on the map) above it and drag by mouse across the 'part/object' that I want to "edit" and see the zero values. But this method seems silly beyond belief.

Make a great day and thanks again


when  U move an object to a new spot its only the Z value who returns to zero (0)  x,y will still have ,x  something  vaule
and yes it can be a real pain that some object U select doent lit up
this editor  is far from userfriendly
but again I advice U to take a look at my maps  Im sure U'll get e few hints

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 11, 2010 04:11 PM
Edited by markkur at 18:02, 11 Nov 2010.

Quote:
when  U move an object to a new spot its only the Z value who returns to zero (0)  x,y will still have ,x  something  vaule
and yes it can be a real pain that some object U select doent lit up
this editor  is far from userfriendly
but again I advice U to take a look at my maps  Im sure U'll get e few hints


Forgot all about that. I'm having some rough-days, so thanks again for the reminder. I will actually..."follow your advice" this time

Btw, are you still making maps? Seems like I came to HC too late. The thrill is gone for many?.

Edit= You've got quite a list Fuir. What (short-list) would you recommend I learn from for now?
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"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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El_Chita
El_Chita


Known Hero
Actually, my name is El Chita
posted November 12, 2010 06:07 PM

Quote:
I hope Your "busy" is a good thing. Thanks again for your help.
Trust me, it is

I've looked at the map (again^^) and there is honestly no object placed on coordinates like (X:13.35 /Y:68.039 /Z:4.246). So if you match the objects, they should really look exactly like they are on the map Crepusculo.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted November 12, 2010 11:30 PM
Edited by markkur at 18:41, 17 Nov 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
I hope Your "busy" is a good thing. Thanks again for your help.



Quote:
Trust me, it is


Great. Good to hear.

Quote:
I've looked at the map (again^^) and there is honestly no object placed on coordinates like (X:13.35 /Y:68.039 /Z:4.246). So if you match the objects, they should really look exactly like they are on the map Crepusculo.


Okay you've convinced me. I will try again. or Cry again

Make a great day/map. Sounds you are on both counts.

Edit= Has anyone used Photoshop 9 for the PWL and thumbs? I need a helping hand.
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fulano
fulano


Known Hero
Can I link to my own avatar?
posted December 08, 2010 05:37 AM

So I put your guide here, it looks to be quite a good one!  Keep up the good work around here!

http://heroes5.wikia.com/wiki/Beginning_Map-Making_Guide

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted December 08, 2010 11:34 AM

Quote:
So I put your guide here, it looks to be quite a good one!  Keep up the good work around here!

http://heroes5.wikia.com/wiki/Beginning_Map-Making_Guide


Thanks man. I went and took a look and saw a couple of typos that I didn't see before, How can I edit it there? I fixed them here.

You are doing a good job, the site is shaping up. I liked the sponser links...pretty cool. I should write something with a full list of the links in mind beforehand. That would have to be fun. Something like this; In making a map, you have to think 'Defense' (link to NFL defensive stats and a beer)because sometimes you don't want to be 'offensive'(link to speedstick ad)
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"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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fulano
fulano


Known Hero
Can I link to my own avatar?
posted December 08, 2010 04:49 PM

I forgot to look at the ads, when you create an account they don't show the ads anymore.  I learned that at 1:00am last night while I was trying to decipher Fiur's PWL tutorial and thought "I really should see what that looks like before I finish tonight"  But being as late as it was I completely forgot.  

You can actually edit anything you like without being a member.  Just click the orange edit button at the top of the page.  Wikia's got an okay wiki editor so you don't even have to understand wikis to edit things.

You don't have to be a member to edit pages, I worked on several different pages before I broke down and got an account.  It is free to sign up as well if you plan to edit more things or want your name to show up on your edits so I know who's changing things.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted December 08, 2010 04:57 PM

Quote:
You don't have to be a member to edit pages, I worked on several different pages before I broke down and got an account.  It is free to sign up as well if you plan to edit more things or want your name to show up on your edits so I know who's changing things.


Not wanting to steal your thunder man You know, If you would like some help...let me know. I guess I could assist you in some manner. Flying solo can be a drag. For now I'll go around and look for the spelling stuff. (In my post and others) Good assist?
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fulano
fulano


Known Hero
Can I link to my own avatar?
posted December 08, 2010 05:32 PM

Actually I'd rather have others help work on it, that's why I'm moving things to wikia.  That way people can hopefully keep working on it again and it doesn't need as much work to maintain it because the wikia staff are supposed to be watching for spam and getting rid of it.

Thanks for your help by the way!  

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted December 08, 2010 06:58 PM
Edited by markkur at 20:09, 23 Dec 2010.

I am nearing the end of my Guide and I have a few questions that I really hope someone can help me with.

1. Geometry - What's it used for? Some short simple overview?
2. For "Random Dwellings" I've tried to place all seven dwellings outside of a random town and set them to match that player number with the hope they would match the random town but it did not happen. What did I do wrong? Can I make them match whatever the faction is, that the random town becomes?
3. Is anyone here that has the "Map Objectives" selections down-pat(some of them) or knows of an existing link that explains these settings? Player specific, secondary etc. maybe what should be avoided?
4. I would welcome an explanation of the "Reserved heroes list" and how it works or link. Just to verify I have the right idea.
5. Does anyone know of any thread/site that well explains the H5 Campaign Editor? I have so far found very little even mentioning it.

Appreciate any help (even a vague idea)with this stuff.
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"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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El_Chita
El_Chita


Known Hero
Actually, my name is El Chita
posted December 27, 2010 04:40 PM

Very specific questions, and I think I can answer only the first...a bit ^^
As long as I understood right what Pesmontis tried to explain me, the geometry describes the shape of a model. Additionally, (this one I really know) the Geometry defines how many Materials a Model will have and numbers them, so when you put a Material, let's say on [0], the editor knows exactly where to lay the texture over the model.
Every Model has a geometry, and only creatures or heroes have a skeleton too, for anmations.

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fulano
fulano


Known Hero
Can I link to my own avatar?
posted December 27, 2010 05:11 PM

Quote:

2. For "Random Dwellings" I've tried to place all seven dwellings outside of a random town and set them to match that player number with the hope they would match the random town but it did not happen. What did I do wrong? Can I make them match whatever the faction is, that the random town becomes?


Yes, but I'm not sure why it's not working for you because I've had it work almost every time.

I just select the dwelling and press spacebar then pick which player I want the dwelling to be like.  I've never tried matching the dwellings with a specific town though.

It didn't work for me the first time because I was trying to change it in the properties window on the left instead of pressing spacebar.  I'm not sure why that made a difference, I imagine it is just one of the map editor's bugs.

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