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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: H5 - "Beginner's Map-Making Guide"
Thread: H5 - "Beginner's Map-Making Guide" This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV
markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted April 15, 2015 01:42 PM
Edited by markkur at 13:48, 15 Apr 2015.

ceken4 said:
Could you give me some post talking about combat programing in LUA?


iirc unfortunately H5 Scripting-discussion was/is a documented mess w/o organization. I've never been a scripter but at one time I thought I might go there. Also a shame...the site were I posted a few links to some interesting stuff no longer exists.

Just in case, if you did not see this link in my OP;

The Basics of Heroes V Scripting ver. 2.01 for H5, HOF, & ToTE
http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=567

This is the best effort I know but it is not a dialogue. You could ask Kalah at CH where the "Map-Editor-Sticky" ended-up? when they merged H5 and H6 threads; I looked forever and could not find it. I know there were several scripting discussions in it but they stretched over a lot of time. However I cannot say if there was anything directly related.

ceken4 said:
Do you have some LUA script collection?

That guide above lists many. I "assume" they have included everything from the PDFs given with the game but you should make sure.

Can't help more than that, sorry. Hmm, though you could ask some talented men still about the place, like Mag (RPE Edition) or Frosty who sometimes pops in when he has the time.

Make it great
____________
"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted April 05, 2016 06:41 PM

I noticed that you said that the Map Editor prefers 8 towns.  I'm aiming to reproduce a Heroes 3 map that had 23 towns - part of what makes the Heroes experience a Heroes experience for me at all is the existence of a multitude of expansions.  I've always been wondering why every H5 map and the RMG never had much in the way of towns.  So can I go above 8, or is this a lost cause?

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted April 20, 2016 03:49 PM

Gidoza said:
I noticed that you said that the Map Editor prefers 8 towns.  I'm aiming to reproduce a Heroes 3 map that had 23 towns - part of what makes the Heroes experience a Heroes experience for me at all is the existence of a multitude of expansions.  I've always been wondering why every H5 map and the RMG never had much in the way of towns.  So can I go above 8, or is this a lost cause?


I've went beyond but not much. The reason (and I'm guessing) that UBI had that limit is simple...Turn-Times.

Because, a HUGE impact is number of Factions. i.e. For contrast; If you have only 2 Factions and 50 castles, your Turn-times will be maxed-out for 16 Heroes and never go beyond that. Now take your 23 towns, if you have all 8 Factions you could get 64 Heroes that each need a movement turn.

With the "J" A.I. this is more problematic early because Q makes the A.I. play like a human would for "early-game creeping" so when a faction has only 1 town you still have 3 Heroes starting the game the 1st week for each faction. 8x3= 24 roaming Heroes from the gitgo. And the longer the game lasts the more processing time required.

Then there is Map-Size and Objects put on the map that also plays a role. i.e. A map with no waving trees, no splashing waves requires less PC resources. That's why I only make oceans on limited maps and use the water-brush for larger maps and also why I will follow the same course usually with fixed-objects versus animated-objects. You'll just have to find YOUR formula. My maps, if studied should give you a sound jumpstart for minimal problems...although a few I push the bar.
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Gidoza
Gidoza


Known Hero
posted April 20, 2016 05:13 PM

markkur said:
Gidoza said:
I noticed that you said that the Map Editor prefers 8 towns.  I'm aiming to reproduce a Heroes 3 map that had 23 towns - part of what makes the Heroes experience a Heroes experience for me at all is the existence of a multitude of expansions.  I've always been wondering why every H5 map and the RMG never had much in the way of towns.  So can I go above 8, or is this a lost cause?


I've went beyond but not much. The reason (and I'm guessing) that UBI had that limit is simple...Turn-Times.

Because, a HUGE impact is number of Factions. i.e. For contrast; If you have only 2 Factions and 50 castles, your Turn-times will be maxed-out for 16 Heroes and never go beyond that. Now take your 23 towns, if you have all 8 Factions you could get 64 Heroes that each need a movement turn.

With the "J" A.I. this is more problematic early because Q makes the A.I. play like a human would for "early-game creeping" so when a faction has only 1 town you still have 3 Heroes starting the game the 1st week for each faction. 8x3= 24 roaming Heroes from the gitgo. And the longer the game lasts the more processing time required.

Then there is Map-Size and Objects put on the map that also plays a role. i.e. A map with no waving trees, no splashing waves requires less PC resources. That's why I only make oceans on limited maps and use the water-brush for larger maps and also why I will follow the same course usually with fixed-objects versus animated-objects. You'll just have to find YOUR formula. My maps, if studied should give you a sound jumpstart for minimal problems...although a few I push the bar.



Meh, I don't mind a long turn time if the game is good.


Do you want to just look at what I've done and give any hints?  All that's left really is putting in the game objectives and putting trees on the map.  Unless you'd be interested in putting in the pretty trees.  =D

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HeroicDman81
HeroicDman81


Hired Hero
posted August 24, 2016 11:17 AM
Edited by HeroicDman81 at 11:42, 24 Aug 2016.

lighting...

To the OP for edit...

Creating LIGHTING effects for various objects, instead of playing with the X,Y,Z numbers to change the colors, (A much simpler method coming...) if you select DIRECTLY on the LINE stated "Color", the field shows up showing X, Y, Z numbers side to side, and following that field, FAR right, is a small option BOX with "..." in it. Select the Box, opening a new window that shows the Color spectrum, with about 25 colors and thousands of shades per color, and you can find you color MUCH EASIER. When found, and wanna use for later use, "Save Custom Color" option at bottom of the SHADES box of window, but make sure you first started by selecting a Custom save box on the left, or it saves over the last custom box you saved on. Once you hit OK, your numbers for that Color are auto entered into the Color field. No need to play with numbers.

Just a matter of adjusting the Height (Z) and the radius of the light!!


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HeroicDman81
HeroicDman81


Hired Hero
posted August 24, 2016 11:41 AM
Edited by HeroicDman81 at 11:48, 24 Aug 2016.

My question is...

When I create a Lighting effect for, say a Torch on the Wall, or Mushrooms on the ground, for the Dungeons... I want to create about, idk, 20, 30, 50 of those throughout the dungeon. I'm trying a lighting scheme (First time Editor for HOMM V, but been on this map for weeks now), I'm using Dbl Fire-columns, which have two fire pits stacked, hanging from ceiling...i'm creating (0) lighting with bright yellow, Z-6 high, and radius of 15, and then (1) lighting with dark Orange, Z-3 high, and radius of 6-8 (haven't found my radius for the lower pit), for the one Column. However, will probably have about 50 of these fire columns in the entire dungeon (maybe I'm exagerating)...
Than...
I'm laying out 1x2 and 2x2 Mushrooms with one color lighting scheme, nearly bright white, like 3 shades to grey, 2 high on Z, and radius of 5 or 10... there will probably be AT LEAST 50 of those in dungeon scattered about under the flaming pits. and a couple other limited unique lighting as well... besides the point...

SO
the problem is. Duplicating the same lighting scheme for each similar object! Now I know I can RIGHT click on the pointLights for the first item, than COPY, and than individually PASTE to each one... but doing this for upto 50 Double Fire Columns, TWICE (needs 2x lighting schemes) and atleast 50 Mushrooms, I will need to select 150+ items, and right click pointLights, and Paste... is VERY redudently difficult!!

I thought there would be an easier way. I had Five Mushrooms layed out, and selected all five in the Map Properties list (did so 2x diff ways; I first dragged cursor box around all 5 in list, which selected all 5, or I clicked the first, and held SHIFT and down arrows til all 5 highlighted) on the left, and it still allowed the property options for the object, so I right clicked the pointLight and clicked Paste, thinking it would add the Lighting Scheme for all 5 mushrooms... or 50 mushrooms, and change them all, just by highlighting there listed titles and adding new lighting, and pasting schemes... and all selected would change as requested... SO I THOUGHT!! IT did NOT! Only changed the the top one.

So I thought, well maybe another way to mass change the objects... maybe If I select the object from the Objects available list on the right (Tools/Objects/Filterlist/Sub Terra Objects), and before I placed on map, I adjusted the "pointLights" details for item before hand, that every time I place new object it automatically places with the settings edited on object before placing... for effects after... again... SO I THOUGHT!! It did NOT!

SO... is there any way of CHANGING, or EDITING the MASS NUMBERS of LIKE ITEMS; such as torches, and mushrooms, and other items??

Please say yes... i really hope there is!!

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 24, 2016 12:09 PM

HeroicDman81 said:
To the OP for edit...

Creating LIGHTING effects for various objects, instead of playing with the X,Y,Z numbers to change the colors, (A much simpler method coming...) if you select DIRECTLY on the LINE stated "Color", the field shows up showing X, Y, Z numbers side to side, and following that field, FAR right, is a small option BOX with "..." in it. Select the Box, opening a new window that shows the Color spectrum, with about 25 colors and thousands of shades per color, and you can find you color MUCH EASIER. When found, and wanna use for later use, "Save Custom Color" option at bottom of the SHADES box of window, but make sure you first started by selecting a Custom save box on the left, or it saves over the last custom box you saved on. Once you hit OK, your numbers for that Color are auto entered into the Color field. No need to play with numbers.

Just a matter of adjusting the Height (Z) and the radius of the light!!


Do things as you see fit but I found few color variations that made any difference...to my eyes anyway. The radius of light is also the strength of the light and you'll find on objects near to each other you will have to adjust different colors because they are in close proximity. I finally ended working mostly with 1 or .5 in the fields, with a few odd-balls that worked ok.

The thread was called "beginners" so you can certainly add any discoveries you make that I didn't cover.
____________
"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 24, 2016 12:22 PM
Edited by markkur at 12:24, 24 Aug 2016.

As far as copy paste, I just dragged and copy/pasted large groups with zero keystrokes. "the larger the group, the longer it takes Paste to work. Also, my Editor would get fickle after a time about Pasting, so I would have to scroll to another area of the map and if that didn't work I would re-copy the object and start again.

As far as PL and C/P, for precise lighting...all light-centers are directional and they are not the same object to object. However, once you have an object the way you want it, i.e. a Dwarven Torch so it lights the wall/crag just around the wall surface, what I did was copy that one and then pasted it into all walls of that direction and then adjusted the light to work on the next direction and C/P again until I had finished all 4 directions of Crags in the area.

Funny about the Mushrooms, I did that a few times. My Power of Dragons "new player-map" was one of them iirc.
____________
"Poetry is a felt change of consciousness"

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HeroicDman81
HeroicDman81


Hired Hero
posted August 30, 2016 11:50 PM
Edited by HeroicDman81 at 23:57, 30 Aug 2016.

more questions...

I am trying to figure out the window on left, the Map Property Tree...

I've played with a little, specifically creating lighting effects, but there seems to be SOOOO much more to the tree, and the options and power that it has for the map!

For instance, trying to discover Victory conditions, upon exploring the tree, I discovered Map Property Tree> Objectives> Primary> Common> (0)> KIND> OBJECTIVE_KIND_CAPTURE_ALL_TOWNS.

I played with list, exploring the options in it, and found the option I want, for players 1-4 of 5 players total. Under (0)> Kind> i got OBJ_KIND_CAPTURE_ANY_TOWN... but how to specify which town I thought??
under ... Common> (0)> Parameters I can choose (ADD) in drop list with Right click on Parameters... I choose ADD and a (0) comes under the Parameter option with a BLANK field. Is this where I specify WHAT the objective is?

Parameters to CAPTURE ANY TOWN? List Town Name here?

Problem is, I don't want same victory condition for all 5 players. Players 1-4 are Human/AI optional, whereas Player 5 is AI only! The objective i'm creating for map, is 1-4 need to capture city 5, and hold for 1 week. Instead of beefing up a Nuetral Town, and making it a capture only objective for the ultimate win... I wanted challenge of defeating a growing menace, who could possibly conquer you instead... a GROWING EVIL! So I'm trying to create where any 4 the human/ai players capture 5, they hold it for 1 week to win... or they capture all the other adversaries and player 5, and they win with that as well.

So "Common> (0)> KIND> OBJECTIVE_KIND_CAPTURE_ALL_TOWNS" under Primary, applies to all players, including player 5, which already owns the town.
Than I discover... > Primary> Playerspecific> (0)/(1)/(2)/-(7) for 8 players. Under any (#)> Objectives> (0)> KIND (same options) &/or > Parameters, under list of (0).

SO i am guessing I can create similarly the same Victory conditions for players 1-4 and a different objective for Player 5 (capture all towns).

My question is, I don't know exactly HOW to use all the options in this list... their sooo many more available.... I don't understand them all!

For example...
Under > Primary> Playerspecific> (2)> Objectives>
Though it lists the preemptive list for each... sorry!
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Name
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].CaptionFileRef
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].ObscureCaptionFileRef
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].DescriptionFileRef
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].ProgressCommentsFileRef
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Kind OBJECTIVE_KIND_CAPTURE_ANY_TOWN
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Parameters
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Parameters.[0] Ur-Chardros
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Timeout -1
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Holdout -1
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].CheckDelay -1
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Dependencies
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].InstantVictory false
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Type ADV_TARGET_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Name
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Coords
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Coords.FloorID 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Coords.cell
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Coords.cell.x 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Target.Coords.cell.y 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Radius 10
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TargetGlance.Duration 5000
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Type AWARD_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Experience 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Wood 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Ore 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Mercury 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Crystal 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Sulfur 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Gem 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Resources.Gold 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Attribute HERO_ATTRIB_DEFENCE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.AttributeAmount 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.ArtifactID ARTIFACT_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.SpellID SPELL_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.ArmySlot
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.ArmySlot.Creature CREATURE_UNKNOWN
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.ArmySlot.Count 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.SpellPoints 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Morale 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.Luck 0
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.SkillWithMastery
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.SkillWithMastery.Mastery MASTERY_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Award.SkillWithMastery.SkillID HERO_SKILL_NONE
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].TakeContribution false
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].CanUncomplete false
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].IsInitialyActive true
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].IsInitialyVisible true
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].IsHidden false
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].Ignore false
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].ShowCompleted true
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].NeedComplete true
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].StateChangeTrigger
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].StateChangeTrigger.Action
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].StateChangeTrigger.Action.FunctionName
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].SoundActivated null
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].SoundComplete null
Objectives.Primary.PlayerSpecific.[2].Objectives.[0].SoundFailed null


ANYONE help me understand what some of the options are? AND what do I enter in the field for Parameters if I choose the City? City Name? City Coordinates? Player Number? etc etc? Is that all I Need? Define the KIND? Define the Parameters of it? For players 1-4?

Edit...
Kind> OBJECTIVE_KIND_CAPTURE_ANY_TOWN
> Parameters> [0]> Ur-Chardros

These were my own edits, trying to test, trial and error, etc. I'm not sure if I did it right?? Ur-Chardros is the iNferno town that is the objective.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted August 31, 2016 10:12 AM

Nival must have had a numeric list for towns, like they had for creatures and artifacts but where that list is...I've never seen one. Like H6 & H7 the Editor in H5 was not ready at game release so what you are looking at could have been a way to set the map without scripting but never finished. But that is only a guess.

Go to CH and download the Scripting-Guide (2.1 i think) because it does have some other numbers you can use and of course you can also learn scripting.

You might figure out your town idea but without the town ID I doubt it. Wish I had better news.

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HeroicDman81
HeroicDman81


Hired Hero
posted August 31, 2016 12:39 PM

markkur said:
Nival must have had a numeric list for towns, like they had for creatures and artifacts but where that list is...I've never seen one. Like H6 & H7 the Editor in H5 was not ready at game release so what you are looking at could have been a way to set the map without scripting but never finished. But that is only a guess.

Go to CH and download the Scripting-Guide (2.1 i think) because it does have some other numbers you can use and of course you can also learn scripting.

You might figure out your town idea but without the town ID I doubt it. Wish I had better news.


Town ID be the Town Name? I would think? the official name listed in the town properties? Idk! It may just end up being a kill everyone objective unless I can find a way to set up the Property Tree. I have played with it a little bit. For instance, the lighting effects, and changing height of objects...

Using the Property Tree's, I even managed to go as far as putting a bright mushroom down inside the Pits of dungeon holes, by changing the POS Z to -3 or -5 or something like so on top of the hole tiles... and it works wonders graphically! including lighting up the inside of those holes, which no hero will ever go down into, effectively... but ... eye candy! done with property trees... so there probably a way, just a matter of finding what all the property tree listings mean...

Hopefully... someone reading this... will know!

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