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| Thread: Would the European countries be better or worse if there was no EU? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2010 07:18 PM |
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Voikal:
So you actually care about Bulgaria, then? (Bulgaria in itself, I mean.)
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Eccentric Opinion
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted October 20, 2010 07:22 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 19:35, 20 Oct 2010.
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Quote:
Also what bugs me the most that one of the requirements for joining the EU, was for us to shut down our soviet era nuclear powerplant in several years after we join. It was shutted down in december 31 last year.
LoL! But they forced us to shut down our nuclear powerplant as well, all the experts were saying that is in perfect condition. There was subscription around, and people got like 3 million signed against the destruction of our electricity independence, and no one cared about it. Bulgaria was the major electricity producer and exporter on the Balkans. It was the biggest item in the budget income. Why they did it? You know great powers need to sell electricity here, and they can not if we do it. Still our nuclear powerplant work on 1/3 of it original capacity. There are electricity crashes over time because of this.
Quote:
So you actually care about Bulgaria, then? (Bulgaria in itself, I mean.)
Motherland and the state are two different things. I like the motherland, not the state.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted October 20, 2010 07:27 PM |
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Funny, we here have approved two new reactors to be built, with one in construction and 3 operational  (so in total we would have like 7 reactors, a bit many?).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2010 07:32 PM |
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Good gracious.
I suppose, the forces and ideas of yesterday are everywhere.
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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted October 20, 2010 08:08 PM |
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Well if you hate Europe so much, why won't you start the revolution?
I wonder if the coc forbids rousing revolution in Eastern-European countries.
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted October 20, 2010 08:22 PM |
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Hate? I don't it. I just don't care about it.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2010 10:14 PM |
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I both like and dislike things about EU.
Positive
* Europe is the most stable continent atm and I think EU helps keep Europe being stable.
* Poor countries get the help they need through crisis etc (Greece etc).
* Travelling is easier.
Dislike
* Many times, EU is just ridiculous. They spend huge amounts on completly nescessary stuff such as how bananas and cucumbers look.
* Sometimes it is annoying that we have to pay for the wellfare of other poor countries that just have 99% corruption anyway. Feels like wasted money that could be spent on better things.
* Some ridiculous laws that we, the populations of these countries, can in no way vote on. Like there was an EU law that came to Sweden about downloading/file sharing that 90% of all Swedes were against and we had nothing to say against it plus some politicans in the EU are suggesting crazy things like banning people from the internet when the society in modern countries is largely based on the internet with banks etc.
* I do not feel that Sweden gains anything from being a member of the EU. Through it, we give lots of stuff to other poor countries but we do not get anything but laws our people doesn't even want.
* I do not want the United States of Europe. At all. If Sweden is going to go into another country, than either it would ONLY be western Europe though I would actually want a country called Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway and Denmark - we three do not have much in common with Finland and Iceland).
My Vision of EU
* EU should not spend stuff on unnesscessary minor stuff but instead focus its money on large issues that threaten the stability of Europe. Perhaps EU should get a common large military force but EU should never ever become a full country.
* Every major descision they make, they should let the Europeans vote on. I find it very annoying EU can come up with a law and then we in Sweden are forced to agree with it even if we do not agree with it.
But what Xerox really wants...
is a Nordic Union. Sweden, Norway and Denmark become a single country - Scandinavia. We just have soooo much in common and already open borders and we all have monarchies. All three "countries" would retain their capitals. I would not force everybody to learn Swedish but I would say that everybody should learn a second Scandinavian language in school so Swedes would be able to in the first grade choose if they want to learn Norwegian or Danish and Norway if they want to learn Swedish or Danish. Swedish and Norwegian and Norwegian and Danish are so similiar so it would not be hard.
Instead of being in the EU if it contiunes this route, the country of Scandinavia would form the Nordic Union together with Finland and Iceland. We already share military bases in the Middle-East, the Nordic Battle Groups. I think the Nordic Union's first priority would be to help the Baltic countries get to a higher standard (yes, I know they are far from poor countries but it is still a very big difference when you take a cruise from Stockholm to like Riga or Tallink).
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted October 20, 2010 10:15 PM |
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Ein Reich, Ein Folk, Ein XEROX!!
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 20, 2010 10:18 PM |
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Well I am reading about nationalism in school now and basically school says that if many small nations share culture and language etc, they could form a single more powerful and healthy country. We also recently led a few pages on that german guy who united Germany (Bismarck I think, he has a very funny propaganda statue where he looks like a viking or something).
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted October 21, 2010 08:32 AM |
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When those 3 countries have been united in the past, things went so well didn't they?
*cough*
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 21, 2010 10:23 AM |
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What I don't like about UE is that it forces its rules on ALL countries which is stupid cause they don't have the same background. A trivial example: banning the traditional 100W lightbulbs may not bother people in Germany, but we poor Poles actually do notice spending 10x more cash on an "ecological" lightbulb. So we buy them at black market and give a finger to UE directive.
What's the point of such rules? If you want to make "ecological" improvements that cost a lot, why not start with countries that can actually support it? Without it being a burden.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 21, 2010 12:35 PM |
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Ein reich, ein folk, ein Scandinava.
Well, I doubt Scandinavia would need to learn 2 languages. We just need to force people to listen to a bit more diverse language, the result will be that we understand each other better without any real downside except possible language merge in 100-200 years.
We should do fine, since we won't get the power struggle delux like last time....
Quote:
My Vision of EU
* Every major descision they make, they should let the Europeans vote on. I find it very annoying EU can come up with a law and then we in Sweden are forced to agree with it even if we do not agree with it.
I don't think "the people voting" would solve anything, nor to be effective enough.
I doubt the politicians themselves are able to doubt or get things done reasonably.
Lets give up the idea of "people" to be able to actually realise what is a stake, and what can be at stake, and what can be discussed.
I would recommend reading up a bit on Platons ideal society, quite clever.
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted October 21, 2010 12:42 PM |
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Doomforge, you don't need to buy old lightbulbs on the black market, the shops sell them as usual only that now they are labelled as "industrial purpouses only" or something like that. So don't try using them at home 
So far I'm enjoying my European self no less than I was before we joined. Traveling is a bit easier and we have a wastewater treatment plant partially funded by the EU so I can't complain.
Declaring snails as "land fish" or setting standard shapes for cucumbers isn't impressive though. Those snows should actually start working for their money.
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none of my business.
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2010 01:31 PM |
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*Sigh*
Government is all about jurisdictions.
The art is to decide
a) which legislation and decisions are made on which level and
b) how many "levels" of government" should be there and where.
If you consider the whole planet, in theory the levels would start (or end, depending on the angle) at the whole planet: something like the UN, but obviously organized differently.
The next level might be contients or eco-politic "blocks" or even "states"; next one might be countries or "provinces"; and the next one counties, the cities/towns/villages/communities...
So the task is 1) to find the right "administrative tree", so-to-speak, and 2) to sort out, which authorities to give each level of administration.
That's all there is to it.
As a matter of course, and that should be extremely easy to see, the bigger the actual community of people is ho live with each other in peace, the more "rights" and "decision authoriy" has to be transferred from small organization level to bigger ones, otherwise it doesn't work.
However, in practise this is QUITE difficult. As an easy example take education. There is nothing wrong with leaving the details of education to local, that is, small administrative levels, for example County. However, OBVIOUSLY, the top level is concerned about MINIMUM requirements, the basic regulations, ALL conties would follow. To make matters more complicated, there may be regional differences, say of climatic nature, that would make it feasble to organize the general regulations in yet another way.
The bottom line is, that the Federation of Planets must be an administrative and jurisdictional nightmare.
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted October 25, 2010 02:14 PM |
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Edited by moonlith at 14:14, 25 Oct 2010.
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My Vision of EU
* Every major descision they make, they should let the Europeans vote on. I find it very annoying EU can come up with a law and then we in Sweden are forced to agree with it even if we do not agree with it.
I do remember the Netherlands and France were allowed to vote on a 'major occurrance', when they tried to push through a european constitution of sorts. No other country was allowed to vote.
It was voted down hard, and they pushed it through anyway under a different name, this time with only Ireland I believe allowed to vote. They voted no as well. It still got pushed through.
That's European democracy in a nutshell 
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted October 29, 2010 07:46 PM |
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@Vokial: About our nations' now inactive nuclear powerplants.
I have no knowledge of the Bulgaria's plant, but our's was a "Chernobyl" type. And it was more powerfull than the one near Pripyat. Before we joined we had one of the reactors shutted down. Now there are some other power plants scattered around the country, but they cover the city's needs. For example, the Kaunas hydroelectric plant can only supply enough power to the city's trolleybus lines. C'mon! Our nuclear plant was only online for about 34 years! Did the EU is afraid of another cherobylesque catastrophy? Or a terrosit attack which is laughable IMO. Maybe reasoable enough. But still. The stupidity lies again in our oligarch ruled goverment. Isn't six years more than enough to build a new 'european standart' nuclear plant? Now we have a whole town(Visaginas, also famous for it's country music festivals) currently full of unemployed people. Not to mention the rest of the country.
I who work in the construction business see a steady income. We(My dad's company) now renew soviet era buildings, including school and uni dorms(I oversee three brigades, we in total have eleven), however in order to sustain such amount of people we had to cut our salarys greatly. Our top specialists only get 1600(before the crisis it was 2400-2800 in our company at least) in litas. If our goverment had acted then we wouldn't be in this situation. But our goverment only sees themselves as citizens. We are trash. And I'm not talking only about the construction sector, everyone had been 'nerfed' sort of speak.
I'm still happy that our profession colleges sent us some very skilled students for boost their skills. Those kids have a good future if they don't screw up.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2010 10:05 PM |
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Edited by Raelag84 at 22:07, 29 Oct 2010.
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From some of the complaints I heard here it would seem that the E.U. needs some reform, and prehaps needs to be more sensitive to local needs and values. That said I am certain the E.U. has been good for Europe and for the world; it is good to see that European is less conflict prone than it was in the bad old days.
As a side note if the EU experiment works it would not be the first time in history people of diffrent ethnic backgrounds came together and formed a new and a new culture.
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