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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 09, 2010 12:52 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 12:56, 09 Nov 2010.
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Strange, I always figured US was supposed to have low taxes. And to my knowledge it does.
Here it's 30%(scales from 0 to 30%) max income tax from state, around 15-25(doesn't scale) from county and 1-2(doesn't scale) from church, pension, health care etc, are minor.
Rich person(income over 66000€/year) pays 55% income tax on average. Because the regular sales tax is 22% and cars plus petrol is high tax the total is around 70%.
Helping others is social security and healthcare. That's 55-60% of the state budget. If you want to include education(which's free and even supported through all levels of education in Finland so you should) it goes to around 70% of state budget. I didn't include it because universities aren't free in all of the socialist democracies and because primary schooling is free even in capitalist democracies.
You could probably up the number from 200 million to say 300 or maybe even 350 or 400(if you include britain) but the bare minimum is 200.
EDIT: I just checked the US income tax brackets. US income tax is bigger than ours. Just wow. How the hell do you people agree to that without getting any of the benefits, like free healthcare, free schooling or as good social security coverage? I can't imagine I would. Seems like a snowty deal for me. 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 09, 2010 05:41 PM |
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Do not forget that over 7 millions dollars are sent to Israel daily, for what is it worth. All from the tax payers of course. No money left for health care.
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Era II mods and utilities
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 09, 2010 07:54 PM |
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Joonas:
Don't know what you've heard, but we have free public education in the US.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 09, 2010 08:45 PM |
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Nothing is free
@Salamandre
Most of that money is because of the Camp David Accords (the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt). Egypt gets quite a bit of aid from the US also.
@Joonas
Again we are probably comparing apples to oranges. It's extremely difficult to add up all the taxes and expenses when they come from so many sources. It's even more difficult in the US with the sates being so different from each other. Their revenue sources vary a LOT. Some states have income tax and some don't. Some states have sales tax and some don't. They get their money from somewhere, but how they do it can vary a lot. Also at the federal level the tax rates you probably saw are after a bunch of deductions. So if someone makes 50K per year, the taxable portion may be less than 40K (maybe a lot less).
You mentioned a 22% sales tax in Finland. That's way higher than here. There is no federal sales tax, but I think the highest state sales tax is around 9-10%, maybe a little higher. I think most states are closer to 5-7%.
Quote:
How the hell do you people agree to that without getting any of the benefits, like free healthcare, free schooling or as good social security coverage?
We DON'T agree to it, at least not all of us. That's what this thread is about. We already get free education through high school and heavily subsidized education at the college level. There is already a massive amount of free health care also. The big problem is that the government WASTES huge amounts of money. It's not just a matter of the government spending money on things they shouldn't. They can't do anything efficiently. It's one thing to support some government program in theory. But when the programs are ineffective and inefficient then people no longer support it.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 09, 2010 09:55 PM |
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Quote:
You mentioned a 22% sales tax in Finland. That's way higher than here. There is no federal sales tax, but I think the highest state sales tax is around 9-10%, maybe a little higher. I think most states are closer to 5-7%.
Cook Country (Chicago, Illinois) has the highest sales tax in the country. It's 10.25% or thereabouts. Note that not all of that is from the state - approximately 1% is from the county, some is from the city, some is from the this and some is from the that. Also that doesn't apply to all items equally. Some types of items are exempt from sales tax. (In Pennsylvania, for example, clothes and most food is tax free. In Delaware, there's no sales tax at all!!).
Really, though, there's tax on everything.
You lose a big chunk of your income to it.
Then you are taxed on everything you buy.
You are taxed on your mortgage.
You are taxed on interest you make through investments.
The price of gasoline is like 50% tax.
There are sin taxes on cigarettes, alcohol.
You are taxed if you stay in a hotel.
You are taxed at restaurants.
You are taxed if someone dies and leaves you money.
When companies are taxed, they pass those taxes on to you. So not only do you pay a sales tax, but you are really paying hidden corporate taxes as well.
God, it never ends. Tax, tax tax tax tax. If you added up all that tax I bet you end up paying 70-80% of your salary to the government. Which is kind of funny, since the government is always out of money. 
I'm waiting for the federal government to institute a sales tax. Won't that be special?
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 09, 2010 11:02 PM |
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If you want to open a small business in Michigan, better be prepared for the "!@#$ YOU, SMALL BUSINESS!" Michigan Business Tax.
It truly is a mystery that Michigan's economy hasn't improved.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 10, 2010 01:24 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 06:35, 10 Nov 2010.
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Here is a pretty good article on the Tea Party and the Constitution
Make no mistake about it, whatever grass roots organizing that was done by the Tea Party has been highjacked by those on the far right who want to push their economic agenda of deregulation, low taxes on the plutocrats, and also by those who are looking to repackage the far right's stand on social issues.
Highest income tax bracket in the U.S. currently stands at I think about 35%. If the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, the ceiling goes back to 39.5%--the level during the Clinton administration. Note that this is still substantially lower than the 70-90% that this country had prior to Reagan (our president from 1980-1988).
Unearned income e.g. income derived from investments is taxed at about 16%, which is stupidly low.
Free trade is NOT fair trade. Our economic policies are responsible for the influx of latino immigrants. Captains of industry are drunk on cheap labor and have historically and still to this day use our suspicion of outsiders as weapons of division.
Tithing is not charity.
Eisenhower warned Americans of the military industrial complex and we have ignored him.
Audit the Fed. Audit the Pentagon. Military spending needs to be slashed by at least half. We cannot afford foreign quarrels with our infrastructure rotting the way it is. Americans need to realize we are an empire in decline and we have ourselves to blame for the way we have conducted ourselves.
Kick Israel in the ass, force them to stop annexing Palestinian lands, and force them to finally sue for peace. I see precious little difference between the slow asphyxiation of jews in gas chambers and the slow asphyxiation of Palestinians due to Israel's economic strangulation. Israel has exhausted its Holocaust capital and we should not support jewish carpetbaggers hellbent on aggression.
Don't believe the right when they say torture isn't torture when it's official American policy. It's still torture.
Reenact Glass-Steagall. Get a president to enforce the Sherman act and start busting up these monopolies. This won't happen until we change the way political campaigns are financed. With the Supreme Court's ruling in the Citizens United case, we must take steps to move towards pure public financing of our elections. Otherwise, we will all be in the thrall of our multi-national corporations.
That is all for now.
Edit: Grammar
Mod Note: Stick to the topic. Edited the personal attacks out
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 10, 2010 02:13 AM |
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1 week too late, Gootch.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 03:41 AM |
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A rare case of Gootch talking nonsense. It happens from time to time.
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Eccentric Opinion
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 10, 2010 03:55 AM |
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Eh? Show me where I'm talking nonsense. I'm always open to being corrected if I'm wrong.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 03:58 AM |
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This otta be good, can't wait to watch.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 04:18 AM |
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Quote:
Unearned income e.g. income derived from investments is taxed at about 16%, which is stupidly low...
Free trade is NOT fair trade...
Audit the Fed...
we are an empire in decline...
Reenact Glass-Stegall...
Get a president to enforce the Sherman act and start busting up these monopolies...
All of this is nonsense. I knew you were left-wing, but I was hoping you were at least smart enough not to jump on the "audit-the-Fed" wagon.
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Eccentric Opinion
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted November 10, 2010 04:37 AM |
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All you have done is reiterated your first point that I'm talking nonsense. You've shown nothing to convince me otherwise.
Yes my politics are left of center and it is through a continuing education that they've drifted in that direction.
Here is a sample from a writer I admire
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 04:46 AM |
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I wouldn't call any of those things left wing, except maybe the first one. I'm definitely not left wing and I agree with most of those, some of them strongly. Like totally ignoring the anti-trust laws is total bull****. Being anti-fed is a right wing thing. If the lefties are also anti-fed I wasn't even aware of it, but I guess it makes sense. So-called free trade is also bull****. It's nothing more than some theoretical myth.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 05:02 AM |
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Sad to see both sides of the aisle turn to populism. It won't lead to anything good.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 10, 2010 03:28 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 15:28, 10 Nov 2010.
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mvass - Posting arrogant one-line "You are wrong" messages is not the way toward meaningful discussion. Regardless of whether or not you agree with Gootch's point of view, you should show him some respect and give him a well-reasoned response. Or give no response at all.
Frankly I'm saddened by how honor and integrity have evacuated this place. It's no wonder so many of the better posters no longer come here. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted November 10, 2010 06:08 PM |
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Quote:
Eisenhower warned Americans of the military industrial complex and we have ignored him.
Gootch you have made me challenge my horrible back this morning I said this very same thing. Americans should know this and also, they should have already read Washington's F.A.1796, focusing on the "warnings" alone and nothing else.
Quote:
Reenact Glass-Steagall. Get a president to enforce the Sherman act and start busting up these monopolies. This won't happen until we change the way political campaigns are financed. With the Supreme Court's ruling in the Citizens United case, we must take steps to move towards pure public financing of our elections. Otherwise, we will all be in the thrall of our multi-national corporations.
Agree completely. I even wrote a 'Voting Amendment' to address this issue, on the thought that "just complaining and nothing more makes me just part of the problem", but had no idea where to send it. Who could be trusted to run with such a change, that would cut their legs off as well? Instead of Americans footing the bill for an election in rediculous ways, we could pay for it up front and greatly narrow accountablity to the masses. The Internet is perfect for Party-platforms and many more than two, monitored by an "Elected Body". Cutting the dollar out, is the only way forward. <IMVHO>If this is never done?; elected officials will continue to serve the money and not the people. EoS
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"Do your own research"
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 10, 2010 06:48 PM |
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Corribus:
Yeah, I know. I just don't have enough free time to write a more complete response.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 11, 2010 03:53 AM |
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Quote:
No one of the rich people ever gave 50% of his income to charity because this would mean a 100% loss of his income, combined with the tax. At least that's how taxes are applied in Europe (70% max). What is the cap in USA?
There are rich people in the US who give 90% of their income to charity.
Donations to charity up to 50% of your adjusted income is tax deductable in the US and there are various other deductions. You have to be careful to maintain your receipts for charitalbe deductinos as your donations to charity rise because the IRS will certainly challenge you on it. Best to use a CPA, which a businessman certainly needs anyways to keep track of the every changing laws and regualtions.
The tax rate in the US also is not as high as the tax rate in Europe.
I also have a policy of not borrowing money. I don't buy anything until I can pay for it so no wasted money through paying interest payments. Having no debt means a great deal of financial freedom.
And hopefully the Tea Party will be able to help lower the tax obigatinos for everyone. But I think that may no happen until after 2012 when conservatives have control of Congress and the presidency.
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted November 11, 2010 10:51 PM |
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Quote:
There are rich people in the US who give 90% of their income to charity.
Link?
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This thread is pages long: 
