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| Thread: the disparity of wealth |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · NEXT» |
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bixie
Promising
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my common sense is tingling!
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posted October 24, 2010 10:42 PM |
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the disparity of wealth
"OMFG, U IS COMMIE SCUMBAG!!!"
no, imaginary troll, the subject I want to talk about is after watching a little program that made me rage so hard I punched a whole in reality.
I have a strange like-hate relationship with the program of "My Sweet 16". I like it because it gives me an excuse to sit with a bottle of wine and a small jar of olives and yell at the TV for everyone on there being a posh snow, and I hate it for a great many others. quite apart form the fact the program is utter garbage and every person on there is more unlikeable than a sack full of terrorists, herpes and bankers, my main problem I have with it is the absolutely massive disparity of wealth within it.
GOOD GOD-of-which-i-do-not-personally-believe-in-but-you-are-more-than-welcome-to, one girl spent £28,000 on a watch. £28,000!!! That's more than my entire uni expenses with my bank balance thrown in. I know people who would kill for that money. Hell, I would kill for that money. and she spent it on a watch?!!! And she was British, as well. I would have thought that our worst&richest would have some allergic reaction to frivolous spending.
It's even worse with some of the across the pond ones. One closeted flesh waste got a brand spanking new lexus, A NEW LEXUS (I wasn't allowed to drive at 16, and she gets that!!!!), and she throws a hissy fit because she didn't get it on the day of the party!!!!!!
there is a serious point I am making here under all this outrage at spoilt kids, opulant pointless parties and bat credit cards. Is it really fair that these kids are allowed to have this stuff, whilst there is about 10,000 other kids in their own country who can't even get much more than a bottle of beer. I remember what I got for my 16th birthday, and that was a Wii, which I bought with my own money, (I had about £60 quid of spending money, the rest I had saved up in a part time job, and it came four months late.) Baring in mind, these kids didn't earn any of this, This is all just mummy and daddy giving it to them.
What's staggering is that these people are going to be the richest people on the planet in the future. these spoilt brats who can't even cook pasta are going to run the world, control media, buy the shares. and with the gap between rich and poor growing year on year, they are going to be rolling in it whilst we are rolling in feces for warmth.
in short, the human race is doomed.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2010 11:04 PM |
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Actually, the amount of inherited wealth is severely exaggerated. Studies back this up.
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Eccentric Opinion
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 24, 2010 11:22 PM |
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I promise you, probably less than 1% of all kids spend that much on a watch.
Though I don't mind that some people are rich (unless they didn't work for it, at all).
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted October 25, 2010 06:00 AM |
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The next time you are tempted to whine about how unfair it is that you didn't inherit a fortune, think about all the children who inherit neuroblastomas or leukemia.
You can always work hard an earn your own fortune. Kids who get cancer don't have a chance.
Food for thought.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 25, 2010 08:04 AM |
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On the other hand there are 5.000.000 kids starving to death each year around the world, and that has nothing to do with inheriting cancer, but inheriting poverty
As with everything there is a limit as to what is acceptable. If everything is fine and dandy, it should be ok, to go and visit a starved-out area for Rolex-and-Lexus kids and watch two minutes, seeing a score of starved-out kids die, wash it off, and be pleased about how lucky they themselves are.
It's not the kids who are at fault, though. It's their parents.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted October 25, 2010 09:04 AM |
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You could just let the starving kids die like they're supposed to. Or you can feed them so they grow up just like their parents and have even more starving kids. That just makes matters worse. It's the way of nature to control the population.
Don't forget that if some rich person bought an expensive watch then somebody received that money. Several people split the 28K and the lady only got a stupid watch. It sounds to me like the people who recieved the money got a far better deal. Seriously, would you rather have a watch or 28K? Which side of that transaction would you rather be on?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 25, 2010 10:20 AM |
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That's not the point.
The point is, that if the kids of rich parents are pampered with the lifestyle of their parents, it's feudalism revisited - they are "something better" because of their heritage or blood - their parents - and are basically "money nobility"; they don't enjoy what they do because of their own achievements, but because of their "birthright".
Now, if you raise kids like they are princes, it's clear that they will behave like them.
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It's the way of nature to control the population.
With all due respect - that's social-darwinistic snow. If humans would let nature its way, we would have no medicine, no hospitals and no elderly care and would still bash each other's skull in with a wooden club.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted October 25, 2010 10:29 AM |
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Quote:
there is a serious point I am making here under all this outrage at spoilt kids, opulant pointless parties and bat credit cards. Is it really fair that these kids are allowed to have this stuff, whilst there is about 10,000 other kids in their own country who can't even get much more than a bottle of beer.
Yes, it is fair that parents should be allowed to spend their money on their kids.
I see no reason to be outraged that some kids are "born rich." The parents (or someone along the line) earned the money and they are entitled to spend their money as they wish.
I think that being outraged that some people are "born rich" is like being outraged that some people are born with natural atheletic talent or with a penchant for music or other talents.
Rather than just being envious of what other have there is the option of working more hours, starting your own business, learning about investing, training for a carreer that pays more, ect.
What is not fair is to say that the government should take money from a person simply because that person has accumulated more wealth than the "average" citizen.
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Doomforge
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Retired Hero
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posted October 25, 2010 11:57 AM |
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Rather than just being envious of what other have there is the option of working more hours
lmfao
Sure, work 80 hours per week. See nothing but work, traffic jams and bed. Reduce your life to an amoeba-like existence that eats, sleeps and WORKS and earn what, 400 dollars more? And where will you get the time AND willingness to spend it if you barely see the sun each day?
Way to go Elodin. Advocate more heart failures due to overwork, more people that do nothing but work, more workaholics without soul. Good job.
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starting your own business
It requires a lot of money to start your own business. And a great idea, too, if you want it to work. And luck to be better than everyone else that also happened to get the same idea. It requires the same talent as athletics and singing you mentioned. For most people it's a no-no.
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learning about investing
You need to have something to invest with. Something = a lot of money. Great tips Elodin, "you can make a lot of money if you have a lot of money in the first place". Thanks captain obvious.
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training for a carreer that pays more, ect.
Pretty laughable if you ask me. "training"? We are born with specific talents. If you're not brilliant and talented enough, you will make a horrible lawyer that will struggle for a living, for instance. Trying for a good job doesn't mean you will even get any benefits. If you're not suited for it, you won't.
Simple example: My friend finished studying law and can't seem to make any money. He's working as a lawyer but he's earnings are average and his CVs are ignored despite him having really good CV. He can't find a better job and he already works at his max.
Guess how much he earns.
After all those years spent on books living in poverty while others were already working and getting money, he earns magical 800$.
A side note: my other friend that is a welder got lucky and got picked up by his friend for a welding company. He earns 1500$ without any years spent on college and all that stuff.
In other words, you can train as much as you like: if you're not gifted to be brilliant, you will be just an average Joe as
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What is not fair is to say that the government should take money from a person simply because that person has accumulated more wealth than the "average" citizen.
What is not fair is being born with no legs, deadly ill or in poverty. All of those are just unfortunate events and are barely 'fair' when you're born to starve in poverty while your neighbor's son spends 20000$ on a watch cause daddy gave him that. It's as not fair as being born crippled with your brother being an athlete. Only in your cruel world this can be "fair". But you're Elodin, so no big surprise.
Bixie: life's not fair, live with it 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 25, 2010 12:18 PM |
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Not to mention that most really wealthy, and I am not talking about 'rich', I am talking about wealthy..either have inherited it (ie they themselves didn't earn a dime), or got so by other people's work. Now there are exceptions, like Bill Gates, but if you believe some tales..even that is not an exception. That is a tale for a different day however.
Hard work doesn't always mean success. Tell the people who worked 16 hrs a day in coal mines that if they worked more they would be more successful. They worked hard, but because somebody else got the 'luck' to own the land..they got paid pennies while that one person made millions. All the workers got were broken bodies, illnesses, and a meager existence.
I mean heck almost 50% of the wealth of this nation is owned by 10% of it's population. Unless you get really lucky, or are born into wealth, you are not going anywhere. Education? There are people with a Masters Degree who are working at McDonalds because there is no work for them otherwise.
Sure, I am 10x better off then my parents were financially. Got a pretty much useless back and other problems for my troubles as well. Ideas? I got a thousand of them, and they would work too..real potential to make a lot of money..but guess what..no money to start the process. No chance of getting the money from a loan, even with decent credit because (surprise, surprise) I don't have any collateral.
No excuses, just don't want to give the ideas away so somebody else can make a ton of money..and MAYBE if I am lucky I'd get a little myself. Even IF I could get the business loan.
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Doomforge
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posted October 25, 2010 12:26 PM |
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Mytical: 
Oh and as for the topic itself: life ain't fair in every account. There are ugly people, stupid people, sick people, poor people. People born without any talents at all, people prone to depression and paranoia... weak people, cowardly people, and so on. Everything is so random. If we wanted true equality, after removing the injustice of rich spoiled brats' existence, we'd have to do something about other things.. how to make people equally attractive, equally smart? It's not possible, nor it would be desirable. A true equality would mean a world of clones, a pretty sad sight if you ask me.
So, where's the limit to what we CAN change in nature's default "true randomness" in every possible factor? We will always bump into "he got that for free" problem. If it's not "he got 500000$ from his daddy as a kid", then it will be "she was born with pretty face and round butt and hence she's a model and earns 100x more than I do despite she did nothing and I'm working my butt all my life" instead...
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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JollyJoker
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posted October 25, 2010 12:39 PM |
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Quote:
What is not fair is being born with no legs, deadly ill or in poverty. All of those are just unfortunate events and are barely 'fair' when you're born to starve in poverty while your neighbor's son spends 20000$ on a watch cause daddy gave him that. It's as not fair as being born crippled with your brother being an athlete.
But is that really right?
IMO, if you are born "crippled", that's neither fair nor unfair - it's just bad luck with no one responsible. It's comparable to getting ill and dying when, say, 25, instead of living to 80 or something. But do you see what that is amounting to?
HUMANS STRIVE TO CHANGE THIS! If you are indeed becoming ill, you will be helped as best as humans can. Decades (and longer) ago you'd have died from a heart failure with 40 - now you may be lucky and live another 30 years or so.
The same thing is true for genetic defects - the stuff you are born with. People are on the way to be able to change the fate of these people, altering their gene defects.
Now compare that with the "unfairness" of being born as a child of parents so poor, the child will starve to death. How about calling this "unfair", simply because it would so easily be possible to change that - a little money would be enough, a little help, and the money d the food is obviously available - but not the help.
That seems a bit... incongruent.
In feudalism, what often happened was, that a really able nobleman did well and made his country prosper, while his heirs and successors were incompetent and wasted everything away - one of the reasons why hereditary absolute monarchies were scrapped.
The same thing you can observe in economy: family businesses often have been ruined by sons and daughters - public companies, with a majority of the shares being held publicly and paid CEOs do the work do better.
Clearly, getting too much shoved in the behind isn't all too good for the development of children, the desire of their parents notwithstanding to drown their children with "good stuff".
This is an area where a lot of bad things have their origins in.
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Doomforge
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posted October 25, 2010 12:48 PM |
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Well, I think whether we can finger a person responsible for an unfortunate event or not, it is still "unfair". But again, life is everything but fair. Getting cancer in the age of 25 is also unfair, as you did nothing to deserve it. Getting born in a family so poor you die after 5 years of struggling with hunger each day is also not fair.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Mytical
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Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted October 25, 2010 01:11 PM |
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Momentary off topic here. That is the same with censorship though, to be 'fair' if you censor even one thing, then nobody should be allowed to say anything. We'd be a world of mimes. Because somebody is going to disagree with what somebody else says .. somewhere.
Back on topic. Yes, life is not fair. I don't mind not having all the latest/greatest things..or a life of leisure (I'd be nuts in a week). I've worked hard, and I've hardly worked. Life is what you make of it sometimes.
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JollyJoker
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posted October 25, 2010 01:19 PM |
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No, I don't think you understand what I mean.
Being poor is no "natural desaster". With "natural desasters" one way or another humans trie to help or solve the problems of those who have bad luck, whether that desaster is an earthquake or an illness or a genetic defect or even a famine.
However, POVERTY, which is by no means a natural desaster, but something that is connected with the general amount of wealth - the poverty of many is the wealth of some.
So people STRIVE to lessen the "unfair" things, the natural desasters - but nothing else.
People will help the victims of a famine - bad luck -, but not those who starve to death because they are born too poor to survive.
And THAT is what seems to be indeed unfair.
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Mytical
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posted October 25, 2010 01:27 PM |
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*nods* It's because of the "Well if they were hungry enough.." crowd that this is so. You know, because despite them living in horrible conditions..they could do 'x', 'y', or 'z' to make things better for themselves.
The ones who have all the money and power, have no reason to want to help..unless it is to sooth their conscious. Instead they would rather make sweat shops that no person should be forced to work in..
Now..here goes.."They could get another job.." except all the available jobs are just as bad..or worse. You can quit jobs to find better till your blue and purple in the face..but all that does is make sure your family starves. Good choices there. Bah..getting into 'fratching' territory. Will leave it be for now.
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Doomforge
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posted October 25, 2010 01:32 PM |
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Shh, Elodin will soon come to tell you he doesn't want to get robbed by government since he prefers to give the money willingly.
I'm really not in position to tell people how to live and what to do with their money - it's their business. however, when someone sees a rich spoiled brat being funded a watch worth 20000$ and then a starving kid and says "it's perfectly fair, well, starving kid, you know what? you can work hard and get a good job!"... it's just cruel.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Elodin
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posted October 25, 2010 02:22 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 14:44, 25 Oct 2010.
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Only in your cruel world this can be "fair". But you're Elodin, so no big surprise.
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Shh, Elodin will soon come to tell you he doesn't want to get robbed by government since he prefers to give the money willingly
Perhaps you could try to keep snide remarks about community members out of your comments unless everyone is going to be allowed to make snide remarks about other members.
The world is not a cruel world. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in different areas. We can whine, cry, or raise our fists to the sky and curse God because our life is not perfect or we can work to change the circumstances that can be changed and make the best of what can't be changed.
Yes, you are right that I don't want the government to rob me. I gave over 50% of my income to charity WILLINGLY. Something I'm not aware of ANY Marxist doing. The Marxists who advocate wealth distribution but who keep more than what they need to live off of would seem to me to be living a hypocritical life. To my knowledge no politician who espouses wealth distribution either in America or anywhere else redistributes his own wealth and keeps only "according to his need."
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Way to go Elodin. Advocate more heart failures due to overwork, more people that do nothing but work, more workaholics without soul. Good job.
Your entire post seems to be nothing but personal comments about me and complaints that money does not grow on trees. Yes, you WILL have to WORK to earn more money.
No, I don't recommend that anyone have a heart attack, just that they get their heart right and work to EARN more money if they want more money, rather than stealing the money others have earned.
I was born into poverty but did not wish to remain poor. So rather than cry about it or steal from others I chose to work several jobs at once and saved enough to start my own business. Now I am fairly well off. I am currently working long hours to expand my business. And yes, I don't think it is right for the government to steal what I work for to give to those who want what I have earned. And I don't think it is right for the government to steal what I give to my childen.
Does someone want more money? Rather than crying about not having as much as he wants he should work for it.
Clicky
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted October 25, 2010 05:19 PM |
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@Mytical
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Not to mention that most really wealthy, and I am not talking about 'rich', I am talking about wealthy..either have inherited it (ie they themselves didn't earn a dime), or got so by other people's work.
I assume you have some facts or studies to back up this statement. Or are you just speaking about your biased perceptions of reality?
As for needing lot of money to make lots of money through investments: another misconception. Making lots of money through investments takes time, research and intelligence. But it doesn't take a lot of initial investment if you start early and make smart choices. When you're in your early twenties, think about all the money you blow on stuff you don't really need. Alcohol. Cable television. Movies. Whatever. If you start early and put even 5% of your monthly "luxury" spending away into simple investments like mutual funds, stocks or even CD accounts, within a few years you'd have a nice chunk of change waiting for you. Investing doesn't usually pay dividends overnight and you don't need lots of money to make lots of money. Probably two of the biggest money misconceptions that are out there and also probably one of the biggeset reasons people foolishly don't invest - because they think investing $20 dollars here and $50 dollars there won't amount to anything.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted October 25, 2010 06:06 PM |
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The world is not a cruel world. We are all born with advantages and disadvantages in different areas. We can whine, cry, or raise our fists to the sky and curse God because our life is not perfect or we can work to change the circumstances that can be changed and make the best of what can't be changed.
Only a few people can actually do anything in this world.
Currently 1/6 people in the world are living in the slums, it does not matter their ability, in reality they got no chance of actually getting anywhere by themselves.
There are unparralelable geniouses among them, they might get a chance by someone else if detected. They will likely not get detected, and they will never get the chance of using their potential. Even if they are detected, they might never get a shoot at something simple as a scholarship.
So in reality: They are snowed, regardless of how hard they work. At the best they could work themself apart and maybe get the situation barely better for the next generation, but that won't really happen.
If they get outside help: They might stand a chance, of the project is correctly set up. Otherwise nothing will change.
Hard work itself is worth nothing unless the oppertunity for it to profit is present, so hard work is useless. Just by striking at the oppertunity you earn about the same as what hard work would have earned you regardless.
Just being able to earn enough to move to a better place, where you can gain a better job is a oppertunity, which quite a large amount of hardworking geniouses never will get.
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