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| Thread: Is intelligence based on the ability to convey expressions / grammer? | |
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 16, 2010 12:27 AM |
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Is intelligence based on the ability to convey expressions / grammer?
hi I was just over there reading about avatars and stuff then I wondered how much value people hold in correct punctuation, context, and grammar when developing personal opinions about other individuals general intelligence.
I personally have quite often been accepting, immediately, of people who do not convey 'the message' they intend to regardless of how in line it falls within some scale of predetermined language.
I do not only reject the necessity to base someones intelligence on this, but also their general overall personalities. In fact I find my self more more apt to accepting them as people when they have a confidence and peace about not speaking to me/others with some feeling of needing to be precise..
anyways, what is your opinion on this? Do you make automatic assumptions when people simply do not communicate in some sort of communal based norm?
____________
What are you up to
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 16, 2010 12:36 AM |
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People with higher education use different kind of language than your everyday rednecks.
That's where the sophisticated comes from.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 16, 2010 12:52 AM |
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as intelligent as I ever will or will not be I don't think I can be so closed minded to the message for only a reason such as they think more about stuff versus how to sound smart.
I rely on something I believe is not greater than higher education but it surely defeats the limits of it. - Intuition..
not to sound offensive, I think a flaw rests primarily on those who are incapable of understanding others only because they are dependent on predefined communicational systems.
____________
What are you up to
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 16, 2010 12:55 AM |
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 16, 2010 01:06 AM |
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Quote:
Is intelligence based on the ability to convey expressions / grammer?
Well, I certainly hope not.
For your own sake. 
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted November 16, 2010 01:08 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 01:11, 16 Nov 2010.
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More intelligent people have better writing skills. This extends not only to sentence structure but also prose organization. People with good writing skills are more effective of getting across an important point and, thus, are more likely to be engaging in meaningful discussion.
That said.
I know plenty of intelligent people that couldn't write a decent classified ad. Good writing is not an easy skill to learn, nor is it an easy skill to teach. Most people are not good writers.
In addition, I understand that a good portion of the people here are not native English speakers, so it is really not fair to judge their intelligence by their writing skills. In fact, I have to say that I'm consistently impressed by the writing skills (at least, when it comes to forming coherent sentences) I see here considering the international crowd.
Finally, it is wrong to overlook what someone is saying just because they cannot convey their thoughts well. I strive to understand all posts, both those that are written well and those that aren't. Well, all posts except those posted by people who have demonstrated consistently that they have nothing interesting to say.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 16, 2010 03:41 AM |
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Not all intelligent people write coherently and cohesively, but all coherent and cohesive writers are intelligent.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted November 16, 2010 03:51 AM |
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I agree with Corribus; on a forum like this, where many of the regular posters do not speak English as a first language, it's quite difficult to judge people based on their writing ability. Generally, in real life, I would tend to associate better writing skills with greater intelligence. Whether that's fair or not, I can't say, but I do it nonetheless.
It's quite problematic to apply in an online context though. If someone's a native English speaker and posts incoherently, that says to me that they either simply don't know what they are doing or can't be bothered to make a readable post, and so I might judge them negatively for that. However, I don't apply that principle to anyone who does not speak English natively; I know how bad I am at French.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 16, 2010 05:40 AM |
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Quote:
Not all intelligent people write coherently and cohesively, but all coherent and cohesive writers are intelligent.
perhaps if such coherent put their minds to it they would-- but however,-, formulaic innovations and inventions themselves do not rely on what you say is dependent to have true intellect.
anyways i certainly pose not to enforce or hold some bearing of hostility
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted November 16, 2010 05:57 AM |
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Quote:
People with good writing skills are more effective of getting across an important point and, thus, are more likely to be engaging in meaningful discussion.[/said corribus]
Cel": aggreed
[cor says]
In addition, I understand that a good portion of the people here are not native English speakers, so it is really not fair to judge their intelligence by their writing skills. [/said cor]
Cel:"
absolutely, i don't really know if anyone can dispute that the placement in situational teaching or infarct giving a damn about the language another language speaker uses should determine potential access to any piece of actual knowledge
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 16, 2010 07:13 AM |
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There are a lot of different types of intelligence and the ability to effectively communicate is just one of them.
Both written and verbal communication are things that you need to work at. That's true for even the most intelligent people. I'm sure there is some natural talent, but it still requires practice.
One thing about language is that it uses both left and right brain. When you write you are constantly switching between the two. So basically you are multi-tasking between two very different things. You have a creative process combined with a structured language.
What I think Celf is really asking about is how we judge the intelligence of others based on their language skills. I admit it can have an influence on how I view others. Good organized language skills reflect organized thought in general. I'm not sure if organized thought is intelligence itself, but it's more like the application of intelligence. The highest intelligence doesn't do much good without the ability to organize it and apply it.
On the other hand I don't place nearly as much importance on intelligence as most people. Good language skills give me a positive view of a person's intelligence, but poor language skills don't give me a negative view. I really don't care how intelligent or educated someone is.
On the third hand, on forums and email I lose a certain amount of respect for people who obviously don't care or bother to proof-read or use spell checkers. That has nothing to do with intelligence, it's just plain laziness and it's disrespectful of the people who try to read it. It basically says that the writer doesn't care about the reader.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 16, 2010 01:25 PM |
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Let's not forget language barrier.
I might construct more or less decent sentences in English, but in Polish, I'm trillion times better, obviously. 
But in native language? Well, there is some truth in it. However, even very intelligent posters tend to use demagogy and arguments ad personam in their opinions.
Imho, what defines intelligent poster is:
Being good in heuristics - It's important to be able to construct logically correct structures, combine them and draw conclusions from them.
Avoiding generalizing of every sort - It's stupid with both maths and "common logic". A common example: Someone's been beaten by a cop. And then again, by a different one. And again later. He starts to dislike "The Police" in general and says "all of them are the same, believe me I know, they have beaten me XYZ times". It's still stupid because those three oficers that beat him are still like what, 0.001% of the whole Police department in the country? 0.01%? The number is too small to make it a basis of any representative sample. Corribus may explain it better, I kinda suck at describing anything mathematically in English >< ESPECIALLY distributions, confidence interval and such.
Avoiding various demagogic techniques. I want to write an art about those, it would greatly benefit the OSM I guess, and I will, too  just give me some time. You will be amazed how many of those you use in every discussion
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted November 16, 2010 02:37 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 14:48, 16 Nov 2010.
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Quote:
In fact I find my self more more apt to accepting them as people when they have a confidence and peace about not speaking to me/others with some feeling of needing to be precise..
Is that not an assumption though? I have every need to be precise due to my desire to "write by the rules" a more recent development as a writer and also the discovery of some built-in errors. I.e. For many years I would use 'your' instead of you're. Not a clue why, other than just using the equilvant sound as an equal...as it is.
Quote:
anyways, what is your opinion on this? Do you make automatic assumptions when people simply do not communicate in some sort of communal based norm?
I am very critical of myself but not of others. This has increased much over my years, greatly enhanced by the highly technical term brain-farts...which now cause me to reverse keystrokes or skip a vowel.
@Binibik About spell-checkers: There is another issue. In my case I feel I have a need to do this myself or "lose the game". Everyone has probably heard that word games may ward off mind-problems to some positive effect, so I am respecting that possiblity that it is true. "Working-out" with the brain instead of the body.
Edit= clarified topic to Bin
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2010 06:09 PM |
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being able to communicate is only a small part of the intelligence.
and it is limited, some ideas are very hard to communicate with the words we have.
words can also give a false idea of things.
like we say here are 2 trees, as if they were the same thing whereas they are different from each other. but the word is the same for both.
or this man is a muslim, and this word "muslim" becomes for us, all what that man is.
That's what we call labeling, by using a single word, we get the impression we know all there is to know about a thing or a person.
there are also words which don't have a very clear signification and people will interpret them, based on theirs beliefs and experiences. love is one of the most obvious examples.
many people also gives the impression to be clever and good at communication because they can react quickly to almost anything with ready made answers with which almost everyone agrees.
it is likely that many people can't spot it because they communicate the same way, and many people will also avoid embarassing questions, making them easily fooled.
the problem, if you try to know what the other one really thinks, you may be judged distrustful or intrusive. common example are couples avoiding touchy subjects.
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