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| Thread: Lets talk about magic... | |
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whiterider
Known Hero
death walks with me
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posted January 09, 2011 02:25 PM |
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Lets talk about magic...
It was said there will be 7 magical schools - 4 elemental, light, dark and primeordeal
Me thinks this is too plain and there is much more inteligent way to diverse the spell schools like homm4 did.
Here is one way to compile elemental and aligement spells:
In homm4 we have:
Nature
Life
Order
Death
Chaos
The logic here is pretty obvious:
Life is connected to Nature and Order
Nature is inbetween Life and Chaos
Chaos is born when there is Nature and Death
Death is in the same time Chaos and Order
Order is the balance between Life and Death
We can add the elemental spells to all of these aligments:
Nature - Water and Earth (elves)
Chaos - Fire and Air (dungeon)
Order - Water and Air (academy)
Life - Light spells (haven)
Death - Dark spells (necropolis)
We can invite sub-aligments as well
Life + Order = Light (sanctuary aka nagas)
Life + Nature = Harmony (dwarves, good fortress, new faction you name it)
Order + Death = Shadow (faceless)
Death + Chaos = Destruction (inferno)
Chaos + Nature = Night (or Night Breed faction like werewolves and witchers)
In the center is Might - Stronghold with access to low level spells from chosen school.
Nature is for summoning spells as well Ice and Earth offensive spells
Chaos is for destruction spells, buffs and Fire and Air offensive spells
Death is for debuff and raising spells
Life is for buff and blessing spells
Order is for mind and illusion spells
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 09:26 PM |
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Nah, IMO H5 had the most intelligent system, apart from Light, which really ought to have lost about half its spells to other schools.
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MarceS
Hired Hero
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posted January 10, 2011 02:04 PM |
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I think i posted such thing before H5 came, and I still think it.
The wide variety of spells in H4 was the best of the series if we talk about magic. Tough the Spell sistem of H5 was quite good.
If we think a bit about the sistem announced to H6 is just the upgrade of the H5 sistem. Tought dividing destructive magic into 4 separate classes gives them some extra work. Each skool should have at least 2, but 3-4 spells would be optimal per level. If we count each elemental class had only max 3 spells total, thats far not enough. The other part of it, that some of the spells should have some extra debuffish effect (like deepfreez in H5).
Actually the ting i am most curious about is the primordial spell class. Think it will be a bit similar to Summoning scool of H5.
A question in the end: Do we know anything of the wich scools each faction can really learn, and how many spell levels will we get?
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Hope dies the last time, but we have
the might to crush that as well.
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted January 10, 2011 09:57 PM |
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My guess? I loved the h4 spell system, ripping the most cleverly designed magic system and integrating it into heroes was good. But i'm betting primordial will be universal spells. like adventure magic. basic spells too basic to go into a specific school. Like magic missile or summon boat.
What i do like is that there are more schools than factions, which tickles my fancy.it makes the hero development seem larger than it is. My biggest gripe with h5 is that if you were haven, going for a destruction knight was hard because you had to get the other spells yourself. Granted there were only a few worthwhile spells so it balanced out, but i didn't like that it was hard to build my hero, my way.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 10, 2011 10:54 PM |
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I wonder if it will indeed just be that Destructive Magic has been split into 4 elemental schools - in that case it will be sort of 'meh' with regard to 4 schools doing what 1 did before.
On the other hand, I really liked the H5 spell system, because it - pretty succesfully - divided different schools of magic into each having a unique area of effect that did not (to larger degree) overlap with the other schools. That ment one school did not exclude any other in terms of use - unlike for instance Heroes 3 magic system. So maybe it's not too bad if H6 system caries over from it - even if I think 4 plain destructive schools will be a bit much.
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What will happen now?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted January 10, 2011 11:28 PM |
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my problem with the idea of 4 schools of destruction is that the six elements correspond to the six elemental dragons. it wouldn't be balanced flavorwise imo to say that only elrath and malassa get buffs and such.
I think the correspondence from the dragons suggests a more elemental approach to the spells. ala homm 3.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted January 10, 2011 11:38 PM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 23:48, 10 Jan 2011.
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I hope they have a similar system to what they had in H5. However They should remove the boundaries at least some. For example in H5 they had:
Light: Buffs
Dark: Curses & Debuffs
Destructive: Damage Spells
Summoning: Summoning and whatnot
Now that they will have 7 schools, I want them to have specific characteristics but within these there could all kind of spells, mostly of the ones that the school specializes in. For example If you are a master of fire magic, you mostly have damage spells, but also access to other spells like Fire Elemental, Dragon Breath and Flame Strike.
And similar for all the other schools, Dark have mostly curses but also damage dealing spells and some buffs.
Light mostly buffs, but also summoning, damage and debuffs.
etc, etc....
But it still remain to see how these schools will work, since you don't learn skill like you used to do...
I wonder if there will be a skill tree or something. If so you might not need to invest so much in a single school as you did in H5.(since there where 4 of them there and 7 of them in H6.)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 11, 2011 12:03 AM |
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I hope H6s system makes sense, H5s did.
I just hope that Air, Earth etc will all cover unique areas and not just be copy of each others and all hybrids between destructive and summoning magic from H5.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Lichking012
Known Hero
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posted January 11, 2011 12:30 AM |
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Well summoning is gone too. So I think at the very least that we are going to get a summon X elemental spell in each school. I'm really really really really really curious about the whole level system and heroes development system. I think dark will still mostly do curses, light mostly boosts, but other than that, It gets a bit more tricky, Fire will likely still be mostly destructive, but I could see spells like blind reappearing in that school. Water could be an interesting balance with spells like circle of winter, but also some healing spells, not necessarily stat boosting though. I see earth as a school that primarily has battle effects, like earthquake, summoning some sort of earth/plant wall, causing "muddy terrain which slows movement for walkers. Air is a bit trickier, possibly spells like haste, giving units the ability to fly, etc.
I also think that we may see a return of more conventional adventure map spells, Town portal as earth, dimension door, water walk, fly, summon creatures.
One things for sure though. I want my vampirism spell back. Ghost dragons wit vampirism rock. They do enough damage to summon most damage done and don't have the disadvantage of havin their HP lowered so they don't loss any of their base HP.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 11, 2011 07:16 AM |
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Quote:
Well summoning is gone too. So I think at the very least that we are going to get a summon X elemental spell in each school. I'm really really really really really curious about the whole level system and heroes development system. I think dark will still mostly do curses, light mostly boosts, but other than that, It gets a bit more tricky, Fire will likely still be mostly destructive, but I could see spells like blind reappearing in that school. Water could be an interesting balance with spells like circle of winter, but also some healing spells, not necessarily stat boosting though. I see earth as a school that primarily has battle effects, like earthquake, summoning some sort of earth/plant wall, causing "muddy terrain which slows movement for walkers. Air is a bit trickier, possibly spells like haste, giving units the ability to fly, etc.
Ok what you just said is that you can imagine them copy Heroes 3 spell system down to minute details? 
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What will happen now?
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Lichking012
Known Hero
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posted January 11, 2011 08:10 AM |
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what i mean is that they can refine the separation that was in H3. There was nothing wrong with the H3 system. It was just unbalanced. air and earth magic rained supreme, not to say there weren't some benefits to say fire or water, but 9/10 the other two where superior. Mass haste, Mass slow, implosion, chain lightning, As long as each school is just as valuable I don't have an issue with a similar system. Even heroes 5, with its more logical system defied its preset perimeters to a degree. Whats up with Curse of the Netherworld? Fist of Wraith? Divine Vengeance? Firewall (in ToTe)? Word of light? Plus especially destructive, and to a lesser degree summoning (unless you were necropolis anyway) weren't very useful late game, light and dark reigned supreme
What need to happen is balanced spell schools.
Summoning should be just as useful late game as the other schools.
By dividing thematically, each school is able to fulfill a variety of niches for a hero and therefore each school is equally valuable. Fire can be used not just destroy but impair, giving more options within an individual school.
On a side note however, I changed my mind on adventure map spells, I prefer the way they were done in H5. It allowed spell schools to focus on in battle benefits. I just wish that there were some more adventure spells, how about a return of view earth for example.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 11, 2011 05:12 PM |
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Quote:
What need to happen is balanced spell schools.
There is no such thing as perfect balance between two schools that cover the same area. One will always end out as being better than the other.
That's not saying that having schools do different things is a guarantee for balance, because it's not, but at least you'll be sure that one does something the other can't.
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What will happen now?
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Meherunes
Adventuring Hero
Daedra Summoner
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posted January 11, 2011 06:15 PM |
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No, I don't think Blind should go in fire. Frenzy could go in fire because of the chaos side to it. But imo Blind must be dark magic. Also, maybe fire could have some healing spells?
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