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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Size and movement
Thread: Size and movement
vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted January 17, 2011 10:26 PM

Size and movement

There are 3 things that are too simple in the heroes series )in my eyes) For now creatures can be: normal and big (1 or 4 squares) they can be melle, flyer, ranger and caster. Even there is no difference between a flyer and a teleporter (I think).
I sugest things to be more like this:

Size
For now I saw some strange things in H5. The hydra and the rider are the same size! The minotaur and the goblin both use 1 square. Can bear REALLY be as big as a friggin dragon?
I sugest sizes to be more like this: (Squares should be smaller)

Small (1 square): Goblins, Dwarves and pixies...

Medium (4 squares): human, scout, Brawler...

Large (9 squares):  Minotaur, Thane, Knight...

Giant (16 squares): Hydra, Black dragon...

Movement and types
Now we got: walker, flyer, ranger, caster and teleporter (is it different than a flyer in gameplay?) I think that there could be some more in it.

Walker: cant past trough obstacles and attacks in close combat

Flyer: can pass low and medium obstacles.

Ranger: atacks withaut moving their location.

Caster can use some spells.

Teleporter: can pass Low, medium nad High obstacles.

New ones:

Jumper: can only pass low obstacles.

Half-ranger: can only attack enemies if they are in theuir half of the area ( if the total area is 20 he can atack form 10 blocks away)

Magic ranger: uses a magical attack from range.

Magic melee: he attacks from close but has a magical attack.

Discuss this and provide another Ideas to be discussed.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 17, 2011 10:46 PM

Quote:
Jumper: can only pass low obstacles.

Half-ranger: can only attack enemies if they are in theuir half of the area ( if the total area is 20 he can atack form 10 blocks away)

Magic ranger: uses a magical attack from range.

Magic melee: he attacks from close but has a magical attack.

I like these, but the magic ranger/melee shouldn't it be to much of imo.
The sizes however I think is fine the way it is, sure it might not make sense. But from the game-play point of view it is still very good the way it is.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 17, 2011 11:43 PM
Edited by MattII at 23:46, 17 Jan 2011.

Those proposed sizes are too complex, apart from say a 3*3 creature I could live with what's there already. What I think might be interesting is a 1*2 (1 wide, 2 long) creature, and maybe a 2*1 (2 wide, 1 long). As for the movement types, only the half-ranger appeals to me, the rest can already be approximated in one way or another.

What I would like to see is different attack types, so instead of just melee/ranged you get:
Normal Melee/Ranged
Fire Melee/Ranged
Ice Melee/Ranged
Lightning Melee/Ranged
Magic Melee/Ranged

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 19, 2011 07:23 PM

Quote:
Those proposed sizes are too complex, apart from say a 3*3 creature I could live with what's there already. What I think might be interesting is a 1*2 (1 wide, 2 long) creature, and maybe a 2*1 (2 wide, 1 long). As for the movement types, only the half-ranger appeals to me, the rest can already be approximated in one way or another.

What I would like to see is different attack types, so instead of just melee/ranged you get:
Normal Melee/Ranged
Fire Melee/Ranged
Ice Melee/Ranged
Lightning Melee/Ranged
Magic Melee/Ranged

We're getting a little closer to this, what with magical and physical attack and defence. The main change will presumably be that now some creatures are better of attacking certain enemy targets; I think with five different types of damage it might get too difficult working out who to send where.
____________

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 19, 2011 09:24 PM

Well 80% of creatures would get normal damage, but Titans would do lightning damage and Succubi would do fire damage. Really though, it'd only effect how effective certain creatures would be against the 'Immune to X' and 'Magic Proof X%' abilities.

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted January 20, 2011 04:22 PM

Magic attacks meant: Light, Dark, Fire, Air, Earth and Water.
Not just a 'magic' attack. And still does anybody know if in previus Heroes games a teleporter was different than a flyer?

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 20, 2011 07:32 PM

My proposal plays by effect, not source, thus Light and Dark don't exist as damage types, and neither does Earth, it's taken up with Normal, Fire or Magic, depending on which spell you're talking about.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 20, 2011 08:35 PM

Really many people say that one can make up for the other but I don't really believe that. No ammount of movement is going to solve certain issues.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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vlaad
vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 20, 2011 08:39 PM

Quote:
And still does anybody know if in previus Heroes games a teleporter was different than a flyer?
In H4 you cannot use Vial of Binding Liquid against Devils. Not sure if H5's Stormwind works against Devils, but it shouldn't. Generally speaking, yeah, there should be a difference between a flyer and a teleporter; no matter how small the difference is, it adds depth and makes for some interesting choices.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 20, 2011 08:55 PM

Eventhough you make a valid point Vlaad the Devils in H5 are affected by Stormwind.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 20, 2011 09:02 PM

IMO, teleporters shouldn't be affected by movement altering spells and artefacts and such, because they don't actually walk or fly.

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 20, 2011 09:14 PM

They're still labeled as flyers in the game. Has it's upsides and it's downsides. This way they benefit from the Dragon Wing Mantel. But well...in the end it's a rather small issue considering the tiny ammount of teleporters we have. Only the Devils and the upgraded Vampires. So while you're also right I think it's bearable pain. But who knows maybe it'll be different in H6. Eventhough my guess is that we won't have any teleporters except the Vampires.
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted January 20, 2011 11:19 PM

Dont forget the Thane and his upgrades. If you forget them who knows what Kodial can do.
I still think teleporters should be better. Your point that they are so few also means they are some kind of Elite and should be more powerfull. I agrre about making them not affected by movement spells.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 21, 2011 01:47 AM

Quote:
Quote:
And still does anybody know if in previus Heroes games a teleporter was different than a flyer?
In H4 you cannot use Vial of Binding Liquid against Devils. Not sure if H5's Stormwind works against Devils, but it shouldn't. Generally speaking, yeah, there should be a difference between a flyer and a teleporter; no matter how small the difference is, it adds depth and makes for some interesting choices.


they were also much faster than flyers to enter a castle, during a siege. flyers lost one turn to just fly over the wall. devil had no penalty at all for movement.

do you think teleporters should be immune to binding abilities?

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vlaad
vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 21, 2011 01:56 AM
Edited by vlaad at 01:59, 21 Jan 2011.

I don't know, I guess so... But I agree with MattII that they should be immune to other movement altering spells and artifacts.

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