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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 [ This thread is 59 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ]
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 24, 2011 07:09 PM

US Presidential Race 2012

No reason not to start talking about it early.

I hereby start the discussion with a question: Should Trump run?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 25, 2011 04:39 AM

The idea Donald Trump might become president is abhorrent.

A guy who is a billionaire with very doubtful business practices? Does anyone think he would use his private wealth to help people or something? Or that his wealth and life style has made him an expert for the everyday problems of the average US citizen?

A guy who sued someone for 5 billion $, who claimed Trump was no billionaire but was worth only 250 millions?

A guy who started a private war against (the lesbian) Rosie O'Donnell (calling her a degenerate among other things), because she dared to critisize his handling of the Miss USA scandal in 2006, mentioning his marital affairs and questionable business practices?

What would he do as a PRESIDENT, if someone critisized him, his lifestyle, his governing or his looks?

You can't be serious.

The most important thing is, not to install a maniac or an unstable guy or someone who bathes too much in the glory as a president, avoiding the possibility of having a really bad president. The good things a president can do are much more limited, anyway, since constructively the president is too tied-up in the mire of governmental red tape. Destructively, however, he can do a lot of damage, just by screwing up enough things, talking nonsense, abusing the presidency for private purposes and so on.

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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted January 27, 2011 05:57 AM

If Paul ran, he'd soak up a huge amount of independants and conservaive Democrats and the party faithful (base) would have no choice but to vote for somebody who would actually make cuts.

I don't see anybody else having a chance of winning.

Palin would be a disaster, in fact, some people on the "Left" are trying to get her nominated in the Republican primary just so she loses. Sad.

Personally I wish third party candidates stood a better chance.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 27, 2011 09:27 AM

@JJ

Playing devil's advocate: given our current budget situation, might it not be wise to elect a successful businessman to run the country?  Perhaps it's time the US government is run like a business.  If you don't like Trump, what about (hypothetically speaking, of course) someone like Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs.  

On an unrelated topic, it will be interesting to see what the tea party does to the 2012 election.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted January 27, 2011 09:58 AM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 09:58, 27 Jan 2011.

I have no faith in the government's ability to fix anything anymore.  Democrats, Republicans, Tea Partiers; to Hell with the lot of them.
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Keksimaton
Keksimaton


Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
posted January 27, 2011 10:20 AM

I'll be quite content with anyone who is not anti-Finland.


Shyranis: Paul McCartney can't run, he's not born in the United States.
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 27, 2011 11:41 AM

A successfull businessman is far form being a political leader in my eyes.

You do not need much moral standards to be successfull in business, neither do you need a majority for your decisions. Exactly the reasons why guys like Trump made big business.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted January 27, 2011 12:08 PM

Quote:
You do not need much moral standards to be successfull in business, neither do you need a majority for your decisions. Exactly the reasons why guys like Trump made big business.

Since when did politicians have "moral standards"?

Put it this way: most politicians are (or were) lawyers.  No offense meant to O_D, but do you think lawyers really have any better "moral standards" than businessmen?  At the very least, if a businessman was in the oval office, he might actually be able to get our budget under control.

I'm not saying Trump is the answer, but I'd actually consider very seriously voting for a successful businessman to run our country.

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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Legendary Hero
Libertarian Mafia
posted January 27, 2011 01:00 PM
Edited by xerox at 13:02, 27 Jan 2011.

I do not get the US.

They have like the most expensive yet one of the worst healtcare services in the whole western world. I do not even consider the US a western country when it comes to healthcare.

And then Obama sees this and wants to change it and the republicans vote it down? Why? The healthcare there obviously needs to be radically changed.

I think wellfare is the most important thing in the society but for some reason, it does not seem like a priority in the US.

In some countries, we get free state-financed healthcare. ATLEAST for children and people under 18.

Anyway, there are only two choices in the US (which I think is super boring, in sweden there are 8 political parties in our parliment and they all focus on different things) sooooooooooo I guess if I was an USian than I would vote on the Democrats because to me, the Republicans just seem insane, mad and crazy religious fanatics who just oppose the democrats in every single question even if it helps the country.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 27, 2011 01:32 PM

It's true that US health care is extremely expensive, but the quality of care is usually great. (At least, the medical procedures are.) The US also leads the world in medical research.

I don't have much hopes of any good candidate winning. Any necessary reforms would be extremely unpopular, so no one will advocate them.
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Raelag84
Raelag84


Known Hero
posted January 28, 2011 08:10 AM
Edited by Raelag84 at 08:11, 28 Jan 2011.

Quote:
It's true that US health care is extremely expensive, but the quality of care is usually great. (At least, the medical procedures are.) The US also leads the world in medical research.

I don't have much hopes of any good candidate winning. Any necessary reforms would be extremely unpopular, so no one will advocate them.


On the contary Obama has tried to reform health care, which is necessary, because besides having high cost American health care is not necessarly as good quality other first world nations. Much of that extra cost comes from admistration. Obama has also tried to bring about cap and trade which is needed because oil is a limited resource.

It is not surpising that you do not appreciate these reforms for you have already stated the reason.

As for electing a CEO to office; well lets just say Bush was a CEO. Nuff said.

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted January 28, 2011 04:04 PM

Quote:
It's true that US health care is extremely expensive, but the quality of care is usually great. (At least, the medical procedures are.) The US also leads the world in medical research.


Am I allowed to call this point moot?
My problem with it is that the premium is not something anybody really has access to, only the filthy rich, and the filthy rich go to private clinics in Europa, Asia, or anywhere else in the world too.
If we ignore the filithy rich and their private clinics, are really there really a edge compared to the rest of the world?
If we use "fair" statistics, I really doubt it, it is compared to its own size more or less at the same level.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 29, 2011 05:46 PM

Aside from cost, I've had great experiences with US health care, and my family certainly isn't "filthy rich".
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 30, 2011 07:06 AM

@ Corribus

Why would a "successful" businessman should become PRESIDENT? For a businessman, wouldn't the place be Secretary of finances or treasury or economy or how the Secretaries are called in that areas?

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FriendOfGunnar
FriendOfGunnar


Honorable
Supreme Hero
and space cadet
posted January 30, 2011 11:52 AM

Run America like a businessman:

1) Eliminate Medicare - Old people are useless for the economy
2) Eliminate Endangered Species Act - Natural resources should be used for generating wealth, not aesthetic appreciation.
and while we're at it:
3) All national parks should become for-profit endeavors.  
4) No more foreign aid, it's just not good for the bottom line.
5)  Speaking of which, from now on anybody in the world who wants to buy American weapons should be able to.
6)  No more minimum wage.  If the citizenry get restless about low pay then you can build a large electric fence around them.  Fences are cheap.  
6) New salaries for the politicians:
President: 50 million a year
Senators: 30 million a year
Representatives: 20 million a year
why? because look at all the profit they're generating!  They deserve it!

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted January 30, 2011 03:19 PM

Quote:
Aside from cost, I've had great experiences with US health care, and my family certainly isn't "filthy rich".


I have had quite good experience with my own socialist health care over here.
"Quality of care" when above a certain level tends to be the same everywhere, the entire argument reallies on a fallancy.
Now, the truely superior healthcare tends to be private, and to  get access to that you tend to have to be filthy rich.
Ergo, what most Americans have access to is not better, but on equal level to that of most other civilized countries health cares, so it is not better.
Disagreements longer than 2 lines of text?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 30, 2011 03:45 PM

FOG:
Indeed, Medicare and the minimum wage should both be abolished.

del_diablo:
I've had experiences with universal health care as well. And it's much worse than private.
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 31, 2011 01:13 AM

Quote:
I've had experiences with universal health care as well. And it's much worse than private.
A Greyhound bus is also much worse than a Ferrari. But many people can use it, and it is much more economical to bring 75 people to a certain place by a greyhound than by Ferraris....
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted January 31, 2011 01:21 AM

I don't quite understand how personal experience is a valid argument.

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Raelag84
Raelag84


Known Hero
posted January 31, 2011 08:55 AM
Edited by Raelag84 at 08:55, 31 Jan 2011.

Quote:
I don't quite understand how personal experience is a valid argument.


It's not. I just didn't say anything because I didn't want us to get us any further off topic than I already had. My bad.

At anyrate I think Obama will win in 2012. It's really not that hard to win a presidential election when your the incumbent. If the economy is growing the year of the election you pretty much got the job no matter who runs agianst you.  

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