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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: US Presidential Race 2012
Thread: US Presidential Race 2012 This thread is 59 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 24 25 26 27 28 ... 30 40 50 59 · «PREV / NEXT»
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 09, 2012 08:31 AM
Edited by Drakon-Deus at 08:32, 09 Feb 2012.

Everyone is voting for...



Quote:
Ask NOT what your country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your country


Enough for me.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted February 09, 2012 11:09 PM

Shaking news for any Israel supporter

http://facebook.cufi.org/2011/12/ron-paul-wouldnt-have-risked-american-lives-to-end-the-holocaust/

Sorry if this is kinda old news,but nontheless interesting.
Its from december 2011.

This clearly alludes to more thinking.He would prefer an amercia in in isolation.

If I was an American,I would not want to vote for him.Really,lets become the USSR of the 21st century?

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted February 09, 2012 11:23 PM

Not invading other countries is communist? Then what did the USSR do in Afghanistan?
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
posted February 09, 2012 11:25 PM
Edited by Adrius at 23:25, 09 Feb 2012.

Quote:
Not invading liberating other countries is communist.


Fix'd.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted February 09, 2012 11:37 PM

Oh, please, Adrius. I was just pointing out how silly the comparison was, since the USSR was also "liberating" other countries in WWII.

And really, one could argue that America has conquered us, but it's a little asinine, so I won't make it. Either way, I think post-1945, America has done a lot of horrible and questionable things concerning their foreign politicy that sprung from Seraphim's attitude.

I just think it's asinine to say: "Ron Paul would like to pursue an isolationist foreign policy" and then follow up with the statement "JUST LIKE STALIN DID," because it's not true for several reasons, like economic and military policy are completely different things and during 1942-1945, the good ole USSR did what the USA was doing (both only because they were physically threatened by Japan/ Germany.)

But okay, whatever, let's all make passive-aggressive asinine statements to each other and miss each other's points entirely, like we're in a Chekhovian play or something. Can't people just come forth and say what they want to, rather than coming up with nonsensical analogies? But okay, whatever.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 10, 2012 12:56 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Not invading liberating other countries is communist.


Fix'd.


at least we didn't have to put a wall to keep our people in.

Make love not war, stop Vietnam.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted February 10, 2012 01:13 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 01:20, 10 Feb 2012.

@Dagoth Gares

Free speech pretty much?

What I meant with "The USSR of the 21st century" was that if the USA pursues Isolationism now,it might end up like the USSR in the 20th century.

The USSR appeared to me as an isolated country,of course compared to the western world.In that sense,I dont suppose that Ron Paul or anybody is a Communist or a socialist.

That is all what I meant.

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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted February 10, 2012 01:59 AM
Edited by DagothGares at 02:06, 10 Feb 2012.

Not choosing to intervene in a military way is in no way doing what the USSR did in terms of isolationism.

I don't see how not choosing to send your own soldiers to deal with issues which are not yours is the same as erecting an iron curtain.
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Darkshadow
Darkshadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted February 10, 2012 06:23 AM

Quote:
I don't see how not choosing to send your own soldiers to deal with issues which are not yours is the same as erecting an iron curtain.



Some conservatives would like to raise an iron curtain between US and Mexico, though.
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted February 10, 2012 01:26 PM

Quote:
Shaking news for any Israel supporter

http://facebook.cufi.org/2011/12/ron-paul-wouldnt-have-risked-american-lives-to-end-the-holocaust/

Sorry if this is kinda old news,but nontheless interesting.
Its from december 2011.

This clearly alludes to more thinking.He would prefer an amercia in in isolation.

If I was an American,I would not want to vote for him.Really,lets become the USSR of the 21st century?


Oh, come on! This is simply a red herring.

First of all, there is a big difference between isolationism and non-interventionism.

Second, Paul has been on the record several times contrasting WW2 with the current wars. WW2 was declared by the Congress, and therefore not an unconstitutional war. He thinks it could have been avoided by avoiding WW1, which really was the cause of WW2, but that's a different issue.

Just in the first 2 minutes in this video he explains both of the points I've mentioned above: video.


December 2011 was when Paul was leading in the polls in Iowa, and therefore the media went on overdrive with a smear campaign.
I also don't buy the last comments in the 'source' mentioned:

'Shapiro noted that when he first presented Paul's startling statement about the Holocaust to major media outlets in the US, "they were so stunned they were afraid to publish my story, and as a result it has remained unpublished until now."'
Yeah right...
He's never said anything like this before. And the media were not afraid to publish stories about how Paul "blames the US for 9/11" (which also is a red herring), but this became too much for them?
One thing is to disagree with someone's positions, but straw man arguments are below the belt.

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Shyranis
Shyranis


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 10, 2012 03:28 PM

Wow, the Ultra-right website World Net Daily is now reporting that over 20% of Republicans are leaning towards voting for Obama over any of the current running candidates (except Paul who is the only one under at 19%).

Quote:
“What must be particularly alarming to every Republican campaign regarding this nasty fight is that, even among those who say they think the nation is heading in the wrong direction, Obama still wins at least 20 percent support in head-to-head match-ups against the four remaining Republicans, and among those who said they were unsure about the overall direction of the nation, Obama wins by overwhelming percentages,” observes Wenzel.

Obama also has made tremendous inroads on enemy territory against each of the four Republicans, winning roughly 20 percent support among conservatives and even those who consider themselves to be very conservative. And, even against Mitt Romney, considered by many to be the most moderate of the GOP bunch, Obama defeats him by a large margin among moderate voters.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 10, 2012 03:40 PM

I don't get the fixation of Americans with Israel. To me, sometimes it seems like it borders obsession. It's unhealthy!

If I was American, I would consider voting for whoever would tell me that we're not gonna favor Israel anymore but ourselves only.




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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted February 10, 2012 03:59 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 16:50, 10 Feb 2012.

@bruk

I dont know about any smear campaigns but I dont see good results on him on google.


This is what I found:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/26/opinion/frum-ron-paul-newsletters/index.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2011/1229/Racist-newsletter-timeline-What-Ron-Paul-has-said


Also,I dont like him by the fact the he did not support Yugoslavia bombing campaign,call it a personal matter if you wish.

@dagoth

Quote:
Oh, please, Adrius. I was just pointing out how silly the comparison was, since the USSR was also "liberating" other countries in WWII.

right,I should have compared the isolationist america of pre WW2.


Quote:

And really, one could argue that America has conquered us, but it's a little asinine, so I won't make it.


You already said it so...Whats the point? Lets get liberated?
Quote:

Either way, I think post-1945, America has done a lot of horrible and questionable things concerning their foreign politicy that sprung from Seraphim's attitude.



No america did not make a foreign policy from my attitude.Im not in control of America.America's foreign policy is questonable,but this is unfit to discuss here.Create a new thread for this.
Quote:

I just think it's asinine to say: "Ron Paul would like to pursue an isolationist foreign policy" and then follow up with the statement "JUST LIKE STALIN DID," because it's not true for several reasons, like economic and military policy are completely different things and during 1942-1945, the good ole USSR did what the USA was doing (both only because they were physically threatened by Japan/ Germany.)


Debatable.Dunno what to say here.I have just vague knowledge on the USSR and Stalins policy.
What do you mean with
"because it's not true for several reasons, like economic and military policy are completely different things and during 1942-1945"
Please elaborate.


Quote:

But okay, whatever, let's all make passive-aggressive asinine statements to each other and miss each other's points entirely, like we're in a Chekhovian play or something. Can't people just come forth and say what they want to, rather than coming up with nonsensical analogies? But okay, whatever.



The analogy appeared logical to me,please elaborate on this.
the word asinine seems a bit harsh.Seriously,extremely foolish?
Quote:

Not choosing to intervene in a military way is in no way what the USSR did in terms of isolationism.

fixed
choosing to intervene in a military way is what the USSR did do in terms of isolationism.



Perhpas you should not make your sentences purposely or not purposely harder to read.
Either way,again,whats the point?
Check the defenition here
Isolationism
It does resemble the USSR in a sense.However,one cannot disagree that the USSR did meddle with everything.




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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted February 10, 2012 04:30 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 16:36, 10 Feb 2012.

Quote:
right,I should have compared the isolationist america of pre WW2.
Slightly better, but I don't see how the cultural domination of America would be over, if they choose to stop policing the middle east.

I'm sorry, if I offended you, but you know, America and the USSR only chose to attack the axis forces, after they were attacked by them. After this, the US of A chose to reject Monroe doctrine and have done some questionable things (invasion of Vietnam, Gulf war, etc.) (though the liberating from nazis was fun. We'd all have been communist probably, if it weren't for the US of A and the UK) The USSR didn't bother other countries so much with its military power, but that's not what was wrong with the USSR. What was wrong with the USSR was its entire economic and cultural policy. Okay, I'll shut up now. Just don't make analogies with what would be Ron Paul's policy and the USSR's policy because they'd pretty much be polar opposites.
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted February 10, 2012 04:48 PM

As far as I know, USA imposed a embargo against the Axis powers, and the axis powers relitated. But that is history.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 10, 2012 05:19 PM


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Shyranis
Shyranis


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 12, 2012 02:53 PM

Some more interesting news.

Romney Won the CPAC straw poll and the Maine caucus.

What is more interesting is that Ron Paul despite not winning many official delegates has a clever strategy in caucus states due to his extremely dedicated supporters. (Link passed on to me by a Paul fan. That's a Paul campaign person on that show talking about it)
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
posted February 12, 2012 03:09 PM

I'd vote Democratic if I were American but then again Chaos is fairer.

Or Republican but never for the Bush.

chaos or Bush are not right for a real country of the Earth. Only for Narnia and Pandora. And Mordor.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted February 13, 2012 02:36 PM

If Ron Paul would win,I would really love to see how he would achieve all of the stuff he said.
Like for example:

I wonder what he will do with +200k soldiers? Send them to mexico?
How is the population going to take all these radical changes?
How would the economy survive the gold standard?
How would the world react?
How would Israel react?
How would US foes react(Iran,Russia,China,North Korea)?



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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted February 14, 2012 02:55 AM
Edited by Brukernavn at 02:56, 14 Feb 2012.

Quote:
Romney Won the CPAC straw poll and the Maine caucus.

Actually, Maine isn't over yet. Only 84% of the vote is counted, with 200 votes separating number 1 and 2.

Quote:
If Ron Paul would win,I would really love to see how he would achieve all of the stuff he said.
Like for example:

I wonder what he will do with +200k soldiers? Send them to mexico?

After WW2 over 11 million soldiers came back. What happened to them? They spent their money home, got a job, went to collage, and gave a tremendous boost to the economy.
Paul has suggested placing a bunch of them at the borders to strengthen national security.

Quote:
How is the population going to take all these radical changes?

He won't get elected unless the population wants them. But what's radical about not spending more than you have and following the constitution?

Quote:
How would the economy survive the gold standard?

It won't be in his power as president to just revert to the gold standard over night, and he's never advocated that thought either. What he does want to do is:
1) A full audit of the FED - who are they giving all the money to?
2) Legalize competition - if someone distrust the dollar, they are allowed to use other currencies. This would be a market-correction to inflation, instead of the centralized correction they have now, which is not working too well.
3) Over time, if the market controlled correction works, the FED could gradually be phased out.

Quote:
How would the world react?

The US isn't exactly popular in the world at the moment, their credit rating has dropped, and they're bombing more countries than ever.
If they showed a more sensible approach to spending, their credit rating would rise again. And if they stopped bullying so many countries they would have less enemies.

Quote:
How would Israel react?

What do you mean? He advocates exactly what Israel itself wants America to do. As Benjamin Netanyahu said on the house floor in 2011:

"My friends, you don't need to do nation building in Israel. We're already built. You don't need to export democracy to Israel. We've already got it. And you don't need to send american troops to Israel. We defend ourselves!"
Here is the video

Quote:
How would US foes react(Iran,Russia,China,North Korea)?

You mean, if they don't start a war with them? I think all parties will be pleased, except perhaps for the military industrial complex.

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